Poecilotheria

Brandon

Arachnobaron
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Jul 19, 2002
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415
To all,

James (Tarantula Lover) has a post going on about what tarantula he should get. H lividum or P regalis. Ever since those bite reports have come out about Pokeys people have become more and more afraid of what is truly a great species and genus. It is my opinion that a Pokey is really no more dangerous than the family dog, and if it isn’t handled makes a great pet. To detour someone from having such pleasures because they are quote “Dangerous” is not really a good way of helping someone. I have seen James type that he doesn't hold his tarantulas often, and im assure that he wouldn’t hold his pokey, so I see no reason to detour him of it. Many "Inexperienced" people own the genus and have never been bitten. And so one person in America that we know of does get bitten everyone overreacts. This species and genus are not aggressive and out to hunt people. So lets stop acting that way. James I say get your pokey, and don't be afraid. You seem very active in the tarantula world and very responsible and I see no reason as to not get it. Thank You

Sincerely,

Brandon
 

kellygirl

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Sep 1, 2002
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I disagree with you, Brandon. It's more than okay to have a healthy fear/respect of a potentially dangerous creature--especially when we're talking about a 13 old kid who has been keeping tarantulas less than a year and has very young siblings in the house. Most of us have read the bite reports and seen what can happen to an adult after a poec bite... I'd hate to come here one day to read about how James' little sister had gotten into his room and...

James, do your parents realize how potent the venom is in these spiders you're getting? You have quite a few aggressive species... but I remember when you first started coming here how your parents were wary even about the original pinktoe. The way I see it, your parents have already let you have a lot of leeway (sp?) with your collection. Why don't you focus on what you've got and hold off on the more potent ones for awhile, at least until your siblings get a bit older?

I don't think you should've gotten the lividium but it's kinda late for that. Please don't get the Poec. Even if you never intend to hold it, you never know what could happen when you're not at the house. It sounds like your family is pretty large and all it takes is one time for one of your little siblings to get into your room and get hurt.

People, please read profiles before you start recommending these potentially harmful species to such young collectors. What's next, Stromatopelma? Come on now.

*End of rant*

kellygirl

P.S. James, I hope that I have not offended you. You and I have talked before a little bit through PM and I have found you to be mature enough to accept correction (not common among most people your age!). Please don't take this as a personal attack on you, because it definitely isn't so.
 

Brandon

Arachnobaron
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Kelly,
Beleive me, I have read the reports and have had such honor as to see what happens to a person first hand. And 13, what the hell does age have to do with anything. It isnt age as much as it is maturity. So come on lay of "Younger people." Pokeys, are dangerous, but why stray away. Are we all going to be kept under the rock, or stay hidden in our shells because, something is dangerous. Everyday you drive Kelly + others you stand more of a chance of being hit and killed than being bitten by a pokey, that isnt handled. Why be afraid of something that inst out to get us, like it is made out to be. Im damn near 17 years of age, I can hardly get people to respond to my f:::ing posts. I have owned pokeys since as long as I have been collecting, never been bitten because I respect the power. Im sorry for becoming angry but alot of your attitudes tward something that is great to have, have just become disgusting to me.

*End of My Rant*
Sincerely,

Brandon
 

Code Monkey

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Strongly disagree with you Brandon.

Kellygirl hits it dead on here. The issue isn't really about whether James is going to handle his hypothetical Poecilotheria and be bitten, it's can he safely and confidently manage such a spider in the first place. These things can escape, people can react unexpectedly to a dashing, giant spider, and things can happen, and not necessarily for the best.

Yes, this hobby is addictive, and it's quite easy to find yourself sitting on a couple of dozen Ts without having a very good idea how you go there. But, as I said in the thread, there is a world of difference between managing slings and managing adults of any variety of T. James has yet to demonstrate expertise in handling an adult, feisty terrestrial, let alone an adult, feisty arboreal. My personal opinion, if I were James' parents and knowledgeable about the subject, is that he woudn't even have the Psalmopoeus, but he does, and I think that's more than enough challenge for now.
 

rapunzel

Arachnodemon
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Jan 17, 2003
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750
as a mother....

WOW, you sure have some deep-seated anger there, dont you?

With maturity comes responsibility. That and "age is just a number"...blah blah blah...

