MOST venomous?

[Crotalus]

Originally posted by Palespider
Sounds fun
I was reading on the net that when they go into their defensive posture they'll actually turn and watch you as you move around. And that they are one of the only species that 'wants' to bite you. Talk about evil ;P

The one I may be getting is said to be in the Ctenidae genus, and he's pretty sure it's a Phoneutria sp., but not possitive on the species. Still researching, haven't decided if it's a good idea yet.

Jim B.

Acctually as for any animal they rather run then fight, that goes for every spider I been working with (hmm except maybe my Phormictopus atrichomatus... she had some real issues...). The Phoneutria do bite several times if cornered. I dont know if they "want" to bite you more then any other spider that get defensive but they do get their message out when they get into defense posture with the first two leg pairs straight up and the body slowly moving from side to side.
Gotta love them!

/Lelle

 

[Palespider]

That's sounds like it would make an interesting video clip Lelle. <hint, hint>

Jim B.

 

[bumhead]

id go with the sydney funnelweb, but thats coz i see them all the time. they have an amazing bite that, whilst im not sure about leather boots, can easily punture your fingernail, mainly due to the downward force when they "bite" i think there were also a few studies recently that said that mouse spiders (i must apologise for my lack of scientifc names, but im only a beginner) may be almost as deadly as the sydney funnelweb.

 

[bumhead]

that was a female red headed mousey, heres a male. notice how they seem similar to the sydney funnelweb. they believed that many funnelweb bite were actually eastern mouse spiders, they do look similar to the untrained eye. *edit to add* thats actually an eastern mal mousey, should have made that clear

 

[Crotalus]

Both pictures looks like mousespiders, Missulena sp.
And no, they are not as potent as Atrax robustus. However Hadronyche infensa , another funnel web species, are even more potent then A. robustus.

/Lelle

 

[Venom]

I agree they are not nearly as venomous as Atrax, but the few documented cases where someone was bitten by Missulena sp, showed that they can produce Atrax-like symptoms, and even respond to Atrax anti-venom, implying at least a similarity in their venoms. Due to the rarity of Missulena bites, there has been no large-scale observation of Missulena sp. envenomation symptoms. So we really don't have much information on what their venom contains and is capable of. IMO, though, any Hexathelid deserves a healthy dose of respect.

 

[ChoJinn]

and the winner is...

According to Erstellt Tox-Mü Wagner/Kleber Juli 1998 ,

Phoneutria had a .

34 microgram/g LD50 for mice = .00034g/kg LD50.

Atrax had a

20-35 microgram/g LD50 for mice = .00020 - .00035g/kg LD50



so when it comes to lethal venom, atrax is the worst, usually.

However i would MUCH rather deal with a funnel web than a phoneutria. I've had both P.fera and P.nigriventer and I can't imagine anything more unpredictable and fast. Yeesh.

also, the fingernail an atrax robustus bit through? it belonged to an infant.

go phoneutria!

 

[bumhead]

what about the northern, or tree dwelling funnel web? i heard there were suspisions that they may be more deadly than the sydney funnelweb.

 

[Steve Nunn]

Re: and the winner is...

Originally posted by ChoJinn

so when it comes to lethal venom, atrax is the worst, usually.

However i would MUCH rather deal with a funnel web than a phoneutria. I've had both P.fera and P.nigriventer and I can't imagine anything more unpredictable and fast. Yeesh.

also, the fingernail an atrax robustus bit through? it belonged to an infant.

Hello,
Atrax actually sits at about number three on the most venomous list. Both Hadronyche infensa and Hadronyche formidabilis possess more potent venom, in that order. The entire top ten consists of Australian funnel webs.

The funnel webs can also bite through boot leather, this is a documented fact. I can garantee you that I'd sooner deal with phoneutria spp. any day of the week, bites may be frequent, but they rarely, if ever, kill (quote from Dr Raven). Prior to the antivenine, funnel web bites were indeed considered a death sentence.

It's not even a competition

And once the mouse spider venom is fully researched, I think you'll find the entire top twenty most venomous will all be endemic to Australia.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Crotalus]

Re: Re: and the winner is...

Originally posted by Steve Nunn
Hello,
Atrax actually sits at about number three on the most venomous list. Both Hadronyche infensa and Hadronyche formidabilis possess more potent venom, in that order. The entire top ten consists of Australian funnel webs.

The funnel webs can also bite through boot leather, this is a documented fact. I can garantee you that I'd sooner deal with phoneutria spp. any day of the week, bites may be frequent, but they rarely, if ever, kill (quote from Dr Raven). Prior to the antivenine, funnel web bites were indeed considered a death sentence.

It's not even a competition

And once the mouse spider venom is fully researched, I think you'll find the entire top twenty most venomous will all be endemic to Australia.

