Just a point on Sexing out Females for people

[Whompyjawed]

You know, when you think about it, you wouldn't sell/buy a car or computer, not knowing the specs. And if a car salesman were to tell you, "Weeeell it varies, you get what you get, roll the dice, it may last you 30 years, it may last you 2." That's complete BULL!! Anybody serious about what they are doing will not leave it up to chance. Personally, as I become more and more involved in the hobby and begin to breed and trade, I see myself ONLY dealing in sexed juvenile specimens, you know, as far as my magnifying glass will allow me to see, ha!

So it may not be worth the dealer's time, their loss. It will be worth the hobbyists'.

 

[jayefbe]

You know, when you think about it, you wouldn't sell/buy a car or computer, not knowing the specs. And if a car salesman were to tell you, "Weeeell it varies, you get what you get, roll the dice, it may last you 30 years, it may last you 2." That's complete BULL!! Anybody serious about what they are doing will not leave it up to chance. Personally, as I become more and more involved in the hobby and begin to breed and trade, I see myself ONLY dealing in sexed juvenile specimens, you know, as far as my magnifying glass will allow me to see, ha!

So it may not be worth the dealer's time, their loss. It will be worth the hobbyists'.

Then don't buy from Ken. Buy from a hobbyist that has exactly what you want. At least you know you are getting exactly what you pay for when you order from Ken.

Personally, I totally understand Ken's perspective and I applaud him for it. He simply can not sex hundreds of T's. There simply are not enough hours in the day. So if someone asks for a sexed female from his large batch of unsexed T's, his answer is no. Not because he's lazy, not because he's trying to screw over hobbyists, but because he's trying NOT to screw over his customers. He understands that sexing a few females only skews the odds towards males for everyone else that is willing to roll the dice. He doesn't sex out females because he wants his customers to receive truly unsexed tarantulas. Not the leftover males after all the females were picked out.

In my experience, my own burgeoning collection has been very male heavy and I don't think it's just dumb luck. Intentionally, semi-intentionally or through inadvertent actions that skewed the ratio, I have ended up with more than my share of males. So, now I'm either buying guaranteed females, newly hatched slings, or going with Ken.

 

[Big B]

I feel if it is a sling you get what you get as they are inexpensive compared to adults/juvies and are hard to sex "also to keep the 50/50 possibility" . However if it is a juvenile or an adult, you are paying more money and should get what you want, if not there are plenty of other sellers/dealers that will gladly accept money. I think this is fair?

 

[jebbewocky]

I think selling juvies as sexed OR unsexed is fine, as long as it is consistent. Ken makes several good points. His business model, and size of inventory makes guaranteeing the sex impossible to do consistently, and if he did it occasionally then everyone else who buys unsexed is more likely to get males.

If another dealer has a smaller inventory, and sexes everything--and charges more for females and less for males then that's a different business model. Either is fair, as long as it is consistent.

 

[x Mr Awesome x]

I think selling juvies as sexed OR unsexed is fine, as long as it is consistent. Ken makes several good points. His business model, and size of inventory makes guaranteeing the sex impossible to do consistently, and if he did it occasionally then everyone else who buys unsexed is more likely to get males.

If another dealer has a smaller inventory, and sexes everything--and charges more for females and less for males then that's a different business model. Either is fair, as long as it is consistent.

I agree with this. I suppose since Ken had expressed his feelings about it and he sees it as a problem I'll just try to get things that aren't advertised on his stock list somewhere else instead of troubling him for it. I'll continue to purchase my slings through him but will save other purchases for someone else.

 

[Obelisk]

I buy slings knowing (well, assuming) that there's a roughly 50% chance that it's a male. It's just part of the hobby, and it's how these animals are made.

It would suck to find out that any of my T's are male, but if any of them are, (and several of them probably are), then I just look at the bright side: I'll soon have empty enclosures for more inverts

 

[Pociemon]

I buy mostly pokes and haplopelmas. I keep all pokes (except metalicca) communal, so i normally buy 4 or 6 T´s and i can sex them along the way, and ship the ones i dont need. This summer i had to buy 6 unsexed haplopelma hainanum slings, because getting a confirmed male is almost impossible. I just got lucky and i now have 2 males, 2 extra females and 2 still unsexed juvies.
As slings most T´s are cheap, so buy some extras if you want to be sure of a female.

But with pokies with a LS around 2 inches they are not that time consuming to sex them, they are not that difficult to sex, and they dont need to be taken out for sexing them.

 

[AudreyElizabeth]

I don't care whether they are male or female myself, especially when it comes to slings. Sure females are nice to get, but if any of my slings turn out to be males I'll be happy to sell, trade, or do a 50/50 with someone. Or, if it is species I'd like to breed, shop around for an appropriate sized female. Just part of the fun.

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

Ken, If you recall, I was one of the people who asked for a sexed invert. Specifically D. Diadema. I figured that because they were very easy to sex, simply by eyeballing, it wouldn't have been that large a request. I'm not that experienced in ordering from dealers, which is why, in my naivety, I asked if you could get me a female. However If I remember correctly, you would not sell me a female, unless it had a "Defect" a broken leg or antennae, simply because that meant you had to wait for it to molt out to sell it to someone else. I asked if I could get a discount because it was injured and you said you were going to ask the same price as a normal one, because you were sexing it out. So I understand that you want to maintain that random roll of the dice sort of deal, but apparently, I completely blew my chances of obtaining a a healthy female from you, purely because I asked for one and someone else, who may not have asked, or even cared is going to get it. A normal female, for the same price as I am paying for an injured one. I decided, after some thought, that it didn't sound quite right and I didn't want to mate an injured female anyways.