Someone may be OLD enough and mature enough to handle something potentially dangerous..and by that I mean, take care of , etc. and never ever plan on holding it. But...there comes a point when you have to be RESPONSIBLE for the other people around you, that live in your house, and be grown up enough to realize that just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.

Nobody has really said that they don't think James could handle the responsibility..just that he probably should NOT...Kelly has a wonderful point, and as a mother I have to agree with her. My kids are quick to get into something they shouldnt when they think they can get away with it. It only takes a second for a disaster to happen.
I think that by waiting to get a pokie, James would be demonstrating much more maturity than getting one with the mentality of: "because he can and hell, nobody on this board takes a young person serious anyhow"...out of respect for his younger siblings.
If a pokie can practically knock an adult on his ass, what do you think that it could do to a baby? Remember that babies dont have the Maturity not to poke, squeeze, etc. critters. Don't say the younger children would never come in contact with it...ask the posters here who has potentially dangerous Ts missing in their home right now..it happens. That is why it is called an "accident". It isnt planned.
 

Code Monkey

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Originally posted by Brandon
Why be afraid of something that inst out to get us, like it is made out to be. Im damn near 17 years of age, I can hardly get people to respond to my f:::ing posts.
At the risk of inducing another rant, if you're 17, you've got about as much credibility on recommending what a 13 y.o. should be doing as I do on deciding what every parent in America must do to raise their children properly. It's a sore spot with teenagers, but the gods' honest truth is that no one under 26* knows much of anything no matter how it seems to them. The most significant thing you realise as you get older is how little you knew when you were younger.

* Admittedly, you start to get your head screwed on straight by 22 or so, but you're still far off of realising what a truly ignorant putz you've been ;)
 
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Brandon

Arachnobaron
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Jul 19, 2002
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415
Code Monkey,
It's a shame that you feel that way about teens. Its funny because Im sure I know just as much about tarantulas as the next adualt on here, but im nothing but a putz. I have personally been around since the creation of this site. I have never gotton much respect from anyone except a very select few. I feel its because of my age, and I think that its very messed up. You ingnorant adualts can maybe look at things from two sides, or are you to old to do that. Im sorry to spite a problem but yea there is deep rooted anger. Any one can post hey Look at my New Tarantula, and get 15 post about how pretty it is. But I can post something about the developement of eggs, of the breeding behavior of a certain species and get maby 2. Perhaps its my age, or maybe we have all lost the true value in keeping and owning these gorgious creatures. But lets ingnore the future leaders of or world and or society.

Sincerely,

Brandon
 

Code Monkey

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Brandon, you prove my point for me. I don't disrespect you or other teens, and I don't question what you do or don't know about tarantulas, but that has absolutely nothing with whether a newbie young teen should be jumping into keeping Poecilotheria when its also clear that his parents aren't fully informed on the subject, either. The thing that you do not yet realise is that almost every adult knows everything you do, and a whole lot more, even the seemingly completely clueless among them.

One day you will be older, and you will look back at what you "knew" at your age and think, "what a stupid putz I was," sad but true.
 

LunarFaery

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Mar 20, 2003
Messages
88
Im sorry but I feel the need to interject my opinion here. As the mother of 5 children, 4 living, one passed away from SIDS. I think I understand what some of the others are trying to get at. I dont think the major issue is whether Brandon needs a pokie and can keep himself from harm. Its whether he can keep his siblings from harm. Kids are quick, sneaky lil monsters, HMM sounds like a few spiders Ive read about ANYWAYS. My kids the more you tell them NO the more tempted they are. My best friend works at a pet store and my kids have had more contact with the small animals than most. Ive said dont touch a billion times. But did they listen. HELL NO After awhile I gave up and let life teach. And those hamster bites HURT . Thats when the lesson was learned. Yea a hamster bite hurts, drew some blood and they shed tears. But that by far is less dangerous that the vemon from a pokie. While Im by no means a tarantula expert....Im trying to figure out what I want...(there is a 4-5 inch blondi at my local petstore that I want sooo badly but Im not sure if I can house it away from my people...and that king baboon that I think it drop dead gorgeous. ok thats another post)

Anyway back to your issue Brandon. I dont feel the issue whether you are ready for a pokie should be the primary one...its the safety of the younger ones in your house. In a few years you will be on your own with your own place and when its just you....and no one else to think of, then the time is right. How would you feel if someone got into its housing and got sick? Life taught me never say never....

