Poecilotheria

Code Monkey

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So saying that I don't think people actually disrespect you is disrespecting and insulting you?

I see... no, no I don't.

I will apologise for starting this whole age thing. We could have had this disagreement without me ever bringing up that point. The only reason I did was that I think it bears on your opinion, but in hindsight it drags up too many preconceptions in everybody's minds.
 

Code Monkey

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Originally posted by Botar
I think you've taken offense to CM's post (fear not, you are not alone :D ), but I don't think he meant it as offensive. CM is one of those people who had a minus mark in the "Plays well with others" category on his grade card... and that was in college.
Heh, I've got an uncanny knack for saying something that's probably inappropriate enough already in the most offensive manner possible without meaning to. I am, to put it mildly, a bit blunt about the edges when it comes to doing things gracefully.
 

skinheaddave

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Originally posted by Code Monkey
Precisely because that's around when I realised that I really didn't know jack about life and never was going to,
.....
EDIT: Did I set my threshhold too arbitrarily high? Yes, I admit it.
That kind of sums it right up, doesn't it? Trying to assign any threshhold, much less one based on a single reliable data point, is a hopeless endevour. People mature at different rates, though age does definitely have something to do with it. You'd be better trying to draw us some sort of a probability distribution than just picking an age. Then we can argue over mean and variance. ;)


People like you are evidence that not everyone below 26 is still clueless (something tells me your lack of drinking probably contributed to your accelerated maturity, though ;)).
Thank you. I think you've got your cause and effect backwards, though. I don't drink because I had already had my vertebrae welded together by the time someone is supposed to get into all that nonsense. Who needs their head screwed on when they have nice, inflexible, proper-but-boring, welded steel to do the trick?

Cheers,
Dave
 

Phillip

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not to continue the debate but...

Even though I have to agree that a pokie may not be the best choice for a younger inexperienced keepr I do feel that everyone is projecting more danger on the pokie than is needed. There still are no deaths from pokie bites and yes I know the effects can be unpleasant but still they have not proven to be lethal. The family dog can do far more damage to someone than a pokie bite is going to and no one cries wolf about having them around. That said I agree that they shouldn't be kept by the inexperienced but I do feel that far too many people are making them out to be far worse than they are in reality. Especially when you factor in their reluctance to actually bite. Now again I am not saying that a pokie bite is a fun experience but it is not going to kill you and that is why I have a hard time understanding so many folks being intimidated by them. Let's try to keep things in perspective and keep in mind that all the folks who have written bite reports on pokies are still here. Yes they had some pain, cramps and nausea but regardless none were seriously injured.

Phil
 
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Nixy

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I have a 17 year old son.
he's very responsable.
Very level headed.
I trust him to make good decisions and I trust in the fact he has a good and generous heart.
I'm proud of him.
Is he an adult?
No.
He has a long way to go and a lot of hard knocks, hard choices and hard roads before he knows what i know.
And I hope to gods he never has some of the lessons I did.
I respect the fact that he knows some hings I don't.
But the fact of the matter is.
I am older, I have been there and done that. I have made the mistakes I see him heading for a good bit of the time and I do my best to save him the more harsh realizations and try to let him learn from me.
Brandon.
You prolly know more about T's then I do.
I just started in this hobby not long ago.
I respect your greater experience and learning in This.
My argument that James shouldn't get a poke wasn't based on Fear.
I don't fear our T's and I would not fear a poke.
Respect the hell out of it.
Yes. But I respect the hell out of our avics.
We have two hot species.
I keep them very very carefuly contained.
I do not work inside their tanks while any of my family is at home.
I keep them very carefuly locked up.
Not out of fear. But out of respect.
I teach my children that respect.
I.
Won't own a poke right now and I am 35 years old.
Am I responsable?
Hell yes.
I was pregnant at your age.
That was iresponsable yes.
But I worked my ass off and did it on my own.
Raised my kids right.
I know I did because I see the persons they are now and I actualy give myself credit.
Is my son responsable?
In a good ways yes.
I let him watch his little sisters and trust him to use good judgment when not at home.
Will he own a poke?
Nope. he wants one.
But no.
Why?
Because as much as I want one and he wants one and yes even my little ones want one.
Murphy has a way of watching and capering up at the worst times and tagging somene.
I have two five year olds.
They do great so far with the T's.
They don;t mess with them without me.
But ANYTHING can happen in a split second.
I am a very very responsable mother.
And I gareentee you that I am more responsable them you.
Not because your 17. But because I have and do handle more responsabilities and have proven myself capable of such Over and Over and over again.
That has taught me that one can know a great deal about something. And Never be an expert.
the experts arn't experts, because one doesn't stop learning so one can Never be a true and failess expert.
<Crap> happens, it happens at th worst times.

