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P. metallica price

Discussion in 'Tarantula Chat' started by Fierce Deity, Mar 5, 2006.

  1. Tony

    Tony Arachno-pragmatarian Old Timer

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    TWO successful sacs, so far. And P tigris are FAR more rare than metallica, on the order of 1 for every 6-7 metallica..Something like that...And more than one eggsac can come in...My three were imported at the same time and bore three dates on the lids, IE 3 sacs...Same father perhaps, 3 diff mothers...
    Tony
     
  2. David Richards

    David Richards Arachnoknight Old Timer

    RVS - Anyone that says they are overated must not have one at home! They are better than they are seen on the net.

    Tony- Is it possible that the dates were the last molt dates? If they were new slings, there wouldn't be more than one or 2 dates on the cup. Things aren't always as they seem. just a thought.
     
  3. MRL

    MRL Arachnolord Old Timer

    USA
    They were the dates they "hatched" and was even told by who received them that they were from two different sacs dates signifying this. 10/24/05 and 10/31/05
     
  4. TheNatural

    TheNatural Arachnoprince Old Timer

    ;) Ok, I agree that a pokie dont HAVE to be only for advanced keeper.
    but I just dont want anyone to realize that is not able to deal with Ts, being biten by a pokie, so guys... watch out, they can be very fast.
     
  5. dragyn5

    dragyn5 Arachnosquire Old Timer


    Hey Terri,

    I didn't buy any metallica's yet. I was discussing my slings that I already have. I haven't found any retailers that have them yet. There are quite a few online dealers that do. I'll try to be patient and wait for the price to come down. I've just counted all the new ones that I want and there are 45 other T's that I want, so I will work on getting those before the metallica. :wicked:
     
  6. Nich

    Nich Curator of glass boxes Arachnosupporter

    THis isnt like the x-box 360, the price will not be predictable and is chatotic at best in the long run. For right now 220 from we all know who is as good as it is going to get unless somone here gets lucky and pumps out couple hundred slings.......very unlikey. THe price does not go down with time on something like this, but rather up with demand until ameture and prof breeders ALL can breed them with results to satiate the masses....in short...if you have or can scrape up the cash it is a safe investment if you can grow it to its potential. but gaining exp. is smart, a dead $250+ T isnt ideal.
     
  7. RVS

    RVS Arachnobaron Old Timer

    You may very well be correct, I have not seen one in real life yet, and I could possibly be won over ;) .
    Like I said earlier though, I do like them, but I'm just not sure I "$250" like them.
     
  8. angelarachnid

    angelarachnid Arachnobaron Old Timer

    I sold the young from my first sac at £90 ea

    after seeing some of the prices advertised i might try to import as amny pokes as i can if i can get to Texas.......ill be ritch

    Ray
     
  9. Michael Jacobi

    Michael Jacobi RETIRED/RARELY USE AB Arachnosupporter

    Ray,

    I know you meant no harm by your post, but I fear it will only contribute to perpetuating the American hobbyist's misunderstanding of spider economics.

    For those who don't know, £90 is currently about $156 USD or $179 CDN (Obviously, I have no idea what the exchange rate was at the time Ray sold his first offspring).

    However, in a nutshell, APPLES & bloody ORANGES. How much they sold for in the UK, or all of Europe for that matter, has VERY LITTLE to do with what they sell for in the US. The spider market there is not equivalent to the spider market here for a number of reasons that I will get into here. (For a more in depth explanation please reference Frank Somma's article from ARACHNOCULTURE 1(2) ).

    First, to date there have only been two sacs produced in the US. Kelly Swift - the first US breeder - originally sold his for $235, but raised the price later after his supply became shorter and they had grown somewhat. The second sac was produced by an individual in Florida and those are the spiders that Todd Gearheart is currently selling for $220. Those prices are far below the original $350-400 the species sold for in the US. To be honest, in my opinion, the prices that Kelly advertised and Todd is advertising are too low. Why do I say that? Because the wholesale price has gone up! I paid 20% more for the P. metallica spiderlings recently imported from Denmark than I did for the first batch!!! And I had no problem selling all of the recent spiderlings for $255 plus. The demand still exceeds the supply.

    Second, if you can't afford the spiders don't buy them. Purdy dadgum simple. Don't whine. Don't covet. Buy what you can afford. These spiders should be going into the hands of experienced breeders so that more are produced and eventually the casual hobbyist CAN afford them. This species has proven to be as hardy and breedable as P. regalis and it is only a matter of time before they become priced close to what Ray sold his for. Patience, my friends.

