I talked to a breeder online who sold hybrid jumping spiders. Why should she do this?!

[remarah1337]

Before we start, I WILL NOT BUY FROM THIS PERSON, EVER! I do not want hybrids and I refuse to buy them!

This is a hot button issue and if a mod wants to delete this thread I would understand since there are plenty of threads about this anyway.

I met this person on reddit and we were just DMing about jumping spider stuff. She mentioned she was a breeder so I was asking about various species. Fun times at first. She was very passionate and thought maybe she would be a decent pick.

I also mentioned another breeder of phids that hybridized Phiddipus regius and Phiddipus otiosus and I asked her what she thought of that and I scolded the other breeder.

She said that other breeder that hybridizes is a “very good breeder” and “respects” her. Oh my god. Why?! She took it upon herself without me asking to “educate” me about hybrids, justifying it because that it happened in nature, linking me some article. The article was literally about some scientists who crossed Phiddipus regius and Phiddipus otiosus in a laboratory setting. That is not in the wild. What the hell?
She also complained that she can’t seem to find pure Phiddipus otiosus because of excessive hybridization

I didn’t debate with her. It wasn’t worth my energy to debate to someone who is that delusional.

The reason I post this is to always do research before purchasing from a breeder.

 

[Wolf135]

I don't see the problem, humans have made some interesting animals through hybridization.

 

[darkness975]

Before we start, I WILL NOT BUY FROM THIS PERSON, EVER! I do not want hybrids and I refuse to buy them!

This is a hot button issue and if a mod wants to delete this thread I would understand since there are plenty of threads about this anyway.

I met this person on reddit and we were just DMing about jumping spider stuff. She mentioned she was a breeder so I was asking about various species. Fun times at first. She was very passionate and thought maybe she would be a decent pick.

I also mentioned another breeder of phids that hybridized Phiddipus regius and Phiddipus otiosus and I asked her what she thought of that and I scolded the other breeder.

She said that other breeder that hybridizes is a “very good breeder” and “respects” her. Oh my god. Why?! She took it upon herself without me asking to “educate” me about hybrids, justifying it because that it happened in nature, linking me some article. The article was literally about some scientists who crossed Phiddipus regius and Phiddipus otiosus in a laboratory setting. That is not in the wild. What the hell?
She also complained that she can’t seem to find pure Phiddipus otiosus because of excessive hybridization

I didn’t debate with her. It wasn’t worth my energy to debate to someone who is that delusional.

The reason I post this is to always do research before purchasing from a breeder.

You already pretty much know the answer to that. It's pure selfishness and greed with zero regard for nature or the survival of legitimate species.

 

[kingshockey]

the issue is when they knowingly sell cross bred spiders as pure then that customer unknowingly breeds that spider to another further mixing things up. or you can look at it like this kinda you would be pissed if you went to a bar paid for a shot of vodka just to find out later the bartender sold you a shot that was half water instead of pure vodka

 

[HooahArmy]

I don't see the problem, humans have made some interesting animals through hybridization.

I agree with this. Natural hybrids can occur usually only when animals are of the same species or of very similar species. My wolf-shepherd homegirl is half and half with Alaskan Makenzie wolf and German Shepherd. She is indeed quite lovely! Other notably lovely hybrids are of a male horse and a female donkey resulting in a hinny, or a female horse and a male donkey, creating the well-known mule.

The jumping spider hybrid, however, could sound a bit specious. They better dang back up their claims with cold hard science before selling.

 

[egyptiancrow]

some hybrids can occur in nature, but i want to make it clear:

this ends with a lot of sterile and infertile babies, and only due to random odds do some of them thrive and do well.

in general, hybridization is frowned upon for good reason. that said, some hybrids were popularized in the hobby and as long as people are breeding hybrid to hybrid and not killing off species, i dont see a problem with having them. But i personally will never partake myself and i also have no interest in buying them.

It can definitely get out of hand and the number of mislabeled hybrids is ridiculous.

 

[Dry Desert]

I agree with this. Natural hybrids can occur usually only when animals are of the same species or of very similar species. My wolf-shepherd homegirl is half and half with Alaskan Makenzie wolf and German Shepherd. She is indeed quite lovely! Other notably lovely hybrids are of a male horse and a female donkey resulting in a hinny, or a female horse and a male donkey, creating the well-known mule.

The jumping spider hybrid, however, could sound a bit specious. They better dang back up their claims with cold hard science before selling.

You agree do you.

Take a long hard look at the state the Royal/ Ball python trade is in.

It's so bad that reptile shows in the UK even ban certain morphs from being allowed for sale.

Also the idiotic names given to cross breed dogs ( which is done purely for greed and profit with no respect for the pure blood line ) would be enough to prevent me buying any.

" Cock a doodle " I ask you !!!

 

[LadyShia77]

You agree do you.

Take a long hard look at the state the Royal/ Ball python trade is in.

It's so bad that reptile shows in the UK even ban certain morphs from being allowed for sale.

Also the idiotic names given to cross breed dogs ( which is done purely for greed and profit with no respect for the pure blood line ) would be enough to prevent me buying any.

" Cock a doodle " I ask you !!!