James wants a Poke, Yep. I do too. But having so much responsability has taught me that I have to look beyond my own wants and desires and look around me at the people I live with.

I lost a Bracy for two days.
I am neither a stupid Or careless woman. A chain of events took place and <crap> decided to happen.
I was lucky to have found him saftly.

James being advised against a poke isn't an age issue. Or a maturity issue. It's a James has other people in his life that needs to be considered over his own desires issue.

You stated. "I have seen James type that he doesn't hold his tarantulas often, and im assure that he wouldn’t hold his pokey, so I see no reason to detour him of it. Many "Inexperienced" people own the genus and have never been bitten."

So what. I went ten years without getting stung by a wasp and one day last summer it happened and landed me i the hospital.
Last week a 16 year old girl died at my sons school because he boyfriend, a usualy very good very responsable driver that I've allowed MY daughter to drive with. Hit an odd patch of ice and rolls the car into a tree, killing the girl with him. He was 18.
My husband snapped his back in a freak ccident at work doing something he did Every day.

James needs to and from what I have seen of his posts, Is putting his head before his desires.
But he needs to put his family before all that.
No he doesn't hold his T's much. But honey. I'm sure if that time when murphy shows up knocking on his door and decideds to let a T loose in the house. I'm betting James would rther it be something a great bit less potentialy harmful to his family.
We are saying not to put the people you love at a greater risk.
basicly you told him. Do it.
You don't handle your T's so Your safe.
When did you think beyond that?
You know.
I never once considered your age or looked.
Don't complain about stareo typing then go on to stareo type others.
If you know so much then shouldn't you know 20 slings for a few months does Not equal One agressive full grown aboreal.
For Anyone At Any age.
That the grater the number of tarantulas owned increases the chance of an escape?
That Nothig Ever garentees that if he never handles and keeps the lid locked he won;t get bit.
That at 13 he is Not a 200 pound adult that can better handle getting bitten at all.
And that you don't run pell mell into something and skip all the steps, jump to the top and hope no one gets hurt because they skipped all the education between between.
Slings are cute.
But they grow up.
If james is smart. And he has shown he is.
He will let his slings grow up.
Learn from That experience. Then move on to a greater chalange.
It's not like it's going to take twenty years.
After his Psalmopoeus all grow up and he has a taste of dealing with a fast bitey aboreal. And after he has Totaly educated the people he lives with, namely his paents. On the risk of those aboreals. And after he has gotten their permision. because by gods he Is a child and it;s a parents Job to make sure they don;t make snap jusgments that could get themselves hurt badly or someone else.
Then yeah.
he can go for the poke.
If he does it now.
Then it's Not matura responsable decision making he is running on.
It's pure childlike, Wanna's, and that kind of thoughtless selfish way of doing things can be found at any age. Why encroage it?
Ah well.
I'm rambling.
Flame away.
I'm going to bed.
 

Nixy

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Phil.
How many of those bite reports were written by or for the 35 pound sibling?
I'm Not demonising the species.
The whole Point is to Think about the people around you.
Everyone knows that venom that can hurt someone can kill someone else regardless of the species.
I'm sure most peole here don't have an issue with wasps and would probably advise someone else that they are relativly harmess even if they inflict an uncomfortable sting.
It's also true that any venom works to a greater degree on people that are a great deal smaller or older or just physicaly weaker in the sense of health then most of the people that have ever written a bite report.

I also would never advise someone going out and buying a 200 pound dog with a little one in the house, much less a big one with a Clear history of agression and harmful effects on adults.

It's not an issue about Pokes.
It's an issue really about how much someone Thinks outside the range of their own desires and takes into consideration all the variatbles involved.