    Third, and this is most important, what happens across the Atlantic and what happens here are two vastly different things. I won't go into an involved and detail description here (again, Somma did so in his ARACHNOCULTURE article), but to LEGALLY import spiders into the US is EXPENSIVE and COMPLICATED. A large order of spiderlings cost more than many cars! (You see, you don't get to just cherry pick 100 P. metallica, you have to take the 300 C. huahini and 400 P. cambridgei too!)US Fish & Wildlife is strict, international shipping is expensive, customs brokers and USFW inspection fees are expensive, etc. It's not just a matter of sending a box. At least, for those of us who follow the LAWS. European collectors can ship legally from country to country inexpensively without any government intervention. Those of us in the "land of the FREE to pay more" cannot. I - and all other importers - have to pay $400 for shipping, $400 for a customs broker, $55 for USFW paperwork, etc. etc. ad nauseum, plus the order price. (I won't even get into losses, overhead, etc.)

    So, run, don't walk over to Todd's site and buy his spiderlings for $220. That's a great price. Again, too low in my opinion. When my first sacs hatch maybe I'll be able to sell for a similar price (or lower), but I can't afford to sell those bred in Denmark for that, not with the overhead of a full-time professional business.

    In any animal hobby (draw the herpetocultural parallel here), there are high-end species that are deserving of that status for one or more reasons. Most snake breeders/keepers cannot afford an albino ball python. They buy albino boas. (or albino Burmese, or for some corn snakes - and that doesn't make the corn snake any less of a snake than the albino ball, just less expensive). If you can't afford P. metallica, perhaps you should look at the 100+ other incredible species available in our hobby, and not blame the dealers and breeders. You can't have Glenmorangie tastes on a Cutty Sark budget.

    Cheers, Michael
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2006
  10. demicheru

    demicheru Arachnosquire Old Timer

    To beat the argument to death, again

    Going back to the argument over whether pokies are good for beginnners...I made an argument in a similar thread, about good beginners species. I've only been in the hobby for about six months now, and the "nastiest" spider i've got is an A. seemani. I know that is my choice, but I would *much* rather have my first escapee be a T that is more or less simple to deal with, since I know the situation itself won't be. Also, just last night, I had another reminder of why my arboreals are all Avicularia sp. I was giving my juvenile A. avic some water, decided to try and get a picture, and about a second and a half after it was on my hand, it was up my arm, inside my shirt, and nestling in my armpit. I would much prefer to have an A. avic remind me how fast these spiders can be than a P. murinus or a pokie.

    I think it is really important for people to deal with rehousing, catching an escapee, having a T end up on a part of the body NOT where you expected, etc etc with something on the "nicer" end of the spectrum. I know it is perfectly possible to keep a tarantula or scorpion and never have anything go wrong. I also know that, "I only want one or two T's" or "What I have now is enough" is just about never true, and we keep buying more, increasing the chances of something unexpected happening.

    I don't think it's fair to the tarantula to get in over your head, have something happen, gets scared and not know how to deal with it and say to yourself "well, i've got to smash it, because I can't do anything else". And I have read that exact sentiment on these message boards before...not often, but I have read it.

    [/rant]
    -philip
     
  11. MRL

    MRL Arachnolord Old Timer

    USA
    That's a great post. I had a lot of trouble convincing myself to buy a P metallica. I went from thinking who would spend this much for a spiderling to getting two myself and now am with no regrets. I'll also say my friend who is fairly new into the hobby had that thinking just the same when I first showed him the spider and now he wants one as well knowing they will still likely have a huge price tag once he is ready for it. When I bought mine, I was given some great insight on how it all works even more specific than whats posted above and it is much easier to understand that simply European prices can not be compared to what the cost is over here.
     
  12. Wadew

    Wadew Arachnobaron Old Timer

    Fierce Diety;
    Hello ,if I toss in my 2cents $500.00 canadian is not a bad price for a 1" P.metallica if it is one inch it has already gone through a couple of risky molts and to speak lightly skin problems with any slings for the first couple molts are definatly an issue worth considering with such a pricey bug! if you can afford it I say "Go for it" I would almost promise that when it becomes an adult you will have no regrets!;)
     
  13. Michael Jacobi

    Michael Jacobi RETIRED/RARELY USE AB Arachnosupporter

    Thanks Manny.

    In London, gasoline ("petrol") is over $6 a gallon. Here in the US we have been complaining about prices in excess of $2 a gallon. Through the Internet, American hobbyists are privy to European prices, but it is unfair to compare market value between two countries or to equate the difference with dealer greed. Contrary to Ray's facetious closing comment, nobody is getting rich.

    Don't get me wrong; I am not saying that several hundred dollars is not a lot of money to pay for a bug. We may be passionate about our hobby, but these are luxury items, not necessities. If you are fortunate enough to have the means to purchase P. metallica at current prices, go for it. If not, I would argue that P. regalis is an equally wonderful spider.

