Nematode Questions

[The Snark]

I didn’t know if I needed any special isolation container or something.

Standard infection control protocols: eliminate or isolate the source to prevent further infection.
In your case you were fortunate to find an expert that knew about your nematodes and knew about them usually being family - theraphosidae specific infectors. What you don't want is a large collection of animals of the same family and no standard infection controls in place. A potential for die off of all the animals within that family. Nematoda are often host specific, but due to the nature of their reproductive ability, present a potential to infect all the rest simply from the air or the keeper going from one containment to the next without an infection control station between each containment.
As example a hospital; all nurses visit the hand wash station between each patient - standard infection control protocol. No objects can travel between patients or patient rooms. Each goes to a holding area for housekeeping to wipe down. All patient rooms are negative pressure, that is, air flows from hallways into the patient rooms. Standards designed into all accredited hospitals.
This inherent design is why Covid was not a major concern in hospital environments. All infection control measures are already in place.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

That’s very interesting because when I was doing research, I found a ton of articles on how to INTRODUCE nematodes to your garden as pest control! Yeesh. And then maybe the phorids spread it. I think you’re onto something. The substrate did appear to have soil in it when I bought it.



Thanks!! Really hoping this’ll be a one time thing…

What substrate were you using do you got the bag it came in ?
Sorry for your loss . Hope the spread stopps.

 

[The Snark]

I found a ton of articles on how to INTRODUCE nematodes to your garden as pest control!

As has been mentioned, remove all matter from our planet and all living organisms with one exception, the earth would still be clearly visible from outer space; a ball of nematodes. The commonest form of life on our planet; several million nematodes for every other individual animal.

They used methyl bromide for years to kill off pests in the soil before planting crops. Slowly the treated farm land became less and less thrifty. It was finally determined a link had been severed in the food chain; the nematodes had been killed off as well.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

How long can tarantulas go after being infected with nematodes before showing signs?

About 33 days for the nematode species Tarantobelus jeffdanielsi. Data on the incubation time for other parasitic nematode species affecting tarantulas does not exist.

Should I be worried about soil harboring them?

Yes, you should. In the description of the nematode species Tarantobelus jeffdanielsi, Schurkman, et. al. (2022) describes attempts to inoculate several individuals of Grammostola pulchra. The only effective method to infect the tarantulas was by feeding live and dead crickets to the tarantulas, but the authors also acknowledge that infection could have occurred from the presence of the nematodes in the tarantulas' soil.

Have you experienced nematodes and did they spread to other specimens?

It is unknown for me personally. In my early days of tarantula keeping I recall having some tarantulas that exhibited the tell-tale sign of nematode infection, the goopy mass in the oral cavity, but without having the proper equipment at the time I was unable to confirm that the mass in the oral cavity was caused by a nematode infection. Since having the proper equipment, and skill to use it, I have not encountered a possible nematode infection. Go figure.

What other precautions can I take, now that I had a confirmed case?

There is no documentation in this thread in the form of micrographs, or confirmation by a third party, that the infection described was caused by nematodes so I'm not sure how you have a "confirmed case." I will assume your diagnosis is correct though for the purpose of answering the questions.

Since the only successful experimental means of intentionally infecting tarantulas with nematodes involved feeding infected dead and live crickets, but with also the possibility of infection occurring from their presence in the soil, it is important to separate the infected tarantula(s) from others, destroy any feeders that may have been used, and get new soil. All documented cases of parasitic nematodes show that they can infect a large number of different hosts, but surprisingly, the intentional infection of Grammostola pulchra with the nematode T. jeffdanielsi was very difficult so I wouldn't worry too much about other tarantulas in a collection being infected.

What is “quarantining?” Can nematodes locomote?

They can move, but not well, and they certainly can't climb or go airborne. Spreading nematodes in any life stage to other tarantula cages would have to involve transplanted soil or infected feeder insects.

For detailed information on nematode infections in tarantulas, I suggest reading these two documents as a start and explore their bibliography to learn even more.