20 T's increase the chance of someone getting bitten.
the chance of someone geting bitten increases with the addition of any and all individuals. Be them human or pet.
If someone Doesn't live alone they Have to consider the people aorund them.
Anything Less is Totaly and completly irresponsable and pretty much answers any question about whether they should have the species or not.

I think James has a good head on his shoulders though. And will make the right decision for the Right reason.
 

minax

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Re: not to continue the debate but...

Originally posted by Phillip
Even though I have to agree that a pokie may not be the best choice for a younger inexperienced keepr I do feel that everyone is projecting more danger on the pokie than is needed. There still are no deaths from pokie bites and yes I know the effects can be unpleasant but still they have not proven to be lethal.

Phil
Phil, was'nt there a "anecdotal" report of a pokie killing someone in India? Even if true, It would be not comparable to the record of adverse reaction to bee stings( I think I heard a month ago that bee stings kill at least a 1,000 people a year). Of course people come in contact with bees much more than pokies. I just wish more research is available on the venom of the pokes and some others. So many variables, such as the amount of venom injected, the individual persons sensitivity, ect. Have you ever heard of this report Phil? I know from "Swifty" that your opinion is very respected, I just wondered if you have ever heard of this unsubstantiated story? Man! those pokes and a couple others are DAMN FAST!!:D IT would be very easy for one to get out of control when it is being moved if it gets spooked, especially if one is inexperienced and without a good plan........and a calm and quick demeanor!;) As people have said before, they "teleport", not move, when spooked!:D
 
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Steve Nunn

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Re: Re: not to continue the debate but...

You know I've been keeping for a long time now, over ten years (I know, it's nothing compared to some). I've kept funnel-webs, many of them. I now have a baby, and not a single funnel-web in the house for this reason. I consider myself pretty good with the spiders, but not that good that I can comfortably keep something that may do serious damage to those I love, regardless of how low the risk may be. Anyway, it means nothing, I'm rambling ;)

I still get surprised by the agility of the T's I've kept for over ten years and they are all terrestrial. I've had 7 inch spiders scale their enclosure and get out before I could do a thing about it. I got them back in, but only after great effort, I'm still learning. I've seen an 8 inch pokie in full flight before and there was no way in hell that the professional keeper could stop it getting out, which it did with ease. The thing is these big arboreals aren't just highly venomous, they're extremely agile and I think the important thing here is James hasn't been keeping for that long, so how is he gonna handle an escaped pokie? I think James is a great learner, but there are better ways to learn then having to deal with a bad situation like this. Fact of the mater is Darrin Vernier's bite report is typical and ANYONE, regardless of age, should be aware of what they are getting into before purchasing one. I brought the funnel-web issue up because it's relative. The pokie is considered one of the most venomous theraphosid genera there are, they just ain't no redknee, it's relative, so please treat them with the respect they deserve, no more(eg. hype), no less(Darrin's bite report). Read the reports and understand their behaviour. When you feel you can handle the worst case scenario, buy one, if you can't, think twice.

There's lots to read, lots to understand before buying even so much as a rosie, the pokie is at the other end of the scale and frankly I think it's just downright stupidity to just jump in and buy one without knowing the possible problems that could arise. It's not just a guess, we will all see some more bite reports from pokies in the future as too many people see a "pretty spider" to add to the collection of one terrestrial that's sitting on their mantle. I understand people going crazy and stating these things are killers, they aren't and it's highly unlikely anyone will ever die, just give 'em the respect they deserve, that's all.

Steve
 

Valael

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I'm 19. I have two brothers -- 12 and 17.


My younger brother brings friends over to view my collection.


I also have two P. Regalis. One at around 3 inches, another at around 4.5 - 5 inches.


I think, besides the potency of their venom, Poecilotheria are so vastly over rated in terms of danger level that it's almost laughable.


I've never had anything even come close to being a close call. Even when I open the cage to feed it.

I realize there's a danger if someone gets bit, but that's whY I simply don't allow it to leave the cage.


My largest is in a 10 gallon with one of those folding "tough tops" with the latches (And duct tape on one side of it).

I'd personally have to disagree with the common opinion here. As long as you aren't a fool and use your head around it, I don't see any danger. Every bite report I've read has involved attempts to handle it. Even to transfer it or catch it IF it happens to get free, you don't have to handle it. You can even protect yourself with thick leather gloves if you're that paranoid.
 