    My final point: Although to 99% of y'all this is a hobby, to some of us it is the way we earn our living and support our families. You don't begrudge the huge corporations that own the stores you buy your groceries and televisions from for making a profit, please don't think that professional dealers should make something affordable to the masses at their own detriment.

    Cheers, Michael
     
  14. Why are they so expensive? P.metallica is a beautiful spider, no doubt....but for 2000 swedish (roughly $285) I would just say it's not worth it, unless it has got a bit of size, paying around $300 for a half inch spider seems way overpriced.
    The cheapest I've seen here was 1300 (roughly $185) but even that is expensive for a spider so tiny.

    But back to the question, WHY are they expensive, looks? rareness?
     
  15. xenesthis

    xenesthis Arachnobaron Old Timer

    Pricing

    Fellow hobbyists:

    I think Michael's comments are dead-on regarding this thread. P. metallica is going to hold it's value mainly due its great, rare blue color, but with that said, everytime there is made a new sac, pure economics of more supply will justify the lowering of the price.

    In my opinion of doing this business and hobby for a long time, the average joe and mary hobbyist considers a $25 spiderling an average price. When the price is $35-55, now that usually starts getting a little away from the mainstream and going to more specialty collector. Anything $75+ is reserved for about less than 10% of our hobby. ANY spider fetching $175-$500 or more is definitely for less than 3% of our hobby or a member of the Kennedy family. :) I've always disagreed with the orginal P. metallica and P. miranda prices that were established between one European breeder and one U.S. importer. I think when P. metallica is selling for $150 and at least 40% of hobbyists have the ability to purchase one, things will be better. Again, I'm not advocating hurting serious collector or investors, I just think $450 for a 1/2" spiderling is nuts and smacks of elitism. Every time a P. metallica sac is produced the price will come down. That is the nature of economics, so what we are seeing is completely natural in the business side of things.

    Right now, I think the following are the current high-end species of the U.S. hobby:

    Poecilotheria metallica
    Poecilotheria sp. "tigeris"
    Poecilotheria miranda
    Poecilotheria subfusca
    Cyriopagopus sp. "Singapore blue"
    Lampropelma violacepes "Malaysian blue femur"
    Megaphobema peterklaasi
    Megaphobema mesomales
    Lasiodora klugi
    Pamphobeteus spp.
    Xenesthis spp.
    Theraphosa apophysis

    Todd
     
  16. Buspirone

    Buspirone Arachnoprince Old Timer

    I disagree with you here. I think that the initially higher prices that make new, more rare and/or highly sought after species harder to obtain for the average hobbyist is a good thing in the larger scheme of things. It provides a good measure of security that only people who are better educated, more experienced and serious about breeding will initially invest a larger sum of money to obtain such a specimen. This will ensure that the chance of successful breedings will be significantly higher and that in the future a particular spider will be available to Joe Schmoe, tarantula hobbyist.

    In a scenerio where anyone can initially get their hands on these gems for a relatively small price curtails the available variety of genetic material that serious breeders should have at their disposal resulting in fewer successful breedings and then it doesn't matter how much money you have at your disposal because once a successful sac occurs it will be more about who you know and who knows you that will factor more significantly into whether a highly sought after and rare species is available to an individual. That would smack of elitism!
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2006
  17. cacoseraph

    cacoseraph ArachnoGod Old Timer

    lol
    wait about five years
    i can almost guarantee a 1" sling will be about $50
    $100 at the most

    i'm talking USD$100, in ~2010 dollars

    X. immanis should do the same thing.

    you need to wait for the hobbyist produced sacs to start saturating the market
     
  18. Nich

    Nich Curator of glass boxes Arachnosupporter

    The price should be high, high enough to only attrack the serious collectors and breeders. It will limit the possibility of ameture inbreeds and could possibly promote wc imports, necessary for a potentially higher quality and more well tracked "pool of genetics'.....but $500 for a sling which could suffer from "SIDS" is playing jhonny cash to me...right in the line. i dont disagrre, nor agree....im not a dealer. When i move a few thousand east and marry a local dignatary i will control the market.......;P but seriously, i think they sumed it up perfect. Its a species for those who can afford it at the moment. and THOSE should be ones with intentions to breed or make a killer dislpay....my ONLY question is when the next WC shipment is coming in....? :?
     
  19. Nich

    Nich Curator of glass boxes Arachnosupporter

    just read that....i feel redundant, but i stand by the $500 sids scenario, as i fell victim......maybe not a victm of standard sorts, but to my pride. May it one day rain glistening blue carapaces......until then ill pay for the pricy buggers....just like a true californian....:}
     
  20. MRL

    MRL Arachnolord Old Timer

    USA
    Immanis have been around since the early 90's I think.
     
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