Price Isn't Everything

SkyeSpider

Spider Queen
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Just to follow up that last post: I understand what you're saying about the snakes. I've paid hundreds of dollars for my bearded dragons, and am currently saving enough for a female sunfire ($2000!!).

I know a quality animal when I see one, and love EVERY one I get (especially my curly hairs, pink toes, and my desert blonde). Price is almost never a factor.

That said, I still bought seven G. pulchras when I saw the $5 price tag. Why? I've wanted a G. pulchra since I started collecting spiders back in '96. When I saw I could buy more than one, I bought more than one. All this said, further down the line, I'd still pay $50+ for an adult female.

It was just a matter of the spider being available when I wanted it. From what I've gathered from the company, they were only selling them for $5 at the show, and don't really have many left (yes, I wanted more).

The fact is, when you go to a reptile show, you're going to get good deals, or you'll be able to talk these people down in price. You're paying to get in. You're probably paying to travel there. You have to wade through anoying crowds. You usually don't want to be there (and leave once you get what you want). Because of these, the dealers lower their prices. I saw Uromastyx that normally go for $300 selling for $80. Does this hurt the hobby? No. It just means you can get a deal on them for one day. I saw Blizzard leopard geckos that normally sell for $200 selling for $50. Does that hurt the sales of Blizzards? Hell no, it doesn't. :)

What I'm saying is that you can't judge the trends in a hobby by a "one day sale." Things will always balance out.

-Bryan
 

Phillip

Arachnoprince
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Dont get me wrong Bryan..

I am in no way saying you're wrong to buy them hell I would have bought them all pulchra are awesome and you would be a fool to pass up the deal.
I am also in no way trying to come across as upset at anyone so don't blow anything out of proportion anyone. I just see another side to the arguement is all and I felt it was overlooked. I am by no means launching a convert the masses crusade.
If everyone feels that what their species costs means nothing then great. To an extent I agree totally. Pet wise it certainly makes no difference. It's just hard for you to see my side if you haven't been on it. I am 1st and foremost into this hobby because of my desire to have and observe all the species that I can. I love em all and want every one of them but without having an unlimited bank account the best I can hope for is to have a few good breedings and be able to trade for or sell babies for enough to pick up extra species from time to time without having to dip into the ol wallet which isn't always an option. Now not only does the breeding thing happen maybe 25 to 50 percent of the time but you have to contend with imports so theres a good bit of money you lose right there. Then you have the folks who undercut like mad and I dont mean a few bucks I mean when you see something for $30 one week and some guy has them for $10 the next. Stupid question but whatever happened to $20 isn't that still a good bit cheaper yeah but I guess just not cheap enough. It truly slays me to watch it happen knowing that the incentive to breed decreases with some species because of it. I mean why would anyone have tried to breed the cobalt red rumps when adults were never much over $20ish where was the point in putting in the time and effort only to have babies worth a couple of bucks at best when the same effort could give you baby greenbottle or versis. Now by the time I manage to get any production baby wise out of my 3 year and probably 6 or so thousand investment of time and money the end results are watching the species lose value one at a time. Yeah that does take a bit of the satisfaction out of it but fortunately my collection is just that my collection not my means of income. ( thank the spider gods for that ) Bottom line I keep because I love em not because of their dollar value but it does sting when I'm willing to drop big bucks on one to have it 1st and next year they start coming in and lo and behold now you can have em for a third what I paid. I admit that part sucks and that's a large part of why I hate to see the price cutting as bad as it is. Anyway I'm done ranting about it and like it was said earlier it is nice to see a good attitude remain here unlike the jabs and such common from you know where.
Phil
 

johns

Arachnoknight
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Re: Dont get me wrong Bryan..

nice to see a good attitude remain here unlike the jabs and such common from you know where.