Sexing other types of inverts is different as there is not a life span issue involved. Most people buying the tailless don't care as much but some people do want pairs. The reason I had said I could get you one with broken antennae is because I was just about out of females that were whole. In fact I am just about out of all whole tailless whips and will only be selling the broken ones soon. Not cause of the issue at hand here. We are talking tarantulas not other inverts where I do different things for different species.

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

I wouldn't think it would be unreasonable to ask for a sexed individual if the buyer is willing to pay extra for the seller's time and trouble.

thats just the dishonest asspect. lets say I have 20 t's. Well 10 people contact me willing to pay to sex out females. Now I have 10 t's I am still selling as unsexed. Then someone buys the remaining 10 thinking well I will probably get about 5 females or so. Now that unsuspecting person most likely bought 10 males if the ratios were even.

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

I agree with this. I suppose since Ken had expressed his feelings about it and he sees it as a problem I'll just try to get things that aren't advertised on his stock list somewhere else instead of troubling him for it. I'll continue to purchase my slings through him but will save other purchases for someone else.

I totally agree with this myself. If I am not taking the time to sex out a group of juvis and someone wants a female they can usually find it from a hobbyist somewhere and they should I hope that one day I have more time and can sex out more of the older tarantulas. I also have some things to learn myself like sexing avics and pokies which I can't seem to do acurately without sheds. Once I figure those out I might start sexing those out more often as they get larger.

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

span

Quick question for you breeders out there. If somebody were to buy a group of 5+ (just pulled that number out of thin air to give you an idea), would you be willing to give them a span of multiple sizes if requested? I just ask because many people believe that males grow much faster and, even as slings, may be larger than the females from the same sac.

I don't usually notice huge differences in sizes but if someone is buying multiples I would not see a problem with this really.

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

offering money to sex

As a retailer, how do you feel about somebody offering you a little more than the listed price to find them a female? I've done that in the past, and the seller was agreeable to it, but just curious how you feel.

Thats the whole problem of this thread its usually dishonest when dealing in tarantulas.

 

[pinktoe23]

Thats the whole problem of this thread its usually dishonest when dealing in tarantulas.

I can understand both sides of the argument but this part I'm seriously not getting. How is it dishonest? As a business dealer you'd be getting more money in for the time and trouble of sexing it and the customer gets exactly what they're looking for. A win-win situation for you and this type of buyer.

I'm not saying for you to do this with every single specimen you have in inventory as you've answered why you can't, but why not do exceptions for those customers that do ask and are willing to pay more for that female?

 

[Nerri1029]

I can understand both sides of the argument but this part I'm seriously not getting. How is it dishonest? As a business dealer you'd be getting more money in for the time and trouble of sexing it and the customer gets exactly what they're looking for. A win-win situation for you and this type of buyer.

I'm not saying for you to do this with every single specimen you have in inventory as you've answered why you can't, but why not do exceptions for those customers that do ask and are willing to pay more for that female?

OK let's try it again.

Ken has 100 slings. ( let's assume 50 males 50 females )

a few people send him extra $$ he pulls out 15 females for these people.
NOW he has 50 males and 35 females.

THEN

You order a sling, YOU do not have a 50% chance of getting a female.
You have a 41% chance of getting a Female or a 59% chance of getting a Male.

THAT is the crux of the problem here.

 

[Xian]

Well, you're assuming that 50% are of each gender which may or may not be the case. If people want to pay more for a female then charge them double and send them one of each.
Or even better for the seller, charge them double, and if they don't want the male, set it aside and sell it as a male.
As I stated earlier, I enjoy buying more than one sling, and like not knowing, that's part of the hobby for me.
There is the old saying in business, 'The customer is always right.'

 

[NateTheGreat]

OK let's try it again.

Ken has 100 slings. ( let's assume 50 males 50 females )

a few people send him extra $$ he pulls out 15 females for these people.
NOW he has 50 males and 35 females.

THEN

You order a sling, YOU do not have a 50% chance of getting a female.
You have a 41% chance of getting a Female or a 59% chance of getting a Male.

THAT is the crux of the problem here.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't see how this is true at all.

Using the same logic, it's only a 50% chance that each individual T he sexes out is female. So, odds are he will have to go through 30 T's to find those 15 females.

Now Ken has a 15 sexed juvenile females and 15 sexed juvenile males.

The remaining 85 unsold T's should not all be sold as unsexed, as you say, because they are not all unsexed.

 

[paul fleming]

He is only going to to keep aside the females he wants,the rest of the males are going back into oblivion....lol
Seriously,if it was me,I would not keep or mark the males,they would just be going back into any old pots or tubs......they would be unrecognizable from the rest.

 

[dtknow]

Now...what could be done is that he sexes out 30 slings of 100. Lets say he gets 15 males and 15 females.

He can sell the females as females, and the males as males. The remaining spiders(70) would still be unsexed.

(however, going through to get a definite female, and putting back probable males, would be dishonest).

 

[paul fleming]

Females get sexed (if you want to pay extra) and males are always "unsexed"...as slings anyway.
If you want a male or female,why not wait till they are SA and pay premium prices instead of wanting a good deal on them as female slings.
I really think if someone gets upset at having a male instead of a female,they have no part in this hobby.
They are all spiders.
How about we start doing the same with our kids ?