good luck with your choice
Jen
 

Buspirone

Arachnoprince
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Mar 10, 2003
Messages
1,064
I wish I was 17 again and knew it all. Its horrible how as we get older we realize how little we actually do know or do we just unlearn it all. As far as the lack of responses to your posts on more advanced levels of husbandry...well, most people don't have the time or inclination to extend their hobby that far past the basic "pet" aspect and therefore don't possess the experience or education in that area to feel comfortable commenting or discussing it without fear of being embarassed or appearing ignorant. Since James is only 13 it is his parents decision as to whether he should keep a specimen that is "potentially" far more aggressive and prone to bite that has a more medically significant venom. A 13 year old(or a 17 year old for that matter) isn't responsible for themselves and as independant, responsible and capable as you feel nothing will change that fact. You being here since the beginning of the site doesn't impress me. I was around when we used 5-1/4" disks, beleived if a modem was to exceed 9600 baud the phone wires would melt and we used BBS's to exchange information. That in and of itself does not give me special domain or rights on the current incarnation of the internet. Sounds alot like your just angry with adults or authority. Its natural and if your lucky you will get past it without too many lumps. ;P
 

Brandon

Arachnobaron
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Jul 19, 2002
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I have no problems with authority, I respect most adults. I know I don’t know it all, and I have much to learn. I’m not saying anyone here is wrong for saying that James shouldn’t have a pokey, I’m just saying Why not give it a chance. All the people in my family understand the great potency of this genus's venom. The real thing that gets to me is the stereotype of teens. Yea there are allot that hate authority, and don’t listen, and are just plain dumb. Doesn’t mean all of us are like that. I feel that my opinion is just as important as the next persons, but that doesn’t matter because I'm a teen. Throughout my collecting carrier, my age has brought me downfalls, people don’t listen, and people would back out of a trade because they asked my age and figured I was untrustworthy. I have never ripped of anyone, and I sure as hell don’t give useless information.

Code Monkey,
You say that you don’t disrespect teens, but continually call us/me a "stupid Putz" isn’t to respectful. All I want is adults to realize that our opinions are really just as intelligent, and especially in this hobby. There have been a couple people here in Phoenix, which have taken me under their wing so to speak, they always have heard me out, and respected my opinion even though I was as much as 20 years younger. I can’t thank those people enough for their help, and knowledge, and especially the fact that they don’t put me down because of my age. So once more I will be quieted by the adults and not have my opinion shared on an equal level.

I really did use to love this site, it was great to find people that shared and loved the same things I do. I use to try to post allot, and be part of this great group. But since I can post "hey look at my pretty new t" I find it fruitless to continue to share. I worked very hard to learn what I have, and discover things first hand. It's very self satisfactory, but what is even better is sharing my knowledge with others. Unfortunately I don’t have that opportunity here, as I once thought I did.

Sincerely,

Brandon
 

MrT

Arachnoking
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Aug 13, 2002
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2,174
Originally posted by Brandon

So come on lay of "Younger people."
Brandon [/B]
There is alot of younger people on this site. So lets try not to HAMMER them into thinking their ignorant. Brandon has his opinion, just like the rest of you. Be it right or wrong.
Brandon brings alot to this site, so be cool.

Ernie
 

skinheaddave

SkorpionSkin
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Chip,

There are young people who have their heads screwed on nicely. I also know a lot of people who are quite old and quite clueless.

I wonder how you arrived at the 26 year cutoff? Perhaps when you are 50, the cutoff will be somewhere in the 40s? When you were 20, I bet the cutoff was 16 or something. Such blatant generalizations tell me that you think you've got this whole life thing figured out ... which I think you will find to be a bogus notion in about a decade or so.

Now, as for the original subject, I would have to agree with Chip and Kelly etc. You do have to take your surroundings into account when chosing what animals to care for. That includes keeping medically significant bugs away from children, the elderly and anyone else who is succeptable to the more severe systemic effects.

Cheers,
Dave
 

Code Monkey

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Originally posted by Brandon
You say that you don’t disrespect teens, but continually call us/me a "stupid Putz" isn’t to respectful.
I didn't call you any such thing. You will do that for me ;)
I was a stupid putz at 17, and I will guarantee that anyone on this board who doesn't think they were also a stupid putz (or fill in your own word for "absolutely clueless") at 17 is still 17. It's not meant to be derogatory, but what we think we know at that age turns out to be a bunch of facts (and maybe not even that for some) and little of actual substance about life.