Schurkman, J., Anesko, K., Abolafia, J., De Ley, I. T., & Dillman, A. R. (2022). Tarantobelus jeffdanielsi n. sp.(Panagrolaimomorpha; Panagrolaimidae), a Nematode Parasite of Tarantulas. The Journal of Parasitology, 108(1), 30-43.
https://meridian.allenpress.com/jou...NTOBELUS-JEFFDANIELSI-N-SP-PANAGROLAIMOMORPHA

Baniya, A., Ngov, J., Anesko, K., & Dillman, A. R. (2023). First report of Tarantula-parasitic nematode Tarantobelus jeffdanielsi from Los Angeles, California. Micropublication Biology, 2023.

First report of Tarantula-parasitic nematode Tarantobelus jeffdanielsi from Los Angeles, California - PMC

Tarantobelus jeffdanielsi is a recently described nematode parasite of tarantulas, originally isolated from a tarantula breeder in Virginia Beach, VA. We describe a new case of this parasite infecting tarantulas at a breeding facility in Los ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Arachnophobphile]

How long can tarantulas go after being infected with nematodes before showing signs?

About 33 days for the nematode species Tarantobelus jeffdanielsi. Data on the incubation time for other parasitic nematode species affecting tarantulas does not exist.

Should I be worried about soil harboring them?

Yes, you should. In the description of the nematode species Tarantobelus jeffdanielsi, Schurkman, et. al. (2022) describes attempts to inoculate several individuals of Grammostola pulchra. The only effective method to infect the tarantulas was by feeding live and dead crickets to the tarantulas, but the authors also acknowledge that infection could have occurred from the presence of the nematodes in the tarantulas' soil.

Have you experienced nematodes and did they spread to other specimens?

It is unknown for me personally. In my early days of tarantula keeping I recall having some tarantulas that exhibited the tell-tale sign of nematode infection, the goopy mass in the oral cavity, but without having the proper equipment at the time I was unable to confirm that the mass in the oral cavity was caused by a nematode infection. Since having the proper equipment, and skill to use it, I have not encountered a possible nematode infection. Go figure.

What other precautions can I take, now that I had a confirmed case?

There is no documentation in this thread in the form of micrographs, or confirmation by a third party, that the infection described was caused by nematodes so I'm not sure how you have a "confirmed case." I will assume your diagnosis is correct though for the purpose of answering the questions.

Since the only successful experimental means of intentionally infecting tarantulas with nematodes involved feeding infected dead and live crickets, but with also the possibility of infection occurring from their presence in the soil, it is important to separate the infected tarantula(s) from others, destroy any feeders that may have been used, and get new soil. All documented cases of parasitic nematodes show that they can infect a large number of different hosts, but surprisingly, the intentional infection of Grammostola pulchra with the nematode T. jeffdanielsi was very difficult so I wouldn't worry too much about other tarantulas in a collection being infected.

What is “quarantining?” Can nematodes locomote?

They can move, but not well, and they certainly can't climb or go airborne. Spreading nematodes in any life stage to other tarantula cages would have to involve transplanted soil or infected feeder insects.

For detailed information on nematode infections in tarantulas, I suggest reading these two documents as a start and explore their bibliography to learn even more.

Schurkman, J., Anesko, K., Abolafia, J., De Ley, I. T., & Dillman, A. R. (2022). Tarantobelus jeffdanielsi n. sp.(Panagrolaimomorpha; Panagrolaimidae), a Nematode Parasite of Tarantulas. The Journal of Parasitology, 108(1), 30-43.
https://meridian.allenpress.com/jou...NTOBELUS-JEFFDANIELSI-N-SP-PANAGROLAIMOMORPHA

Baniya, A., Ngov, J., Anesko, K., & Dillman, A. R. (2023). First report of Tarantula-parasitic nematode Tarantobelus jeffdanielsi from Los Angeles, California. Micropublication Biology, 2023.

