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Cross breeding jumping spiders?

Discussion in 'Other Spiders & Arachnids' started by Camry, Oct 13, 2019.

  1. Camry

    Camry Arachnopeon

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    I saw a website listing P. Regius and P. Otiosus hybrids. I was wondering if this is a normal thing and what the success rate for something like this would be?
     
  2. Ungoliant

    Ungoliant Malleus Aranearum Staff Member

    I don't know how common it is, but in this community, it is generally frowned upon to deliberately create hybrids.
     
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  3. Faeriedragon

    Faeriedragon Arachnopeon

    UK
    It’s because they cross breed in the wild as well if they come into contact which isn’t often as Otiosus usually live in trees. Regius will also cross breed with Audax apparently. These are the only ones that hybrid though, I’m not the biggest fan of it but as it can happen in the wild that’s why people see it as fine.

    Also bear in mind that P. Regius are different colours depending on the local and it’s possible that could be due to hybridisation with Audax and Otiosus in certain areas.
     
  4. Camry

    Camry Arachnopeon


    Why is it frowned upon?
     
  5. Ungoliant

    Ungoliant Malleus Aranearum Staff Member

    The most common objections to hybrids fall under two categories: the practical (contaminating the gene pool) and the philosophical (concerns about playing god or aesthetic judgments).

    The practical:
    • Hybrids contaminate the gene pools, because hybrid offspring are often sold as pure-bred members of one parent's species. (Even if they are initially labeled as hybrids, there is no guarantee that all subsequent owners will do the same, that the hybrids won't also be bred, or that any second-generation hybrids will all be labeled correctly.)
    • Hybrids are not always sterile.
    • Hybrids are not always easy to distinguish from pure-bred parent species (we have dozens of threads where users can't tell if their tarantulas are hybrids), increasing the likelihood that they will be bred.
    • Hybridization has been cited as the primary reason that hobby tarantulas are unsuitable for conservation purposes. (Conservationists don't want to use hybrids as breeding stock or release hybrids into the wild.)
    • This hobby relies on captive breeding. Once we have polluted hobby stock with hybrids, there is no going back. (Collecting spiders from the wild, particularly species that may be threatened, may he unsustainable -- and even illegal.)
    • Spiders can create a lot of offspring. You're not talking about one or two hybrids but possibly hundreds or even thousands (depending on the species).
    • Long-lived spiders like tarantulas are likely to have multiple owners in their lifetimes, increasing the likelihood that a hybrid might end up with someone who doesn't know or care not to breed it.
    • It is common practice to sell or trade mature males for breeding purposes.
    • Hybrids are less desirable than pure-bred species. There is a high likelihood you will end up with a bunch of spiders no one wants. (This is one of the reasons they often end up being sold as pure-bred; few people want them otherwise.)

    The philosophical:
    • We shouldn't play god or mess with nature. While hybridization sometimes occurs naturally in the wild without any human influence (e.g., species introduction or habitat destruction), it is less common among native species in wilderness environments than defenders of hybridization often claim. (Nature has created many mechanisms to prevent hybridization in the wild.)
    • Hybrids are often less attractive than pure-bred members of either species.

    If you search previous threads, you can find many discussions on this topic; it's a hot-button issue:
     
    • Informative Informative x 5
  6. Faeriedragon

    Faeriedragon Arachnopeon

    UK
    Wow I didn’t realise people ask about hybrids that much? It seems kinda crazy. Personally I just see it as pointless with spiders (and I am someone that owns hybrid mammals) there is no goal to the breeding of 2 different species so why do it?

    I suppose the easy answer is money and people don’t have to look for 2 of the same species especially if females of a certain species are very expensive, plus they can just sell on the babies for a profit especially as with spiders you don’t really get an idea of adult colouring as slings and they could be easily passed off as the more expensive species.

    To me I just see it as it’s not beneficial for the animals, the hobby or conservation so why do it?

    The other thing is jumping spiders can have multiple clutches and lay 100’s of eggs at a time (I know of one female that laid 4 eggsacks off one mating) she’s had close to 1000 babies now I think from that one mating (Regal jumper) and could you honestly find homes for them all? As you can’t just release them into the wild considering they are hybrids and what that would do to the wild population. If hybridization happens in the wild its very rare with jumpers and most slings in the wild won’t survive so the impact is low, with captive bred the mortality rate is a lot lower so more will survive to reproduce. It’s about being responsible.

    The only acceptable ones to me would be colour morphs of the same species.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  7. Ungoliant

    Ungoliant Malleus Aranearum Staff Member

    It's a surprisingly common question. I only linked about a third of the threads I saw in the search results. (I didn't include threads that were just asking if a particular spider looked like a hybrid, threads that were killed by moderators before a debate could take off, or threads that just ended in instructions for using the search function.)

    There are probably many other threads that did not include the word "hybrid" or "cross" in the title. (For my own sanity, I limited my results to threads with either those words in the title.)
     
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  8. PtwnHustle

    PtwnHustle Arachnopeon

    USA
    Audax and regius can't hybridize.


     
  9. Faeriedragon

    Faeriedragon Arachnopeon

    UK
    I’ve heard some say they can thats why I said apparently they can although it’s possible people misidentified a Regius male as an Audax, personally I’ve only seen Otiosus/Regius offspring.
     
  10. PtwnHustle

    PtwnHustle Arachnopeon

    USA
    It must be the confusion between audax and regius males. I've only ever heard of otiosus/regius hybrids also.

    I’ve heard some say they can thats why I said apparently they can although it’s possible people misidentified a Regius male as an Audax, personally I’ve only seen Otiosus/Regius offspring.[/QUOTE]
     
  11. LunarValkyrie

    LunarValkyrie Arachnopeon

    P audax and P Clarus have been crossbred successfully but most males are sterile. Females however have been bred back to either species and also been successful. They as said above cross territories in the wild. Some folks frown on hybrids and some don't. The biggest thing to keep in mind if you do have them or breed them, plz be up front to anyone you give or sell these to so they know what they are getting.
     
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