Nematode Questions

[aenigmatica8]

It finally happened to me. I got a Theraphosa blondi sling around two weeks ago. Yesterday I noticed it didn’t seem able to capture crickets. It wanted to but wasn’t agile enough. Today I decided to see what was going on, flipped it over, and to my horror, saw the dreaded whiteish clear liquid. To make sure, I opened the fangs under magnification and saw a nematode wriggling. As soon as I noticed this, I put the sling and it’s enclosure into the freezer. I noticed a few phorid flies hanging around the two enclosures of the T. blondi slings I purchased when I got them. Now I’m afraid that phorids were probably transmitting the nematodes. I’m very worried that other animals may be infected because the phorids were in their enclosures. I would be devastated if this affected my other animals. Any advice, or answers to the following questions would be very much appreciated:

How long can tarantulas go after being infected with nematodes before showing signs?

Should I be worried about soil harboring them?

Have you experienced nematodes and did they spread to other specimens?

What other precautions can I take, now that I had a confirmed case?

What is “quarantining?” Can nematodes locomote?

 

[cold blood]

instead of just killing it, I would have at least tried to get rid of them.....there is a thread somewhere here where people have been successful by using a saline solution.

Ive never had to deal with such a thing myself....but i am always reluctant to just give up and kill a t.

 

[aenigmatica8]

I’ve read about some antibiotics, but none are available to me without an Rx. I haven’t seen anything with saline, although I’ve heard that once the T has behavior symptoms and they’re coming out of its mouth, it’s usually too late. The worst thing would be for it to spread. It’s been about an hour or two in the freezer. If you have any ideas, speak now! Or it might be too late already.

 

[jbooth]

Letting things dry out significantly is all I can think of. And quarantine. They could be with the soil or whatever, I just got mites with a bag of soil. I second trying something before killing though. And personally I'd knock out with CO2 before freezing in case they feel it.

 

[cold blood]

2 hrs...its probably way too late...

I am not criticizing you for ending it, I get the fear of spreading.

 

[aenigmatica8]

Letting things dry out significantly is all I can think of. And quarantine. They could be with the soil or whatever, I just got mites with a bag of soil. I second trying something before killing though. And personally I'd knock out with CO2 before freezing in case they feel it.

I put all the tanks nearby in the freezer, so hoping that’ll help! I’ve read that fish nematodes need -4 F for 7 days to die, so I’m going to leave them in there for as long as possible. Unfortunately I don’t have any CO2, but I’ll look into it!

2 hrs...its probably way too late...

I am not criticizing you for ending it, I get the fear of spreading.

Probably. Thanks. Believe me it’s the last thing I’d want to do and I feel very bad for it. I just can’t chance it spreading and killing others. Tough decisions. I’ve tried to sanitize as much as possible. Will be keeping a close eye on everyone.

 

[jbooth]

Unfortunately I think a lot of the harmful nematodes are actually added by nurseries as "natural" pesticides for plants we use, or even to soils. I suspected I had some at one point so I looked into it and found that to be the most likely way to get them. But they are everywhere, just only some are harmful to Ts.

 

[cold blood]

good luck going forward.

 

[aenigmatica8]

Unfortunately I think a lot of the harmful nematodes are actually added by nurseries as "natural" pesticides for plants we use, or even to soils. I suspected I had some at one point so I looked into it and found that to be the most likely way to get them. But they are everywhere, just only some are harmful to Ts.

That’s very interesting because when I was doing research, I found a ton of articles on how to INTRODUCE nematodes to your garden as pest control! Yeesh. And then maybe the phorids spread it. I think you’re onto something. The substrate did appear to have soil in it when I bought it.

good luck going forward.

Thanks!! Really hoping this’ll be a one time thing…

 

[jbooth]

That’s very interesting because when I was doing research, I found a ton of articles on how to INTRODUCE nematodes to your garden as pest control! Yeesh. And then maybe the phorids spread it. I think you’re onto something. The substrate did appear to have soil in it when I bought it.

Yes, and then the myriad of commercially available nematode poisons to get rid of the ones you don't want in your garden, of which no doubt one is perfect and completely harmless to Ts.. good luck finding which one, both the species of nematode and the proper poison...

Maybe save the spider in alcohol so the nematodes can be later identified... There hasn't even been enough of this done I don't think, to know what nematodes we're even dealing with...

 

[aenigmatica8]

Maybe save the spider in alcohol so the nematodes can be later identified... There hasn't even been enough of this done I don't think, to know what nematodes we're even dealing with...

That’s a very good point. Unfortunately I don’t know anyone who could probably identify them, but I’ll ask around!

 

[Gilligan]

Unfortunately I think a lot of the harmful nematodes are actually added by nurseries as "natural" pesticides for plants we use, or even to soils. I suspected I had some at one point so I looked into it and found that to be the most likely way to get them. But they are everywhere, just only some are harmful to Ts.

The nematodes used in horticulture are different from the ones infecting T‘s. To my knowledge of the trade nematodes are not added to prepackaged soil in North America, one reason because they need specific care requirements, and the ones used in IPM are target species specific and do not infect tarantulas, unless the tarantulas are the target. Mycorrhizal fungi is added to soil commonly but nematodes used for pest prevention have to be separately bought. I have never heard about that being the most likely way to get them. From my years in the trade and being around the nematodes used while keeping tarantulas, I do not believe this is possible.