First report of Tarantula-parasitic nematode Tarantobelus jeffdanielsi from Los Angeles, California - PMC

Tarantobelus jeffdanielsi is a recently described nematode parasite of tarantulas, originally isolated from a tarantula breeder in Virginia Beach, VA. We describe a new case of this parasite infecting tarantulas at a breeding facility in Los ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thanks for posting that link. That was a very educating read on nematodes. They still have no idea of the source of where the nematodes originate.

One thing that has me second guessing on ever using topsoil is:
A. Is it possible that the topsoil I bought, (Timberline in this case) contain nematodes.
B. If I bake the topsoil to sterilize it of organisms, (if I don't start a fire) will that eradicate all possible organisms including possible nematodes.

I have two bags of topsoil that has been sitting here for years because of my reluctance to use it based on that.

Also since I bought it from Home Depot is there a possibility of cross contamination of fertilizers and/or pesticides from shipping or stored in the store. We are talking Home Depot after all where even any of the employees can't tell you what items they have and what aisle you can find what you're looking for.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

Thanks for posting that link. That was a very educating read on nematodes. They still have no idea of the source of where the nematodes originate.

One thing that has me second guessing on ever using topsoil is:
A. Is it possible that the topsoil I bought, (Timberline in this case) contain nematodes.
B. If I bake the topsoil to sterilize it of organisms, (if I don't start a fire) will that eradicate all possible organisms including possible nematodes.

I have two bags of topsoil that has been sitting here for years because of my reluctance to use it based on that.

Also since I bought it from Home Depot is there a possibility of cross contamination of fertilizers and/or pesticides from shipping or stored in the store. We are talking Home Depot after all where even any of the employees can't tell you what items they have and what aisle you can find what you're looking for.

I quit buying that top soil switched to eco earth , because it was too abrasive think it caused a tumor on a lp that died . So I refuse to use anything unless it’s soft enough for a spider. You can cook the dirt then filter it with strainers to get wood chunks and stuff out if it . Or get something else ..
it’s also possible the soil didn’t cause it and was just naturall, but top soil is heavy so makes harder to carry a cage .

 

[Arachnophobphile]

I quit buying that top soil switched to eco earth , because it was too abrasive think it caused a tumor on a lp that died . So I refuse to use anything unless it’s soft enough for a spider. You can cook the dirt then filter it with strainers to get wood chunks and stuff out if it . Or get something else ..
it’s also possible the soil didn’t cause it and was just naturall, but top soil is heavy so makes harder to carry a cage .

I don't have a large collection so I've only used coco fiber and sphagnum moss.

I've used alot of Eco Earth but now I'm not buying that anymore.

Switched to Josh's Frogs coco fiber bricks.

If I had a large collection then I would have to use topsoil mixed with moss and vermiculite due to cost.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

I don't have a large collection so I've only used coco fiber and sphagnum moss.

I've used alot of Eco Earth but now I'm not buying that anymore.

Switched to Josh's Frogs coco fiber bricks.

If I had a large collection then I would have to use topsoil mixed with moss and vermiculite due to cost.

why are joshes coco bricks better?
Peat moss I stopped using that because it blew urticating hairs everywhere for me? And we’re do you find good top soil is anything lighter then the Home Depot variety .. it’s so poor qc . I could try a different brand , what do you filter it with ? Half a 10 gallon tank is too heavy with pure top soil .

 

[Arachnophobphile]

why are joshes coco bricks better?
Peat moss I stopped using that because it blew urticating hairs everywhere for me? And we’re do you find good top soil is anything lighter then the Home Depot variety .. it’s so poor qc . I could try a different brand , what do you filter it with ? Half a 10 gallon tank is too heavy with pure top soil .

No I haven't used any topsoil mix yet only coco fiber, have small collection.

Had issues with the last Eco Earth coco bricks I used. More than likely from the store I bought them from not directly from Eco Earth themselves.

Haven't opened the coco bricks from Josh's yet.

