- Joined
- Nov 10, 2007
- Messages
- 3,797
Exactly, sexing all the females, selling those...then take the remaining males and selling them as unsexed!!
Just a point on Sexing out Females for people
- Thread starter KenTheBugGuy
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2009
- Messages
- 909
I agree BOTH Rob-n-Ken!
When I see unsexed 2 1/2" - 3" T's for sale.......I sure do wonder why:?
They could have been sexed by then, unless last molt found destroyed.
Breeders/sellers like yourselves, I feel Confident in practices.
I question All unsexed above 2 1/4"
The young *pair* idea is fair, But that male will mature quicker, :? Probably too soon!
Best to raise a couple different age/size Groups.......To assure better match.
- Jason
When I see unsexed 2 1/2" - 3" T's for sale.......I sure do wonder why:?
They could have been sexed by then, unless last molt found destroyed.
Breeders/sellers like yourselves, I feel Confident in practices.
I question All unsexed above 2 1/4"
The young *pair* idea is fair, But that male will mature quicker, :? Probably too soon!
Best to raise a couple different age/size Groups.......To assure better match.
- Jason
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2009
- Messages
- 466
Quick question for you breeders out there. If somebody were to buy a group of 5+ (just pulled that number out of thin air to give you an idea), would you be willing to give them a span of multiple sizes if requested? I just ask because many people believe that males grow much faster and, even as slings, may be larger than the females from the same sac.
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2009
- Messages
- 449
So I guess I'm going to be the only one to somewhat disagree about this? I guess I'm fine with that, not to ruffle feathers though. It should be stated that I have bought from both Rob and Ken with excellent results from each. Here's the flip. I'm at this point in time only interested in the acquisition of tarantulas to collect, not breed, not do breeding loans, and not to be a reseller. I have a limit of 15 tarantulas in total that I'm wanting to keep. I don't want to be anymore involved with the various elements of the hobby than to just grow attached to my girls and nurture them to grow and to document and enjoy the experience. If I call Ken or email, and I have, requesting a female of the ones that he has advertised it is simply because I don't want to have to get rid of that t down the road to replace with a female that will actually make me happy and satisfied. To clarify, I have always paid extra to assure getting a female. I'm not asking to pay bottom dollar for a female that has the same asking price as a male. As a matter of fact I'd pay more to save myself the pain of having to ship a male through trade and lose a bunch of money. Wanting a female is not a bad thing. The one time I'd asked Ken for a to verify a female was for a C. marshalli or horned baboon. These are easily identifiable from males. That order included a large female P. formosa and in total was over $200 with shipping. I'm happy to pay such a large sum for specimens I know I won't have to bother parting with down the road. I've also bought t's as sexed females only to check a molt later and be disappointed. Man did that suck. $65 for a supposed female A. genic plus $30 shipping and got $22 for it on a trade towards a large female genic that I paid $140 for. Ken isn't guilty for that one but I think I make the point that I want to get what I'm being told I'm paying for and I'm sorry if I'm asking ahead of time to do so.
I also don't for a second believe the argument stating that there's all of a sudden not going to be any males around. That is a joke! Most people buy slings and of those people there will always be males around. If there is a shortage than why not take advantage of your own situation and maintain a supply of males to sell at an up charge to breeders, you know, people actually interested in undertaking the responsibility for pleasure or for profit? Also I have reasoning for not wanting males; I'm not going to give them the life they deserve. They're going to be short lived and die without having the opportunity to breed. That just plain sucks. And my final point as to why I don't want any males. Do I need to remind anyone that shipping t's through USPS is a federal offense and is not 'allowed' through other couriers? The suppliers/breeders are the ones that should have the responsibility of moving these guys around, not me.
Ken has over 200 t's in stock. Some of the t's listed as females carry a hefty price and I don't mind paying that. For the species that you don't have a female listed for I would try to offer you business because I like you and would like to give you first crack at it. All I can do is inquire to see if you have what I seek and if you say no or that you don't do that than I shall scour the for sale section trying to get what I want.
I'm just a hobbyist who doesn't want the burden of having to unload t's later. Don't hate me for that!
-ben
I also don't for a second believe the argument stating that there's all of a sudden not going to be any males around. That is a joke! Most people buy slings and of those people there will always be males around. If there is a shortage than why not take advantage of your own situation and maintain a supply of males to sell at an up charge to breeders, you know, people actually interested in undertaking the responsibility for pleasure or for profit? Also I have reasoning for not wanting males; I'm not going to give them the life they deserve. They're going to be short lived and die without having the opportunity to breed. That just plain sucks. And my final point as to why I don't want any males. Do I need to remind anyone that shipping t's through USPS is a federal offense and is not 'allowed' through other couriers? The suppliers/breeders are the ones that should have the responsibility of moving these guys around, not me.