To be fair, a good many the modern day breeds of dogs we have today are the result of selective breeding along with some cross breeding (i.e Doberman Pinscher). Some probably having some less than ideal names along the way. I do admit there are some breeds that should never be cross bred as their body types and what they were originally bred far are too different (i.e breeding a Pomeranian to a Siberian Husky to create a Pomsky). I would say as long as the spood breeder has done their homework in making sure crossing the two species is safe, the spoods they sell are healthy and honestly labels their hybrids as hybrids, and that they are making sure no pure species is being erradicated, then that may not be so bad. The Dark Den on YouTube posted a video about the issues hybridization was having on a particular species of tarantula. I'm personally not a big fan of the hybridization of spiders, but it's not necessarily a bad thing if done in a very controlled manner. There are different opinions on it so we'll have to agree to disagree on the matter.

 

[ThatsUnpossible]

She also complained that she can’t seem to find pure Phiddipus otiosus because of excessive hybridization.

Well duh! How can she say that and still not see the problem with breeding hybrids?? Either delusional or blinded by dollar signs. Sad.

 

[CRX]

This kind of hybridization can wreak havoc on the natural world. Heres an example- many many years ago when I started keeping animals that ate crickets, I felt bad over killing the excess ones and frequently just dumped them in my backyard. Back then we had the big black field crickets, very common at that time. As the years went by I started to notice less black crickets, and more what looked like hybrid ones between the bought (house) crickets, and the field crickets. Now in 2022, the black field crickets have been completely extirpated from my neighborhood, the hybrids have completely taken over, and I believe me releasing all those crickets over the years is a factor in this.

 

[remarah1337]

To be fair, a good many the modern day breeds of dogs we have today are the result of selective breeding along with some cross breeding (i.e Doberman Pinscher). Some probably having some less than ideal names along the way. I do admit there are some breeds that should never be cross bred as their body types and what they were originally bred far are too different (i.e breeding a Pomeranian to a Siberian Husky to create a Pomsky). I would say as long as the spood breeder has done their homework in making sure crossing the two species is safe, the spoods they sell are healthy and honestly labels their hybrids as hybrids, and that they are making sure no pure species is being erradicated, then that may not be so bad. The Dark Den on YouTube posted a video about the issues hybridization was having on a particular species of tarantula. I'm personally not a big fan of the hybridization of spiders, but it's not necessarily a bad thing if done in a very controlled manner. There are different opinions on it so we'll have to agree to disagree on the matter.

All dog breeds are actually the same species, Canis familiaris.

https://www.livescience.com/53841-how-know-dogs-are-same-species.html

 

[LadyShia77]

All dog breeds are actually the same species, Canis familiaris.

https://www.livescience.com/53841-how-know-dogs-are-same-species.html

Good point. Was just responding to Dry Desert's comment about the ridiculous names for cross breed dogs. I know they're the same species lol. Just didn't think to mention it.

 

[Dry Desert]

All dog breeds are actually the same species, Canis familiaris.

https://www.livescience.com/53841-how-know-dogs-are-same-species.html

All Royal pythons are the same species, most with neuralogica and other incurable cross bred problems.

So what is your point ?

 

[Jonathan6303]

the only way I would except this idea is if the the buying customer signed a contract stating that they cannot breed, sell/trade, or release this spider u see any condition. Also the breeder would have to also sign a contract stating that they cannot buy/trade any already hybridized species and all breeding would have to be reported to a database to be reviewed. That’s way to much paperwork so just don’t hybrid spiders

 

[loxoscelesfear]

Aren't hybrids infertile? For the most part, the reproductive organs of each species are uniquely shaped to sync w/ its own kind.

 

[egyptiancrow]

heres a pretty informative post, though you have to join the group to read it, on telling the difference between hybrids and otiosus.

there were tons of people selling hybrids as pure otiosus the past year, it was a huge problem

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[LinotheleLover]

So what exactly is the problem with hybridization if its done with animals that will never leave captivity and if they are clearly labeled as hybrids?

 

[remarah1337]

So what exactly is the problem with hybridization if its done with animals that will never leave captivity and if they are clearly labeled as hybrids?

Cross breeding jumping spiders?

I saw a website listing P. Regius and P. Otiosus hybrids. I was wondering if this is a normal thing and what the success rate for something like this would be?

arachnoboards.com

If you scroll down a staff member named Ungoliant talks about how hybrids are bad for the hobby. I would go into it myself however I am feeling rather sick today.

 

[kadupul]

I believe that breeding hybrids is fine as long as it does not affect the health of the animal and are clearly marked as hybrids. It's when the original species' numbers start to dwindle and they lose their presence in the hobby or what make the animal unique is watered down that I take issue with hybridizing.

On the other hand, sometimes with plants you can get the best of both species when hybridizing. For example, Nepenthes ventricosa and N. alata have crossed to produce N. ventrata. One parent is native to highlands and the other to lowlands, these biomes have very different temperatures and the offspring is able to tolerate a wider range of temperature because of it's parents. I could see the same sort of thing happening to hybridized arthropods and maybe that would be good thing for people who are just getting into the hobby.

 

[LinotheleLover]

Cross breeding jumping spiders?

I saw a website listing P. Regius and P. Otiosus hybrids. I was wondering if this is a normal thing and what the success rate for something like this would be?

arachnoboards.com

If you scroll down a staff member named Ungoliant talks about how hybrids are bad for the hobby. I would go into it myself however I am feeling rather sick today.

Seems to me that this issue with hybrids is dishonesty of breeders, not because of hybridization.