Aboreal Rayne

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Get real guys..

I think, besides the potency of their venom, Poecilotheria are so vastly over rated in terms of danger level that it's almost laughable. - Valael

Ya know, I agree with Valael, and Brandon... Sorry guys but I really think many people do overexagerate exactly how dangerous pokes are. I know they are considered to be more "Hot" then some other T's, still. I can relate Valael, I'm nineteen as well, with a seventeen year old brother. I have a few Pokies, and hell yeah they're fast...but so is my dog, and my cat. Point is my family loves my spiders and I frequntly catch my brother, mom, or dad feeding or showing them to friends...and many of you may frown on this, as they are viewed as dangerous, but mine would much rather hide then try to run out of the cage. In fact I've never even had one try!! Further more my whole family has been educated on the family Poecilotheria, and are concience of the dangers. If yall stoppped being scared of them, and did the same- your family could have just as much fun with them!! They are animals, not monsters and simply need respect. James read up on um, do your home work and forget the non-sense people are drilling you with, get the pokie man. Just understand what you posses, and make shure your family understands what it is. That's final- No more Pokie bashin damn it.
 

genious_gr

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Hi.
I tried to resist posting but I couldn't, sorry if what I'll write don't make sense but I have a terrible headache and can't function right at the moment....So, here are some thoughts my 16->17 year old mind made as I read the post.

1. If someone bought a new car, would anyone tell him "If you have an accident, blablabla..."?
2. Nixy (just an example) has 2 very young kids. Noone told her not to buy a T' cause it could harm her children.Why can't T_L keep the spiders away from his younger brothers??
3. I'm also about to get a Pokie and your posts have scared the S#!T out of me!!!!!!!!!!!but I'll be taking all precautions and definately wont handle it so..anyway, by the time it gets big enought I'll be 18 ;P

Thats it, no more thoughts, (guess its the d..s headache...

Cheers...
 

rapunzel

Arachnodemon
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Re: Get real guys..

Further more my whole family has been educated on the family Poecilotheria, and are concience of the dangers. If yall stoppped being scared of them, and did the same- your family could have just as much fun with them!! They are animals, not monsters and simply need respect. James read up on um, do your home work and forget the non-sense people are drilling you with, get the pokie man. Just understand what you posses, and make shure your family understands what it is. That's final- No more Pokie bashin damn it. [/B]


please, enlighten me. How do you teach small children NOT to touch the "No-No" that is totally OFF-Limits?

I'd like to know. I have a hard time keeping my youngest out of her stepsisters nailpolish. Nailpolish that doesnt pose a danger to a twentyfive pound child.
Tell her "No"? oh, wish I had thought of that.

The point of this thread was not to "pokie-bash". If the pokes are worth keeping, I am sure they will still be around when someone is responsible only for their ownselves, and when the 'entire' family can be old enough to agree that they can respect the potential dangers. Age doesn't really account for the whole thing. I don't think that just because someone is "ten, sixteen, seventeen, or forty" gives them the immediate okay to do or not to do something. I am thirty four and do not know as much about T's as the little nine year old girl, whose name I cannot recall at this time, that was on Jay Leno. The main thing to consider when adding a potentially dangerous ANYTHING, be it a mean dog, a fractious cat, a tarantula..is to consider ALL the factors, including who lives in your house,etc. If you can cover all those areas, then you make the decision.
 

Nixy

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Please don't take this as an insult because it isn't.

Brandon, Valael,Aboreal Rayne,genious_gr.