Ken has over 200 t's in stock. Some of the t's listed as females carry a hefty price and I don't mind paying that. For the species that you don't have a female listed for I would try to offer you business because I like you and would like to give you first crack at it. All I can do is inquire to see if you have what I seek and if you say no or that you don't do that than I shall scour the for sale section trying to get what I want.
I'm just a hobbyist who doesn't want the burden of having to unload t's later. Don't hate me for that!
-ben
Whompyjawed
Arachnopeon
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2009
- Messages
- 19
Gotta disagree here. 
Ken, If you recall, I was one of the people who asked for a sexed invert. Specifically D. Diadema. I figured that because they were very easy to sex, simply by eyeballing, it wouldn't have been that large a request. I'm not that experienced in ordering from dealers, which is why, in my naivety, I asked if you could get me a female. However If I remember correctly, you would not sell me a female, unless it had a "Defect" a broken leg or antennae, simply because that meant you had to wait for it to molt out to sell it to someone else. I asked if I could get a discount because it was injured and you said you were going to ask the same price as a normal one, because you were sexing it out. So I understand that you want to maintain that random roll of the dice sort of deal, but apparently, I completely blew my chances of obtaining a a healthy female from you, purely because I asked for one and someone else, who may not have asked, or even cared is going to get it. A normal female, for the same price as I am paying for an injured one. I decided, after some thought, that it didn't sound quite right and I didn't want to mate an injured female anyways.
On another point, "Unsexed" Is an easy way for people, who have sexed their T's as a male from a molt, to pass them off for a higher price, which is EXTREMELY dishonest but more than likely, a very common occurrence in this hobby. From experience, I have concluded, anything 3" or more and "Unsexed" is "Male" to me. [Edit] I skipped some of the comments, but it seems you guys have the idea.
I feel somewhat responsible for your post, and I wanted to shed some light on my point of view, not to upset anyone. I respect you all for your commitment to your T's and to the hobby.
Ken, If you recall, I was one of the people who asked for a sexed invert. Specifically D. Diadema. I figured that because they were very easy to sex, simply by eyeballing, it wouldn't have been that large a request. I'm not that experienced in ordering from dealers, which is why, in my naivety, I asked if you could get me a female. However If I remember correctly, you would not sell me a female, unless it had a "Defect" a broken leg or antennae, simply because that meant you had to wait for it to molt out to sell it to someone else. I asked if I could get a discount because it was injured and you said you were going to ask the same price as a normal one, because you were sexing it out. So I understand that you want to maintain that random roll of the dice sort of deal, but apparently, I completely blew my chances of obtaining a a healthy female from you, purely because I asked for one and someone else, who may not have asked, or even cared is going to get it. A normal female, for the same price as I am paying for an injured one. I decided, after some thought, that it didn't sound quite right and I didn't want to mate an injured female anyways.
On another point, "Unsexed" Is an easy way for people, who have sexed their T's as a male from a molt, to pass them off for a higher price, which is EXTREMELY dishonest but more than likely, a very common occurrence in this hobby. From experience, I have concluded, anything 3" or more and "Unsexed" is "Male" to me. [Edit] I skipped some of the comments, but it seems you guys have the idea.
I feel somewhat responsible for your post, and I wanted to shed some light on my point of view, not to upset anyone. I respect you all for your commitment to your T's and to the hobby.
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2007
- Messages
- 3,797
Ben, I was talking more about slings, everyone wants a female...I don't hate you for that my friend!!!
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2005
- Messages
- 4,494
If you sexed out all your stock you would get stuck with tons of males nobody would buy lol!I will agree tho that trying to sex hundreds of spiders is a serious task and does take a lot of time that most breeders,dealers don't have!
-Chris
-Chris
Whompyjawed
Arachnopeon
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2009
- Messages
- 19
Not true, people buy males. I'm looking for some. Also, if you think about it like that, it leads to the conclusion that you want to push males more than females and that doesn't seem very honest to me.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2007
- Messages
- 673
Not true. Obtaining males of high-end species is often extremely difficult (just look at P. smithi). People often have females that go months into their molt cycle and then end up not being bred because they couldn't find a male.
Oh and to add... sexing out your stock does not necessarily mean loss of profit. A female can fetch twice as much or more as a male so it all evens out in the end.
unprofessional
Arachnopeon
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2007
- Messages
- 22
As a retailer, how do you feel about somebody offering you a little more than the listed price to find them a female? I've done that in the past, and the seller was agreeable to it, but just curious how you feel.