I never had a clue what your age was before tonite and I've never has one misgiving about your knowledge of Ts. Nor do I think you're off your rocker about Poecilotheria, but I do think your age is speaking when you are all for recomending a 13 y.o. with zero experience handling feisty adult Ts is ready for a pokie when his own parents are not fully in on the equation.

It's too easy to see adults as the enemy when you're young when all they are is people just like you, but with twice the actual living under their belt. Facts and dry knowledge is easy for anyone intelligent regardless of age, the maturity to weigh decisions only comes about with real experience that, barring a really awful life, just isn't possible by your age.

James has demonstrated a great deal of maturity with asking for our opinions and taking them into account. You could try a little of the same. Whatever lack of respect you perceive I think is more between your ears than anything else.

As for the husbandry issues, how many people on this board are really experts about reproductive husbandry? I know I still haven't bred my first T and I've got two decades worth of keeping them. All we can do is share the knowledge we do have.
 

Code Monkey

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Originally posted by skinheaddave
There are young people who have their heads screwed on nicely. I also know a lot of people who are quite old and quite clueless.

I wonder how you arrived at the 26 year cutoff?
Precisely because that's around when I realised that I really didn't know jack about life and never was going to, all I could do was wing it, which is just what my formerly omnipotent, then clueless, then finally fully human parents had been doing all along.

You read way too much into my comments.

EDIT: Did I set my threshhold too arbitrarily high? Yes, I admit it. People like you are evidence that not everyone below 26 is still clueless (something tells me your lack of drinking probably contributed to your accelerated maturity, though ;)). OTOH, it does hold generally true for most people. That some people never get a clue is just testament to the sad fact that there is no cure for stupidity.
 
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Brandon

Arachnobaron
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Joined
Jul 19, 2002
Messages
415
Chip,
With something like tarantulas it is, fact or it isn’t. I wasn’t at all proposing that he handle his Pokey, as you make it out to be. I said it would probably be ok if he got one if he didn’t handle it. I know many people who need not handle there tarantulas, and therefore don’t come into any danger of being bitten.

And as I said before I don’t see adults as the enemy, maybe you are to wise, or great to see this. I used to be right were James was, get this don’t get it. I would never know the truth till I found out for myself. So that is what I did.

I wasn’t trying to weigh any decision, but sometimes its best to learn on your own then having a bunch of people govern you. That has been what most Adults have told me, and I use it and it works. I’m really happy that you have two decades under your belt that is really great, but it doesn’t make you any greater than the next person.

And it also doesn’t show your maturity as an adult to continually throw insults at me, when I haven’t even directed one at you.

Sincerely,

Brandon
 

Code Monkey

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Originally posted by Brandon
And it also doesn’t show your maturity as an adult to continually throw insults at me, when I haven’t even directed one at you.
Not to nitpick, but I'm still trying to figure out why you think I insulted you. I explained the "stupid putz" comment and it apparently went right over your head.

I disagree with your recomendation. I believe that you are too young to really be making a sound recomendation. I believe that one day you will probably agree with me (at 17, I'd have told James and the people on this board the same thing you did). I believe that one day you'll look back at your maturity at this age and cringe.

If that's repeated insults, we've got different definitions of the concept.
 

Brandon

Arachnobaron
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"Whatever lack of respect you perceive I think is more between your ears than anything else."

I still think the putz thing was, uncalled for and so is this. If you’re so set in your ways that you can't think outside the box, I feel sorry for you. Maybe I should publicly apologize for making such and outrageous statement as to have James figure things out for himself.

Sincerely,

Brandon
 

Botar

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Aug 27, 2002
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Brandon,

I also did not know your age prior to this thread. I must also agree with CM that I usually will only comment on threads where I have an opinion. If you create a thread seeking comments/suggestions about breeding H. lividium, I'll be silent on the matter. It is not a slam on you at all. Some of the threads that have received the most attention are on the most mundane issues.

I think you've taken offense to CM's post (fear not, you are not alone :D ), but I don't think he meant it as offensive. CM is one of those people who had a minus mark in the "Plays well with others" category on his grade card... and that was in college.

Bottom line, some people disagree with your advice to James. It's not the end of the world. I'm over twice your age and I would feel comfortable seeking your opinion on T's. Just roll with this one and let it go.

Botar
 
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