It's the difference between having younger siblings and BEING a parent. Yes genious_gr I have children AND inverts. I have also stated that I am not ready for a poke For this reason. I have two fast bities and I do Not deal with them with anyone around. I take excessive precautions to ensure that when the kids are home they Stay completly and totaly locked up.
I can make a judgement call about Myself and My children because I have been a parent for 17 years, before that I had several more years of baby sitting, which is a short term responsability. That in no way prepares Anyone for actual parenting.
I have kept dangerous creatures On my own for years before being a parent. Fast Nasty danergous creatures. I lived in a neck of the woods that allowed me to keep as pets such things as rattlesnakes and copperheads and a few other fat venomous snakes.
I Did Not have anyone else my age our younger to expose them too. Period and would not have either been allowed to keep them or Considered keeping them Had I.
I had my head screwed on firmely Then as I do Now.
And I Still won't have a poke yet.
I have Two fast nasty spiders.
I'm Damn good at handling bad situations. I have damn good refelexes and a damn good education in dealing with situations combining potentialy dangerous creatures and other people.
I am Not afraid of pokes.
I think they are beautiful. I think they are amazing.
But I know it's impossable to Ever say a situation won't occure.
That it Can't get out or it will never bite. What I Know is that truely Anything Is possable.
And I also know that unless Your a parent you have No idea what it's like to be responsable for another person completly.
Steve said it best.
They need to be respected because simply put the combination of size speed and venom add up to a Much greater potential for disaster. You add young children into the mix and the danger Tripples. No matter How much you educate them. Kids are curiosity machines that have little or no concept of their own mortality or the skills to truely evaluate a dangerous situation.
The fact that those that would pish posh the and wave off the whole idea of danger elements are younger proves this point.
No offence guys and not insuting.
But honest to gods I Know that age bracket. I have been there and done that And I have worked with a great many in that age scale. I have two teens.
Your gods. If you say you have a situation under control you Do an no one can tell you otherwise. You are firmly in the grip of your self confidance and the idea that somehting can go wrong is outside the relam of reality for you.
genious_gr. No. You don't get a warning when you buy a car.
But unfortunelty it's also a fact that hundreds die in them everyday because common sense was not applied.
There are Few reports on Pokes and Vemon,,, the hobby doesn't spread over this worlds population as car ownership does.
So you have to take the statistics and apply them to the scale at hand.
In the scales of tarantulas Pokes are Hot.
Fast agile and venomous.
And How good you are at dealing with your collection has Nothing to do with how a situation will go down if something does happen.
Which it Can and Will as Soon as you have your back truned for a microsecond.
I frankly hope you can always keep that confident godlike attitude and that life doesn't do the inevitable and slap you into your place with the rest of us mere mortal creatures.
I commend your spirit.
But I disagree with your ability to truely make a call as you did on the grounds of lack of life and full scale responsability for more then yourself and your collections.
 

Tarantula Lover

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First i want to thank everyone for all the compliments that they stated about me, i didnt know this was a new thread untill i clicked it, i thought it was the pokie photo thread!:p
Second i dont want to take any sides here, because i am only a kid, i can only debate so much=D Chip, i wasnt the one who picked out the Psalmopoeus genus, it was actually my dad himself. I put a picture of one as a wallpaper my dad saw it was in awe, i told him about it, now have 4, 3 slings, 1 juvie. My dad helps me change and do maintence with all my "agile, dangerous t's" also this is another reason people are afraid of spiders, i saw a pokie loved it, my brother saw a poke in threat and saw yellow caution bands, i know what you guys mean, i wont get a pokie, i got some feedback from scott today! he said "Let them grow" (thanks Scott =D ) Thats what i am going to do, i dont want you guys to think i am getting t's without my parnets feedback.

For Instance- I met J.P Version 1.0 (Jon) at the MRS and Bryan Cronoss, you guys tell them my dad is cautious about the t's i get. Thanks for putting me in the spotlight! :} ;P =D ;) :)


James
 

Code Monkey

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So basically, the yes voters seem to think that us no voters are motivated purely by the "dangerous nature" of the Poecilotheria, get real yourselves.

If James were my son he wouldn't have the Psalmopoeus, the Haplopelma, the Pterinochilus, the Hysterocrates, or the Citharischius. That he has all of these about seven months into keeping Ts says that either James' parents know him extremely well and trust him, or they don't actually know much at all about the hobby. My gut tells me it's more of two, but I don't know James' situation well enough to speak definitively.

You have to learn to crawl before you can walk, and you have to learn to walk before you can run. A large, fast, potentially feisty arboreal is pretty much at the Olympic sprinting end of the T keeping spectrum, and with no more time than James has invested in this hobby, and no more challenging speciments than he has, he's still only walking, and only a little bit faster than a stroll.