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2008
- Messages
- 884
generally, in my pet store, when im selling a T, if its sexable i will not do so til after the purchase, i in the past have had people ask me to sex prior to purchase and then i realized they were fishing. so now its u buy the T and i will let u know what it is simply to make sure u know for your own keeping. i find that people are very considerate of this policy and sometimes even commend me for it. If im looking for a male or female i will just ask someone "hey do u have a confirmed female _____________ (fill in blank)". Ken is a very reputable seller and i feel that we owe it to him to do what he does and not give grief about it...if he wants to sex cool, if not thats totally fine in my book, ill still be buying from him.
:clap::clap: kudos ken! :clap::clap:
:clap::clap: kudos ken! :clap::clap:
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2009
- Messages
- 1,349
This still brings up the problem of lowering other people's odds for receiving a female when they buy an "unsexed" tarantula.
I personally no longer buy anything larger than a couple inches when it comes to unsexed T's. If it's larger than a couple inches and it's advertised as 'unsexed' I gotta assume it's just the leftover males.
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2009
- Messages
- 941
I keep pokie communes and when I buy 6 or more slings,I don't want them sexed.I never have plans to breed them and it adds to the surprise to see what I have when they get bigger.
When they get to SA and adult,I normally sell them on anyway and then it is no problem for buyers to have the gender they want.I get the buzz from seeing them develop and doing a good job looking after them.
I really think that slings should be bought as slings and you just take what you get.
So far,it is normally 50/50 anyway for me so no complaints.
On another point,some of the low end spider males are getting harder to get.I have seen a lot of adverts for males of H.gigas and P.fasciata over here so it is not just high end spiders being affected.I am sure there are a lot more species where there are not so many males available too.
Paul
When they get to SA and adult,I normally sell them on anyway and then it is no problem for buyers to have the gender they want.I get the buzz from seeing them develop and doing a good job looking after them.
I really think that slings should be bought as slings and you just take what you get.
So far,it is normally 50/50 anyway for me so no complaints.
On another point,some of the low end spider males are getting harder to get.I have seen a lot of adverts for males of H.gigas and P.fasciata over here so it is not just high end spiders being affected.I am sure there are a lot more species where there are not so many males available too.
Paul
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2009
- Messages
- 449
This just seems like there are three camps: People wanting to raise unsexed slings for the surprise factor and don't mind keeping tons of t's, those that want females as pets that maybe want to breed and maybe don't, and people that do want males for breeding purposes. So, why not just offer accurate labeling of each category so people can get what they want? I've always wondered why the online retailers don't go through the trouble of sexing juvie sized t's? People would get what they want and would be willing to pay more for the females. Like someone said earlier, it would balance your profits out in the end. I always see mature males advertised with a little bit more for their asking price so why not here too? For some reason in this hobby a lot of people like to pay for the thrill of the surprise, which is cool, but I for one simply want what I want and not have to bother with something else. Being stuck with t's you don't want really really sucks and getting rid of them sucks even more than that. I'm not in the invertebrate breeding/retail business so I don't know what to suggest for you in terms of what to do with your excess males. Maybe do what you expect us to do and try breeding loans or seek out females to breed with your males. It just seems to me that this decision shouldn't be forced on the consumer if they're willing to pay more to avoid it. This really seems like the only market where there is a sort of logic to convincing the consumer to not buy what they want but settle for something else and that being okay. Just give us what we're wanting to pay for!
Someone also mentioned being a shortage of P.smithi males but isn't there a shortage overall? It would just seem to me that if you had an intent to breed than it would be most advantageous for you to buy lots of unsexed slings and raise them yourself to ensure males and females. I'll continue to discriminate because I have no interest in that.
I really want to add that everyone is entitled to run their business the way they see fit and I'm not trying to tell anyone how to do their jobs. Maybe someone would like to enter the trade with this marketing intention to better serve the more picky of us out there! Great thread though. Keep the debates coming!
Someone also mentioned being a shortage of P.smithi males but isn't there a shortage overall? It would just seem to me that if you had an intent to breed than it would be most advantageous for you to buy lots of unsexed slings and raise them yourself to ensure males and females. I'll continue to discriminate because I have no interest in that.
I really want to add that everyone is entitled to run their business the way they see fit and I'm not trying to tell anyone how to do their jobs. Maybe someone would like to enter the trade with this marketing intention to better serve the more picky of us out there! Great thread though. Keep the debates coming!
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2007
- Messages
- 673
Its not worth dealers' time to sex every single T. Dealers have hundreds and hundreds of Ts. I couldn't imagine the headache of sexing (via molt) and cataloging all of them. Not to mention the occasional one that gets mistaken for a female and turns out to be a male. Whoops! There goes all your profit for your effort.
Why not just buy a bunch of slings for the same price as a female? The probability of you getting a female is pretty good and you can sell the rest to buy more T's.
