Potential hobby setbacks

[pocock1899]

Yeah and at current rates of forest loss , never know when or how this species could show up again . Or go extinct in the wild .
Very unfortunate these spiders could die in a police warehouse due to confiscation. They are not prepared or capable of taking car of animals. In Africa rare rhinos died due to poor care, and Ts are much more fragile.

I find odd that sometimes people have such strong, yet uninformed opinions.
I know for a fact that USFWS doesn't have any "police warehouses". Where does that idea even come from?
When live animals are seized, they are usually moved to a facility that can take care of them properly. Zoos, Aquariums, Universities, etc. all donate space and time to care for seized animals.
I've seen local USFWS officers drive hours to take animals to a facility, rather than risk packing and shipping a fragile animal.

And I don't know that the pet trade is all the much better than what awaits some animals in the wild. Where trees housing Poecilotheria are cut down to collect whatever spiders survive the fall, but also destroying that colony forever. Or Pandinus that are dug up with heavy equipment, destroying that habitat forever.

The pet trade is not all flowers and roses. Many animals died before the ones we have in the hobby got here. Personally I'd rather see Brazil conserve the species in it's natural environment than reward poachers for stealing a country's natural resources for profit. And make no mistake, you may love your spiders (I know I love mine), but they are brought to us by people in the supply chain who are more interested in money that the lives of the animals.

 

[Vanessa]

The pet trade is not all flowers and roses. Many animals died before the ones we have in the hobby got here. Personally I'd rather see Brazil conserve the species in it's natural environment than reward poachers for stealing a country's natural resources for profit. And make no mistake, you may love your spiders (I know I love mine), but they are brought to us by people in the supply chain who are more interested in money that the lives of the animals.

We had a recent situation in Canada where a couple of vacationers were smuggling in Phormictopus, presumably cancerides, on their bodies on a flight. They were caught when one of the tarantulas escaped. All of them were destroyed.
What was the point of that, exactly? They are a species who are ubiquitous in the hobby, inexpensive, and easy to breed already captive individuals. The point was greed - plain and simple. The people responsible did nothing to conserve a species or contribute in any positive way to the hobby - they were greedy and self serving and a detriment to the entire hobby in Canada and all those who are trying to improve things within the confines of the law.
While some people might have a more altruistic agenda, many do not.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

So true government should just allow legal ways to import/ export them . No government has saved sharks , or edible sea life might go extinct soon. Due to mega sized long lines ships.
Hope they protect Ts better!! Poachers in Africa are practically destroying all big wildlife, for trophy hunters. Sad times , and ivory.
Many Australian species gone already irreplaceable.

 

[StampFan]

I am by nature not an over-reactor. I've followed this issue in the last day here and elsewhere.

So one US dealer made one post about one importer that had an issue with one import from one country enforcing a law that was already on the books. And in some cases people are acting the like the government is going to come to their home today and confiscate their LP. Social media is terrible that way. Mass panic based on little to no solid information reacting in a premature fashion.

So far the only people this is an issue for right now are the people directly involved, those that put down $ and are not getting a spider, and the dealer/importer who is having the issue.

If this is a larger issue it is going to take some time to figure out.

So until then enjoy your spiders, don't drink the Kool-Aid (oooohhhhhh yeeeaaaahhhhhhhh!) and stay away from this until *your* dealer gives you some particular, timely, relevant and factual information about how it might affect you and your next purchase.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

Hope they can protect them In the wild , modern cities wipe out so much wildlife just In building process. We might have a 6th massive extinction event according to some scientists. Dono if there crazy or correct any info on this true?

So much disinformation out there don’t know what to believe!!!

 

[Greasylake]

People still haven't learned their lessons about pre-ordering. Why would you buy something without the security that you're actually going to get the product and that it'll arrive as advertised? I'll never understand why people do this, but I'm pretty sure they're gonna keep doing it, even the people who lost money on this fiasco. I can't even justify businesses doing it either, you're not selling a product in a preorder you're selling a promise. "We promise it'll arrive by X month and yeah, we don't currently have it in our hands but we know the people that do!"

 

[Olan]

Under the Lacey Act, "it is unlawful to import, export, sell, acquire, or purchase fish, wildlife or plants that are taken, possessed, transported, or sold: 1) in violation of U.S. or Indian law, or 2) in interstate or foreign commerce involving any fish, wildlife, or plants taken possessed or sold in violation of State or foreign law." Read that last sentence carefully....
This means that if an animal is illegally possessed in violation of foreign (Brazilian) law, then it is unlawful to import it into the United States.