Cheers,
Steve

As far as packing, transfer etc I rather deal with funnel webs. I dealt with both. Nothing in the arachnid world can compare to a Phoneutria sets off in a frantic bolt!
Actually I doubt funnel webs can penetrate a leather boot - not many venomous snakes can do that. If a Crotalus atrox cant get through my Doc Martins - no spider can

Phoneutria do kill people but not many per year true. However, funnel webs do not kill anyone since the 80ies right?
Phoneutria ssp. are very common in South America and especially in heavy populated areas in Rio, Sao paolu etc where P. nigriventer occur. So many end up inside houses and people get bitten.

Its not just a matter on how potent the venom are - more factors have to be considered. How common they are, size, nature of it etc

/Lelle

 

[Steve Nunn]

Re: Re: Re: and the winner is...

Lelle you're talking about danger, not venom potency. I'm talking about venom potency. The only reason nobody has died since the 80's is for one reason only, the production of the antivenine. LD50 testing doesn't mean squat anyway, it never did.

And they have bitten through boot leather my friend, it is documented. This isn't something I found on the net, or heard about on some tv doco, but came from Raven himself, who has described Hadronyche spp. before, the source is as reliable as it gets.

Now you tell me, living where you do (where there is NO FW antivenine), which would you prefer to be bitten by, a funnel web or banana spider???? I know which one I'd go for....

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Crotalus]

Re: Re: Re: Re: and the winner is...

Originally posted by Steve Nunn
Lelle you're talking about danger, not venom potency. I'm talking about venom potency. The only reason nobody has died since the 80's is for one reason only, the production of the antivenine. LD50 testing doesn't mean squat anyway, it never did.

And they have bitten through boot leather my friend, it is documented. This isn't something I found on the net, or heard about on some tv doco, but came from Raven himself, who has described Hadronyche spp. before, the source is as reliable as it gets.

Now you tell me, living where you do (where there is NO FW antivenine), which would you prefer to be bitten by, a funnel web or banana spider???? I know which one I'd go for....

Cheers,
Steve

Yes but drop by drop is still Latrodectus sp I think. I do think when it comes to a potential lethal animal more then just the venoms potency must be considered.

You must have bad leather in your boots down there! ;-) I would like to read about that, is there a article about the incident?

There are no serum for either species in Sweden. But in UK they got Atrax serum, and probably in Germany they got Phoneutria serum.

/Lelle

 

[Steve Nunn]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: and the winner is...

Originally posted by Crotalus
Yes but drop by drop is still Latrodectus sp I think.

Are you using LD50 as a source? Good to hear that Latrodectus can kill mice quicker, I'll safeguard my gerbils ;P

You must have bad leather in your boots down there! ;-) I would like to read about that, is there a article about the incident?

I'll see what I can find out Lelle

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Crotalus]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: and the winner is...

Originally posted by Steve Nunn
Are you using LD50 as a source? Good to hear that Latrodectus can kill mice quicker, I'll safeguard my gerbils ;P



I'll see what I can find out Lelle

Cheers,
Steve

No i dont use LD50 - thats why I compared Phoneutria sp. and australian hexathelids as they are most dangerous spiders around.
And considered not only the venom but other factors aswell.
Its the same arguments when I compare venomous snakes - not just venom potency but a array of factors. I think to be focusing only on venom potency is "old fashioned" , if you know what I mean.

But do you feel like we talked about this before.. lol ;-)

/Lelle

 

[Steve Nunn]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: and the winner is...

Originally posted by Crotalus

But do you feel like we talked about this before.. lol ;-)

LMAO, how many times now??? =D

 

[Crotalus]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: and the winner is...

Originally posted by Steve Nunn
LMAO, how many times now??? =D

LOL I have lost count

BTW, do you know if its possible to import arachnids legally from PNG?

/Lelle

 

[G. Carnell]

i saw a pic of one of those b******ds it had half its lefs up and half on the ground, aggressive little thing, are all "wandering spiders" this dangerous? the DWA in the uk have banned all of these spiders, so i guess i cant get my hands on any anyway


edit: oops didnt see that there was more than one page, please disregard this post

 

[Crotalus]

Originally posted by George Carnell
i saw a pic of one of those b******ds it had half its lefs up and half on the ground, aggressive little thing, are all "wandering spiders" this dangerous? the DWA in the uk have banned all of these spiders, so i guess i cant get my hands on any anyway


edit: oops didnt see that there was more than one page, please disregard this post

I´ve seen that show. They put the spider on the table then it bolted down the table and the guy put his foot in front of it. Offcourse it ran up his leg.
Its just the genus Phoneutria that have a potent venom, most ctenids are harmless such as Cupennius sp.

/Lelle

 

[WeatherStar4000]

Brazilian Wandering Spider

How venemous would this spider be compared to the Atrax Robustus? The Guiness book of world records quotes this spider as being the most toxic. Only .0006 mg is enough to kill a mouse? I am interested in getting a H. Maculata. Does anyone know how aggressive this particular tarantula is? Can they jump? How bad of a bite would you incur if bitten on a vein or blood vessel? Any suggestions would be helpful!

 

[arachnoid]

Yikes!

I couldn't do this, even if I were experienced and you paid me...

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