Then why don't you buy from someone else who has sexed females??? You don't HAVE to buy from Ken or another dealer.
You don't understand. There are no males so therefore there are no lots (of pure smithi) to buy.
There are plenty of people out there selling sexed females. You just have to keep your eye open.
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2004
- Messages
- 557
My friend a cave spider with a defect (missing legs or pedipalp) does not means is injured and not healthy. Most caves spiders will live a normal life without a leg or a pedipalp and in my experience it does not affects the mating.Ken, If you recall, I was one of the people who asked for a sexed invert. Specifically D. Diadema. I figured that because they were very easy to sex, simply by eyeballing, it wouldn't have been that large a request. I'm not that experienced in ordering from dealers, which is why, in my naivety, I asked if you could get me a female. However If I remember correctly, you would not sell me a female, unless it had a "Defect" a broken leg or antennae, simply because that meant you had to wait for it to molt out to sell it to someone else. I asked if I could get a discount because it was injured and you said you were going to ask the same price as a normal one, because you were sexing it out. So I understand that you want to maintain that random roll of the dice sort of deal, but apparently, I completely blew my chances of obtaining a a healthy female from you, purely because I asked for one and someone else, who may not have asked, or even cared is going to get it. A normal female, for the same price as I am paying for an injured one. I decided, after some thought, that it didn't sound quite right and I didn't want to mate an injured female anyways.
regards
francisco
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2004
- Messages
- 1,723
You've over simplified the 3 camps.. I'd say it's more like a spectrum:
People who buy 10 to get a female by odds and are HAPPY to have the males to trade/breed -------> people who only want a few/female T's so they are sure.
For me it depends on the species:
- G. pulchra, I bought/have one. not sure of it's sex yet. but with such a slow grower I'll be ok if it's male...
- P. chordatus I bought 10 slings had two already, one is a mature female ready to breed
- B. albopilosum, I have a few. One is male.(juvi) Would not want to breed.
will likely sell or trade him.
- M. balfouri - I'd buy 10 if I could afford it ... but wow. So I'll buy one. trade for one ( anyone want a used kidney?)
HERE's were it gets interesting:
If it's female WOOT !! I will have this T for a few years.( not sure of the max for lifespan of baboons) and maybe look for a male. But I'm not yet an established breeder, and anyone with a MM M. balfouri will likely not send him to me.
but IF it's MALE WOOT !! I can sell him, do a 50/50 for possibly more slings down the road.
I agree with Ken's logic 100%.
I however will not buy a 2-3" T from someone as unsexed.
I will not/would not sell a 2-3" T as unsexed. But I collect exuviums, catalog them and know the sex of everyone of my T's over 2" that has molted in my care. (** and I was able to retrieve the exuvium)
IMO
KEN should continue to sell his slings as unsexed.
He should advertise the fact that you will truly have a fair chance at getting a female.
here's why:
I received 5 Ceratogyrus a while back. ALL were male. all hooked out within 2 months. Do I think I was ripped off? no. DO I think the seller did some unintentional selection process? yes. I think they collected/shipped based on size, therefore possibly skewing the odds to one side.
When I sold my slings hatched by me, they were slings kept in separate vials, when I'd fill orders I'd reach in and grab vials randomly. these were much too young to sex ( 2nd instar - 3rd)
For those who spoke up and stated they'd pay extra for a sexed female, that's only appropriate.
For those who think that selling sexed will "ruin the captive population" I'm confused. The breeders will have males. Others will have males. we aren't culling one sex ( ala an aforementioned Asian country )
SHOP around. talk to the sellers.
Ken bringing this into the light was likely educational to many who may not of thought about it from that perspective.
** jumps off soapbox.. and kicks it over.. all punk rock style
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2009
- Messages
- 941
I am not saying the males will be culled but because almost everybody (except a few people with females to breed and no males ) want females exclusively,if all slings were sexed......what would the breeder do with all the males left over that not many people wanted......keep them ?
If we are realistic about this,unless somebody needs a male to breed,nobody is going to get a male just to keep it.A female will live a lot longer and normally get a lot bigger and a lot more colourful.
Just a thought.
If we are realistic about this,unless somebody needs a male to breed,nobody is going to get a male just to keep it.A female will live a lot longer and normally get a lot bigger and a lot more colourful.
Just a thought.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2009
- Messages
- 449
-- I'm always on the lookout for the t's I want. There have been times though when I looked and looked and couldn't at that moment find exactly what I was looking for and checked the big guys just to make sure I was checking everywhere. They tend to have a bunch of t's so who's to say that they don't have what I want?
Hope I'm not coming off as a jerk here. Just trying to make my position understood because I'm sure that I'm not the only one like this.
Also I'm a huge fan of your picture thread, haha.
-ben