My B. boehmei turned out to be B. baumgarteni

[Hobo]

Boehmei: red carapace, red legs all the way down, dark 'swoosh' on tarsi

Baumgarteni: central portion of carapace is dark (similar to B. smithi), orange knees, fading to paler orange distally, orange 'swoosh' on tarsi.

Do I have this right?

That's the very question I want answered. Preferably from actual scientific journal/species descriptions and drawings/figures.
I could also be making a huge deal out of it (Just looking at the pictures, it would seem pretty obvious how to differentiate them : boemhei vs. baumgarteni from tarantula canada), but with breeding, you can't be too careful

But yeah, that seems to be how it is so far, although I've seen pictures of boehmei from credible and not so credible sources with some black on the carapace, as well as not uniformly red legs from the patella down.

In fact, I haven't seen any pics so far where the knees aren't more intensely colored than the rest of the leg. Both species seem to share this characteristic.

I agree with you on the had a boehmei all along. I mated her with a Boehmei mature male and she took him just fine. in fact took 3 insertions. She dropped a healthly sac with close to 800 slings. I sold many at 1st instar and I still have some that are still not at second instar. (they are sure taking their sweet time)

I also have the other variation of the boehmei just as Ryan showed. She was also mated with the same mature male and currently looks real gravid and has not dropped a sac yet. She is taking far longer to drop a sac compared to the other boehmei female.

800!
Sounds fun. Well, thanks for the info, Talon.

 

[Formerphobe]

Well, in my internet wanderings...
Guy Tansley makes note, "Many consider this species a hybrid.
." http://giantspiders.com/Brachypelma_species.html
Elsewhere (and I can't find the blasted reference now...) it is suggested that B. baumgarteni is a naturally occurring smithi X boehmei hybrid.
Looking at their ranges ( http://www.americanarachnology.org/JoA_Congress/JoA_v27_n1/arac_27_01_0196.pdf) , this could make sense. Of course this is an older paper and there may be more current info out there.

Off topic, but I also found reference that B. annitha and B. hamorii may be color variants of smithi.

Interesting puzzle...

 

[Hobo]

Well, in my internet wanderings...
Guy Tansley makes note, "Many consider this species a hybrid.
." http://giantspiders.com/Brachypelma_species.html
Elsewhere (and I can't find the blasted reference now...) it is suggested that B. baumgarteni is a naturally occurring smithi X boehmei hybrid.
Looking at their ranges ( http://www.americanarachnology.org/JoA_Congress/JoA_v27_n1/arac_27_01_0196.pdf) , this could make sense. Of course this is an older paper and there may be more current info out there.

Off topic, but I also found reference that B. annitha and B. hamorii may be color variants of smithi.

Interesting puzzle...

There was DNA analysis done on the baumgarteni, and it is not a hybrid species. I don't have the actual souce, but Zoltan said it in this thread, and he is a credible source, IMO.
If their differences aren't as clear-cut as it seems, there may be some actual boehmei x baumgarteni hybrids in the hobby.

 

[sjl197]

Before this goes anywhere, B.baumgarteni has natural populations that are isolated from B.boehmei. Several years of fieldwork in coastal mexico taught me and other collaborators that, building on solid foundation of Rick West, Arturo Locht etc, not internet searches. Forget old internet rumour, and yes, some of the data in Locht 1999 is outdated, thats what happens in 12 years.

Both B.baumgarteni and B.boehmei have variant colours and patterns both in nature and in captivity. Both myself and other collaborators have seen spiders with various carapace colours and markings in the natural ranges of each these named species, so carapace colour is a poor diagnostic.

Infact the natural colour variants can be much more extreme than any i saw in captivity. But, the original pics that started this thread look likely to fit much better to B.boehmei than other. And, it is important that the female of B.baumgarteni has never been described, and so what are we comparing hobby spermathecae to? Further, i dont want to see any of the hobby forms described as the female, it should be collected by mexicans at the type locality (but which placement is slightly misleadingly in the male description, as for many european Brachypelma descriptions).

Please lets not even start discussing B.annitha etc here, the questions doesnt need more internet speculation. If you guys want to know, perhaps look into help support some mexican students to do more fieldwork.

 

[Formerphobe]

Hmmm, well, "old internet rumor" has Rick West's name written all over it. And, as he says, more research is needed. At this particular writing http://www.tarantulasdemexico.com/brachyrickwest.htm, Mr. West states, "DNA profiling of the Brachypelma has proven to be an unreliable taxonomic tool [though recent research is promising]."


I try to restrict my 'internet rumors' to reliable sources. Sometimes forums such as this raise interesting questions, even if the 'answers' and speculations aren't documentable. Even with continued research by the "T gods", none of the taxonomy will ever be written in stone. At best, they will only agree to disagree.

 

[Najakeeper]

Taxonomy is an and always will be an incomplete science, it is a glorified form of stamp collecting. It is there to help us understand life not to complicate it

 

[Motorkar]

Talon I don't care wich species you got, but she looks stunning!

 

[YellowBrickRoad]

I took some time to read thru some old posts last night and after reading this thread for the 80 millionith time, I'm a little concerned about what T I have. Anyone care to shed a little light or give there opinion? Here are some pictures of 2 males that I own. Both are on the smaller side of 4in. I also have a couple females, one is eating and the other one is just hard to get to. All in all they look the same as one and other. let me know what you think, baumgarteni or boehmei?

B. baumgarteni #1
View attachment 94590

View attachment 94591

View attachment 94592

B. baumgarteni #2
View attachment 94593