 

[aenigmatica8]

What substrate were you using do you got the bag it came in ?
Sorry for your loss . Hope the spread stopps.

I just had them in the soil mixture I received it about two weeks prior! So unfortunately I’m not sure of the exact origin. Thanks!! I’m hoping for the best!

As has been mentioned, remove all matter from our planet and all living organisms with one exception, the earth would still be clearly visible from outer space; a ball of nematodes. The commonest form of life on our planet; several million nematodes for every other individual animal.

They used methyl bromide for years to kill off pests in the soil before planting crops. Slowly the treated farm land became less and less thrifty. It was finally determined a link had been severed in the food chain; the nematodes had been killed off as well.

Thank goodness they switched! Thanks for the info!

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

I just had them in the soil mixture I received it about two weeks prior! So unfortunately I’m not sure of the exact origin. Thanks!! I’m hoping for the best!

Very bizarre, makes me think I’m sticking to eco earth or top soil mixed with it . Coco fiber is my favorite , it’s not seemed to have any nasty stuff in it and it’s a dried brick.

Thank goodness they switched! Thanks for the info!

Do you have the bag of soil what what the brand and type of soil? Was it to top or potting soil?

 

[aenigmatica8]

How long can tarantulas go after being infected with nematodes before showing signs?

About 33 days for the nematode species Tarantobelus jeffdanielsi. Data on the incubation time for other parasitic nematode species affecting tarantulas does not exist.

Should I be worried about soil harboring them?

Yes, you should. In the description of the nematode species Tarantobelus jeffdanielsi, Schurkman, et. al. (2022) describes attempts to inoculate several individuals of Grammostola pulchra. The only effective method to infect the tarantulas was by feeding live and dead crickets to the tarantulas, but the authors also acknowledge that infection could have occurred from the presence of the nematodes in the tarantulas' soil.

Have you experienced nematodes and did they spread to other specimens?

It is unknown for me personally. In my early days of tarantula keeping I recall having some tarantulas that exhibited the tell-tale sign of nematode infection, the goopy mass in the oral cavity, but without having the proper equipment at the time I was unable to confirm that the mass in the oral cavity was caused by a nematode infection. Since having the proper equipment, and skill to use it, I have not encountered a possible nematode infection. Go figure.

What other precautions can I take, now that I had a confirmed case?

There is no documentation in this thread in the form of micrographs, or confirmation by a third party, that the infection described was caused by nematodes so I'm not sure how you have a "confirmed case." I will assume your diagnosis is correct though for the purpose of answering the questions.

Since the only successful experimental means of intentionally infecting tarantulas with nematodes involved feeding infected dead and live crickets, but with also the possibility of infection occurring from their presence in the soil, it is important to separate the infected tarantula(s) from others, destroy any feeders that may have been used, and get new soil. All documented cases of parasitic nematodes show that they can infect a large number of different hosts, but surprisingly, the intentional infection of Grammostola pulchra with the nematode T. jeffdanielsi was very difficult so I wouldn't worry too much about other tarantulas in a collection being infected.

What is “quarantining?” Can nematodes locomote?

They can move, but not well, and they certainly can't climb or go airborne. Spreading nematodes in any life stage to other tarantula cages would have to involve transplanted soil or infected feeder insects.

For detailed information on nematode infections in tarantulas, I suggest reading these two documents as a start and explore their bibliography to learn even more.

Schurkman, J., Anesko, K., Abolafia, J., De Ley, I. T., & Dillman, A. R. (2022). Tarantobelus jeffdanielsi n. sp.(Panagrolaimomorpha; Panagrolaimidae), a Nematode Parasite of Tarantulas. The Journal of Parasitology, 108(1), 30-43.
https://meridian.allenpress.com/jou...NTOBELUS-JEFFDANIELSI-N-SP-PANAGROLAIMOMORPHA

Baniya, A., Ngov, J., Anesko, K., & Dillman, A. R. (2023). First report of Tarantula-parasitic nematode Tarantobelus jeffdanielsi from Los Angeles, California. Micropublication Biology, 2023.