Exactamundo!!=D
 

belewfripp

Arachnobaron
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Aug 17, 2002
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I don't think $5 Ts all around is a good idea or ideal, unless there were millions of people buying them to support the ridiculously low price. You are right about rarity driving some prices: for example Hysterocrates hercules. They are bigger than gigas, but essentially the same in all other respects. They would not sell for lots of $$$ unless they were rare. However, I'm not looking for the prices to drop. Now, lessened rarity would be nice, in a way, because it might suggest that captive breeding is going on, which is beneficial to the survival of the spiders, but if there is a rare T I want, and it is expensive, then so be it, if I get the money, I will get it. I guess my point is that yes, some rare spiders interest me, but not because they are rare. Xenesthis monstrosa, for example, is pretty and huge, and I'm partial to black-ish colored S. American species anyhow. It also is pretty pricey and really rare, and I'm willing to pay the price to get one, but the price/rarity isn't what makes me want it.

Adrian

P.S. to Philip: nice photos you've been posting recently, thanks for posting them.
 

Rourke

ArachnoProletariat
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May 10, 2004
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342
Mr. Gearheart seems to be critical of anyone who would sell tarantulas below market value. What I am curious about right now is the current market value of a Poecilotheria subfusca spiderling, because Gearheart has the cheapest advertised price I've seen in a long time.

I am not trying to stir up trouble here, but it would be great if TG and/or other dealers/knowledgeable individuals could comment on this. Is this a simple case of hypocrisy, or is my perception of the market value for this species dramatically skewed? Thanks.

Rourke
 

Xanzo

Arachnoknight
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Why would you dredge up a thread from 2002?
 

Rourke

ArachnoProletariat
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Xanzo said:
Why would you dredge up a thread from 2002?
What a ridiculous question! Why does anyone post anything? To ask a question, or to respond to one, most generally. With my last post, I was asking one. With this post, I am (hopefully) answering one.
 

xenesthis

Arachnobaron
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P. subfusca pricing

Fair question.

In my opinion, the last P. subfusca that were breed in the U.S. were sold too high. That is the price ($200 or more each) that U.S. hobbyists remember.

Granted P. subfusca is extremely rare and doesn't put out many slings compared to other Pokes, if the species is breed here in the U.S., the price should be significantly lower than P. subfusca imported from Europe due to import costs and overheard related to bringing them in.

Bottom line: P. subfusca will remain a high-priced species, but if bred in the U.S., they should be much, much cheaper than if imported from Europe.

My original intent of this "OLD" thread (note: old!), was talking about how in recent years many hobbyists are buying only for lowest price. That should not be the no. 1 criteria for a purchase. People will not value a species if they do that and others look at it only in value at the time of purchase. It's the cheapening effect that hurts our hobby. Look at the reptile trade and what happened to the green iguana. People won't even spend descent money on a good book or cage for one because they are so cheap and people treat them as such.

Todd
 
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Sheri

Arachnoking
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Dec 29, 2003
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Hey Todd,
So the slings you have hatched now were from one of your sacs?
Or bought from someone else that hatched them out in the US?
I can tell you that in the Cdn market, subfusca is going for a higer price tag than the average US tag (not including in the average your recent pricing).
 

Rourke

ArachnoProletariat
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Thanks for your reply, Todd.

So, in your opinion (and anyone else's), can I expect sub-$100 subfusca in the near future, consistenly (in the US)?
 

Xanzo

Arachnoknight
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It certainly saddens me to see these majestic creatures mistreated, but as a poor college student, the cheaper I can get them the better. I will often forego food in order to get the species of spiders that I find attractive :)
 

Wade

Arachnoking
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Aug 16, 2002
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I think it bears mentioning that much has happened since this thread began in 02 that has largely proven that Todd was correct, at least about the motives and morality of some of the "low end" dealers. Many of the dealers who were selling spiders at rock-bottom prices are now out of business, and one or two others have been since revealed to be flat-out scam artists.