 

[aenigmatica8]

Yes, and then the myriad of commercially available nematode poisons to get rid of the ones you don't want in your garden, of which no doubt one is perfect and completely harmless to Ts.. good luck finding which one, both the species of nematode and the proper poison...

Maybe save the spider in alcohol so the nematodes can be later identified... There hasn't even been enough of this done I don't think, to know what nematodes we're even dealing with...

Hey so I did some research and talked to an expert and it seems that the nematodes that infect tarantulas are very specialized, and wouldn’t be the same ones that are used as pest control.

The nematodes used in horticulture are different from the ones infecting T‘s. To my knowledge of the trade nematodes are not added to prepackaged soil in North America, one reason because they need specific care requirements, and the ones used in IPM are target species specific and do not infect tarantulas, unless the tarantulas are the target. Mycorrhizal fungi is added to soil commonly but nematodes used for pest prevention have to be separately bought. I have never heard about that being the most likely way to get them. From my years in the trade and being around the nematodes used while keeping tarantulas, I do not believe this is possible.

It’s funny, I just found this out and came to share my findings but you’ve beaten me to it! Thanks for the info! What do you think about phorids spreading them? I don’t think they would be intermediate hosts but the nematodes could be spread via phoresis on their legs. This is apparently how one wild caught specimen being introduced to a collection can cause many to be infected.

 

[Gilligan]

It’s funny, I just found this out and came to share my findings but you’ve beaten me to it! Thanks for the info! What do you think about phorids spreading them? I don’t think they would be intermediate hosts but the nematodes could be spread via phoresis on their legs. This is apparently how one wild caught specimen being introduced to a collection can cause many to be infected.

I don't have any first hand experince with phorid flys and transmission so I cannot give an answer based on that. What I've read in research says it may be possible. Post #4 in the below thread talks about it.

Flies in cricket container! Toss?

I purchased one of those carry out cricket containers. When I took the cardboard off to open it, I noticed little flies in there. Based on previous posts, I know these are probably fungus gnats or phorid flies. I have read that phorid flies can carry nematodes so I have NOT opened the plastic...

arachnoboards.com

I am sorry you are dealing with this situation, I hope you can resolve it.

 

[viper69]

Unfortunately I think a lot of the harmful nematodes are actually added by nurseries as "natural" pesticides for plants we use, or even to soils. I suspected I had some at one point so I looked into it and found that to be the most likely way to get them. But they are everywhere, just only some are harmful to Ts.

harmful to what??

 

[Dry Desert]

Hey so I did some research and talked to an expert and it seems that the nematodes that infect tarantulas are very specialized, and wouldn’t be the same ones that are used as pest control.



It’s funny, I just found this out and came to share my findings but you’ve beaten me to it! Thanks for the info! What do you think about phorids spreading them? I don’t think they would be intermediate hosts but the nematodes could be spread via phoresis on their legs. This is apparently how one wild caught specimen being introduced to a collection can cause many to be infected.

Instead of just " chucking things in the freezer " why don't you carry out normal sensible basic procedures instead of chasing hyperthecical reasons it may have happened.

If you must have live plants in with your t then it's quite simple to thoroughly wash all the soil from the plants roots and leave to air dry.
Then by using fresh clean substrate, not sterilised, that will eliminate any possible introduction of any nasties.

There is obviously still the chance that the t came with it, then if spotted in time, although sometimes frowned upon, you could set up an ICU to monitor developments.

Then the " whatever " may exit on its own accord leaving the t unharmed.

 

[The Snark]

Hey so I did some research and talked to an expert and it seems that the nematodes that infect tarantulas are very specialized, and wouldn’t be the same ones that are used as pest control.

Since you spoke to an expert I assume you were warned nematodes can be extremely infectious. Prudence suggests all your animals should be quarantined individually for a full gestation period of the nematode.
Please keep in mind some nematodes reproduce at a rate of 1 million every 24 hours and eggs can easily go airborne.

 

[aenigmatica8]

I don't have any first hand experince with phorid flys and transmission so I cannot give an answer based on that. What I've read in research says it may be possible. Post #4 in the below thread talks about it.

Flies in cricket container! Toss?

I purchased one of those carry out cricket containers. When I took the cardboard off to open it, I noticed little flies in there. Based on previous posts, I know these are probably fungus gnats or phorid flies. I have read that phorid flies can carry nematodes so I have NOT opened the plastic...

arachnoboards.com

I am sorry you are dealing with this situation, I hope you can resolve it.

Thanks so much for the info!! So the phorids probably feed on the bacteria and nematode infected liquid around the T’s mouth and then go give it to other ones All I can hope is that the phorids hanging around the other spiders last week didn’t catch it yet. Thanks!!

 

[aenigmatica8]

Since you spoke to an expert I assume you were warned nematodes can be extremely infectious. Prudence suggests all your animals should be quarantined individually for a full gestation period of the nematode.
Please keep in mind some nematodes reproduce at a rate of 1 million every 24 hours and eggs can easily go airborne.

They actually didn’t seem to think they would be extremely infectious, or that they could be airborne. What kind of quarantining would you suggest?

 

[The Snark]

They actually didn’t seem to think they would be extremely infectious, or that they could be airborne. What kind of quarantining would you suggest?

Ordinary quarantine is isolate all potentially infected animals. Checking...; the common route of infection is through feeding on infected animals and through the book lungs from crawling over feces.