I said myself that the "baptism by fire" method is often extremely effective as a teaching tool, and most people come through just fine. The difference is that unlike with more gradual learning curves, the failures get burned severely. When James hasn't even had *one* large, feisty adult T under his belt, what kind of fool says, "Hey, go ahead and get the pokie, you'll be fine"? Although I took a bit of crap for making my age statements, I find it more than a little bit coincidental that, Phillip excluded, all the "go ahead and do it" votes are from teenagers. Waiting a year or so until he has more experience dealing with larger, more defensive specimens is not going to make all the pokies in the world disappear. They'll still be there on dealers' price lists, maybe even cheaper than now, and James will *know* whether or not he's ready for such a T, not just covet it and think he can handle it. Being able to wait a little while for things until the situation is better is one of the biggest signs of maturity.

This is a decision for James and his parents to make; more accurately, it's a decision for his parents *only* to make with the full knowledge of the factors. What a 13 y.o. wants and what a 13 y.o. gets, in a good household, should have nothing to do with one another unless the parents genuinely agree that it's an appropriate idea.
 

Weapon-X

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re

pokies are'nt that hard to care for, they stay secure most of the time behind their bark(most of the time), i feel that james could take care a small maybe 1-2" p. regalis its not difficult , as long as he had it housed properly, i belave he has usambra's and other t's that are cosidered just as toxic? i would be much more worried about say an usambra or H. gigas they tend to be much more defensive in my opinion, pokies seem rather to run and hide fisrt, thats why i said a p. regalis(not an ornata, rufilata or any of the others which seem much more flighty), i beleave if he started with a sling he would be fine an adult can be quite a heart racer, Also dose'nt he already have a venezualion suntiger??? much more flighty and quicker to bite from what i hear, the mass pokie paranoia is kinda ridiculous though, understood but a bit out of order... i think basicaly it just comes dow to proper techniques when feeding and keep any quick aboreal t, like don't pick it up, use hemos or tongs when working in there enclosures, always keep a close on them when remove the lid, etc..., just to add to it my fisrt t was a chilean rose, my 2nd t was an adult female p. regalis and all i knew was what i had read about keeping them online, but for someone at 13 if they seemed responsible enough and had it down i would suggest a young sling, just my 2 cents--Jeff
 

Code Monkey

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James, one of the things that has constantly amazed me about you is that you seem to have your head screwed on straighter than many of the old folks around here. I am also glad to hear that your parents are taking an active role in your hobby and not just turning you loose to run the show on your own. If more kids were like you, and more parents like yours, this world would be a much better place.

I'm glad you enjoyed the spotlight, and I'm sure sometime next year we'll be seeing the "Check out my new pokie pics!" thread from you, but no one will be cringing then.
 

Tarantula Lover

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Originally posted by Code Monkey
James, one of the things that has constantly amazed me about you is that you seem to have your head screwed on straighter than many of the old folks around here. I am also glad to hear that your parents are taking an active role in your hobby and not just turning you loose to run the show on your own. If more kids were like you, and more parents like yours, this world would be a much better place.

I'm glad you enjoyed the spotlight, and I'm sure sometime next year we'll be seeing the "Check out my new pokie pics!" thread from you, but no one will be cringing then.
=D =D =D

Thanks!


James
 

genious_gr

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Originally posted by Nixy
I have damn good refelexes
Dont think so, you allways spit coffe on your screen when reading sth funny!!:}

Originally posted by Nixy
I frankly hope you can always keep that confident godlike attitude and that life doesn't do the inevitable and slap you into your place with the rest of us mere mortal creatures.
I commend your spirit.
But I disagree with your ability to truely make a call as you did on the grounds of lack of life and full scale responsability for more then yourself and your collections.
:eek: :confused:
 

Nixy

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1,488
genious_gr. Like I said it wasn't an insult to you or anyone in your age bracket.
It's just Life experience and my own experience with it, teens, T's, gravity, and that little darling thing called murphies law.
When I read here I don't give a damn what the age is that gives me good advice.
I take Brandons advice on T's as readly as someone elses. Because I have crossed refurenced the stuff enough to know it's valad information.
I don't take anything with a blind eye and just shrug and do it.
If someone knows their stuff they know their stuff.
I know life and parenting better then he does or you do.
So I can make a better call on Those matters.
I have lived longer and been in more and varied situations so I can better grasp Those matters.
And the fact that I can lose my grip oin my coffee after over twenty years experience with it just proves my point that no matter how long you do something or at what skill level.
<Crap> Does, can and Will happen.
And all your knowelege and training and ability can't stop it.
 
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