Price is going to fluctuate wildy on some species regardless of dealer practices, however. While Poecilotheria (and other lower-producing, fast growing species) may hold higher prices (or come down slowly), slow growing species that produce huge sacs may go up and down within the same year. This is simply because of supply and demand. If even half a dozen hobbyist succesfully produce a given species in a year, this will result in THOUSANDS of spiders of that species entering the market that year. If that species is a seasonal producing species like Grammostola or Brachypelma, than they'll all hit the market at the same time! There is no way this won't cause a dip in prices. Even if every major dealer keeps them at the same price, the hobbyists will be left with little choice but to sell them at whatever price they can get. I don't see any real way around this, as more and more hobbyists become proficient at breeding their pets, these species will probably be distributed in the hobby through trades rather than sales. For the prospective breeder who looks at the project from an investment standpoint, it seems that the lower producing, fast growing species are the best choice. A include fast-growing as a criteria because as Todd mentioned earlier, spiderlings with a little size on them sell for more.

I bred A. versicolor a couple of years ago. I was disipointed by the low price most dealers were willing to buy them for, but I sold a lot of them anyway. I came to regret this, because I discovered that after only a few months I was able to sell the ones I kept for 4 or 5 times what they had gone for before directly to other hobbyists. Live and learn!

Wade
 

tkn0spdr

Arachnosquire
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Sep 23, 2004
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Bottom line I keep because I love em not because of their dollar value but it does sting when I'm willing to drop big bucks on one to have it 1st and next year they start coming in and lo and behold now you can have em for a third what I paid.
While I don't think that the market should be flooded with cheap anything, a gradual decrease in price is to be expected in anything that is on the market long enough. You are always going to pay a premium to be the first kid on your block with a new toy.

I would dearly love to add a P. metallica to my private collection but right now my situation won't allow me to spend that much on a new pet. In a few years time I imagine that the price will be lower and then I'll have one. I won't value it less because I paid less for it, and it won't be less beautiful because I waited 2 or 3 years to buy one either.
 

WYSIWYG

SpiderLoco
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Jun 18, 2003
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489
King_Looey said:
If you had the chance to buy a spider, and you had a choice. $50 or $5. which one would you take?
It would depend on the spider.....the size, the species, the condition, etc...

And it would depend on how much money I had to spend at the time the
choice became available. ;)

Wysi
 

Steve Nunn

Arachnoprince
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Aug 30, 2002
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Hi,
One question, who in the US is selling the new blue spiders for over $400.00?? In all fairness I have no idea who is selling them, but I am curious.

Many thanks,
Steve
 

Sheri

Arachnoking
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Steve Nunn said:
Hi,
One question, who in the US is selling the new blue spiders for over $400.00?? In all fairness I have no idea who is selling them, but I am curious.

Many thanks,
Steve
Botar, and I believe they are $400 even.
 

Steve Nunn

Arachnoprince
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sheri said:
Botar, and I believe they are $400 even.
Thanks Sheri, regardless of price I'd still think them worth it!! :) And Charles knows his stuff too, nice guy.

Steve
 

Andrew vV

Arachnobaron
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May 11, 2003
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There are a few US dealers that have them, Botar, SSW, and Swifts....

Cheers,
Andrew
 

Steve Nunn

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Andrew vV said:
There are a few US dealers that have them, Botar, SSW, and Swifts....
Thanks Andrew, I don't know the guys from SSW that well, but Kelly certainly has the knowledge and experience to back the sale up. Again, if I had the means (not just the cash) I'd hand it over in a heartbeat.

Steve
 

Sheri

Arachnoking
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Steve Nunn said:
Thanks Andrew, I don't know the guys from SSW that well, but Kelly certainly has the knowledge and experience to back the sale up. Again, if I had the means (not just the cash) I'd hand it over in a heartbeat.

Steve

Yes, they are an amazing species.
I have 2 and I am clamouring to try and find a way to get more!
 
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