Ok, at first I thought “well, since we can’t import Brazilian species, I guess we Americans better figure out how to reliably breed G. pulchras”.
But the wording of the Lacey act, and your statement that Brazil has never allowed export of spiders, suggests that even within the United States we cannot sell any Brazilian species, or even “acquire” them. If this is enforced, there’s going to be a lot of species that disappear from the hobby, it seems to me. But maybe only a few marquee species will be targeted, like T. seladonia.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

And if Brazil dosnt do a good enough job they could go extinct in the wild .so I hope they are successful, poaching still happens . You need a standing army to guard the woods haha.
Fingers crossed they find a reasonable way to import captive bread or even lasiodoras might end up rare.

 

[cold blood]

No government has saved sharks , or edible sea life might go extinct soon.

Well that's just not true.....most sea life has protecting regulations...sharks have some significant protecting legislation...the US has the most restrictive shark protection laws in the world.

https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/national/laws-and-policies/shark-conservation-act

Many other countries also have restrictions protecting sharks....

http://www.sharksavers.org/en/our-programs/shark-sanctuaries/learn-more/laws-protecting-sharks


Lots of other sea life is under heavy restrictions as well. Almost anything you can catch in the ocean or inland has restrictions that protect fish from over-harvest or elimination....as well as illegal transportation.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

They say 100-200 million sharks are killed each year , could be extinct in just a decade two. Maybe not in USA but Asia kills em for fins. These sharks might be getting killed illegally tho .https://blog.nationalgeographic.org...international-conference-on-shark-protection/

 

[Chris LXXIX]

They say 100-200 million sharks are killed each year , could be extinct in just a decade two. Maybe not in USA but Asia kills em for fins. These sharks might be getting killed illegally tho .https://blog.nationalgeographic.org...international-conference-on-shark-protection/

Maybe not in USA?

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

R.I.P. sharks the new dinosaurs. Enjoy shark week while it’s hear I guess . I meant they would go extinct last in USA coastlines probably.

 

[Paul1126]

Doesn't the dark den have one of these spiders?

 

[Greasylake]

Doesn't the dark den have one of these spiders?

Yes, and I think tarantula Dan has two of them.

 

[StampFan]

T seladonia was on the cover of the BTS journal, so that automatically makes folks think they *have* to have one. Silly, really.

 

[Vinny2915]

I really liked them until I checked out their price tag. Haha it literally (not joking) costs my rent.....for something that may not even survive, not enough is even known on them for me to feel confident raising them. When I did some introspection I just liked em because the novelty factor, it is new. When I got past that it really wasn't anything, they are so small and the colors are flashy but the patterns I don't find all that striking. *Rant over* I'm just gonna name it the Brazilian rent tarantula.

 

[KezyGLA]

Would Lacey’s act not apply to Chilean species and South African baboon species too?

Imagine if their governments pushed US to enforce the law too

My, oh my.

 

[Gaherp]

Lacey already includes species protected in their native lands here in the US. This is not a newfangled thing. Other animals that would be included on this, but for some reason do not get enforced are multiple dartfrogs, snakes, lizards, and a mess of other things. Brazil mysteriously turned a blind eye for years on species like A. galactonutus, and many others. I find it hard to believe this was not somehow provoked, because I can find handfuls of companies selling animals native to only brazil without really trying. I swear if USFW or any government really had intent they could just use google for 30 minutes to make a case. This is truly a redundant law and should be revised. Yes tons of species were smuggled out of brazil for many, many years. Do I think lacey act should be invoked on species that have been in the hobby forever, No.

 

[Vanessa]

With the new program that has been introduced in Mexico with their native tarantulas, there is an opportunity to roll the same program out to other countries. With some of the right people on it, it doesn't have to be the end of these species in the hobby.
Mexico breeds their native species - with a portion introduced back into the wild and a portion going into the pet trade. This is a win-win situation all round. They can eliminate much of the poaching, they are actively reintroducing struggling species into the wild, and Mexicans are generating revenue from the sale of the pet trade portion. I don't see any huge downfalls to this program.
Sure, it might take a few years for the bugs to be worked out and for the full benefits of the program to be obvious, but I don't see why it can't be an option to approach Brazil, Chile, and other countries who ban exports, with a similar program now that the precedent has been set. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing scenario.

 

[sdsnybny]

With the new program that has been introduced in Mexico with their native tarantulas, there is an opportunity to roll the same program out to other countries. With some of the right people on it, it doesn't have to be the end of these species in the hobby.
Mexico breeds their native species - with a portion introduced back into the wild and a portion going into the pet trade. This is a win-win situation all round. They can eliminate much of the poaching, they are actively reintroducing struggling species into the wild, and Mexicans are generating revenue from the sale of the pet trade portion. I don't see any huge downfalls to this program.
Sure, it might take a few years for the bugs to be worked out and for the full benefits of the program to be obvious, but I don't see why it can't be an option to approach Brazil, Chile, and other countries who ban exports, with a similar program now that the precedent has been set. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing scenario.

This is all good except the fact the trees they are logging are worth far more than this hobby will ever produce in revenues. The countries involved need better habitat protection before this is feasible or there wont be anything left to introduce the produced stock into