First report of Tarantula-parasitic nematode Tarantobelus jeffdanielsi from Los Angeles, California - PMC

Tarantobelus jeffdanielsi is a recently described nematode parasite of tarantulas, originally isolated from a tarantula breeder in Virginia Beach, VA. We describe a new case of this parasite infecting tarantulas at a breeding facility in Los ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Amazing information, thanks!! In this case I think it’s unlikely that it came from the feeders I was personally using but rather from where I had bought the T from around two weeks prior. I’m surprised that jeffdanielsi is able to infect both crickets and wax worms! I wonder if this is a result of the hobby. The person I got it from had nematodes infecting his Ts a while ago, and said that phorid flies propagated them, maybe going from one mouth to another to feed on the liquid. It’s interesting that it was hard to inoculate the spiders, and definitely reassuring!

 

[The Snark]

Thank goodness they switched! Thanks for the info!

They were forced to. The use of chemical fertilizers and modern farming methods managed to compensate. What finally worked was methyl bromide got banned as a major greenhouse gas contributor. A few billion cubic feet of fumigated farmlands contributing to the ozone depletion every year.
@AphonopelmaTX Really nailed the data! The only miss in that info is the nematodes usually are introduced into the soil by feces from infected animals. They incubate most readily inside infected animals, not in the soil. The study cited glossed that over somewhat.

 

[aenigmatica8]

They were forced to. The use of chemical fertilizers and modern farming methods managed to compensate. What finally worked was methyl bromide got banned as a major greenhouse gas contributor. A few billion cubic feet of fumigated farmlands contributing to the ozone depletion every year.
@AphonopelmaTX Really nailed the data! The only miss in that info is the nematodes usually are introduced into the soil by feces from infected animals. They incubate most readily inside infected animals, not in the soil. The study cited glossed that over somewhat.

Interesting! So prey animals could be passing it on without even being eaten.

 

[aenigmatica8]

I’m going on record to say that I bet that coconut fiber is probably much less hospitable to nematodes than soil!! You can quote me on that! Soil is probably a lot more nutritious and harbors a diverse ecosystem and probably makes for great food/home for nematodes.

 

[The Snark]

Interesting! So prey animals could be passing it on without even being eaten.

Dogs and cats commonly contract various worms by sniffing feces or each other's butts.

 

[KillBoxSpider]

u rarely see this when u dont use crickets yea it can happen but if u just use roaches they dont infect roaches like they do crickets that dirty feed that kills

 

[The Snark]

Something quite important about these parasitic infections to keep in mind.
You can have, as in the case of the T in this thread, very specific nematodes that undergo a near closed loop life cycle, but the most common parasitic infections are found in dogs, cats, and ruminants that rarely if ever have infected food sources such as crickets or roaches in their diet.

Nematoda use direct and indirect infection methods of all sorts. Through eggs that have gone airborne, or probably the most common source of infection, through vectors. Nematodes infecting or infesting various insects that can't provide a viable full life cycle of the parasite and are only temporary hosts. This is how cattle and horses contract worms which is so common a deworming medication is regularly included in their feed regimen. Think of feed lot cattle and horses that never graze in pastures, contracting the worms through temporary vectors in the feed stocks or a short duration in the life cycle of the parasite where a certain stage of the larvae climbs plants.

Typical 'worm belly'. Unthrifty, unenergetic, ribs showing, distended belly, concave thighs, and loss of sheen to the coat.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

u rarely see this when u dont use crickets yea it can happen but if u just use roaches they dont infect roaches like they do crickets that dirty feed that kills

Yeah are roaches just tougher period?? I mean crickets are harder to raise I don’t know I haven’t? Chirping is annoying ehh. Roaches don’t chirp. !!

 

[aenigmatica8]

u rarely see this when u dont use crickets yea it can happen but if u just use roaches they dont infect roaches like they do crickets that dirty feed that kills

I’m definitely going to pay attention to feeders!