I need a bit of help

[Venom1080]

Avicularia braunshauseni anyone???

 

[viper69]

@Jeff23

You make a lot of valid points (I forgot to quote you sorry), particularly about trust. I think almost all points revolved around that in some level. While I had no doubts about you personally, it's good of you to recognize trust in a breeder. There are TONS of people who don't take that into consideration. It's an 8 legged pet they want, and one person is as good as the next.

When I FIRST thought about getting more involved in the exotic hobby than just going to the LPS, mind you this time pre-dates the internet and many, many of the hobby shows many take for granted (back then there were only local clubs IF that even existed in one's locale), the only advice was from a books and the few interested people that were older than me that I came into contact with. I was fortunate I met some really nice, serious herp enthusiasts at different points. The first piece of advice they all gave me, including books, when buying an animal: know the breeder.

I have followed that piece of advice for every single exotic purchase I have made. Even when I first started out in Ts (long after herps mind you) the first words out of my mouth to Kelly Swift when we met monthly at a show was "Did you breed these?. The first Ts I bought from him were ones he bred. I didn't initially buy anything he didn't breed actually. I find security in knowing the person bred them. Even today, if you ask Kelly, he'll tell you I still ask those same words. If I hear "no", my next question is "who did you get them from/who bred them".

Over time I realized if the animals came from a reputable person they all didn't have to be bred by that person to be a quality animal.

In one case I was looking for a particular ball python morph that had finally come down in price. We knew about it in 1994, but it hadn't been proven genetically yet. When it was proven, of course it was a 5 figure snake, too much for my blood hah.

Anyway, I saw a guy advertising on Kingsnake.com the type of morph I was looking for, and the specific type of look this morph can produce, as the pattern produced is HIGHLY variable and random. I called him up, I didn't know him, NEVER heard of him. But we spoke on the phone for probably 1.5 hr just about ball pythons, and how he got started. He was doing it on the side at the time. In short, I ended up buying from him because I trusted him, he took the time to listen to what I wanted, and sent me as many pictures as I wanted in order to choose. With a pattern so variable, I required quite a few photos, I'm picky. I was one of his first customers back then, now he's one of the most well known ball python breeders out there, specifically high end morphs only. If my snake was a stock, I'd be RICH hahah. Actually mine would be an excellent one to breed because 50% of his genes are from Africa, he had a WC parent, no inbreeding with him.

So my example above illustrates how strongly I believe in the aspects of trust you astutely mentioned. I like talking to you Jeff. You ask good questions and at times you force me to think more critically about what I say. It's easy to think other people understand you when all you have going on in your own head is your own voice

 

[viper69]

Avicularia braunshauseni anyone???

Large, a bit skittish, but gentle giants. They were the largest Avic slings I have ever seen. I miss mine quite a bit.

 

[klawfran3]

Oh nice combination of degrees. A PhD in Ento.... going to end up working for the pesticide production companies or the government or academic research?

I hear it's gorgeous over there, take advantage of the nature there!

I don't know if Cal would allow leaf-cutters in. I know museums have colonies, but private use, not so sure...

I did know what they did w/aphids, but I didn't know they were the only animals to farm other animals, besides us!

I think ants are fascinating. I met E.O. Wilson once, the guy's a genius.

I'll tell you a cool fact he told me. I asked him once what was the strangest place he ever found a new species of ant. I really expected some odd jungle or harsh environment. NOPE. He told me "inside the pot of a plant in an office in Washington DC" !!!

Haha I actually want to go into taxonomy and field work, I'd love to be able to name some species. I'm thinking of focusing on possibly Strepsipterans or Ichneumonids, and finding what hosts some species are specific to since that's not very well studied.

Oh yeah it is absolutely beautiful here. I hike all the time and go insect collecting constantly. If you have insta you can follow me @ichneumonidae to see some of the rad places I've been.

California actually has a species of leafcutter down by Joshua Tree, Acromyrmex versicolor. On one of the ant forums I belong to (formiculture) the owner Drew figured out how to keep them in captivity. Great guy, I've bought a Solenopsis colony from him before. I highly recommend his forum if you're into ants, tons of great info there. It's like Arachnoboards for ants haha.

That's a pretty crazy place to discover a new species, jeez! My guess is it was probably a Pheidole species since they're so common and often found transported in plants.

 

[Venom1080]

Large, a bit skittish, but gentle giants. They were the largest Avic slings I have ever seen. I miss mine quite a bit.

i meant for the id the OP wanted. i thought A avic didnt have the red setae on the back pair of legs?

 

[viper69]

Haha I actually want to go into taxonomy and field work, I'd love to be able to name some species. I'm thinking of focusing on possibly Strepsipterans or Ichneumonids, and finding what hosts some species are specific to since that's not very well studied.

Oh yeah it is absolutely beautiful here. I hike all the time and go insect collecting constantly. If you have insta you can follow me @ichneumonidae to see some of the rad places I've been.

California actually has a species of leafcutter down by Joshua Tree, Acromyrmex versicolor. On one of the ant forums I belong to (formiculture) the owner Drew figured out how to keep them in captivity. Great guy, I've bought a Solenopsis colony from him before. I highly recommend his forum if you're into ants, tons of great info there. It's like Arachnoboards for ants haha.

That's a pretty crazy place to discover a new species, jeez! My guess is it was probably a Pheidole species since they're so common and often found transported in plants.

That's really cool! Thanks for the insta. I will def. check it out. I had no idea there was an ant forum, nor did I know Cali had a leaf-cutter!!! I only knew TX did, this cooler than I tought. When I visit friends I always hit Joshua Tree, I wonder if someone knows where I could observe some, that would be way cool. I was at a museum w/some leaf-cutters and it's amazing to watch them.

Now if only there was a way to own Army ants !

 

[viper69]

i meant for the id the OP wanted. i thought A avic didnt have the red setae on the back pair of legs?

Oh haha...It's funny you mention A. brau. as I was thinking the same thing at one point, but there were some other factors that didn't fit. Primarily A. brau's have red on the back four legs, it's pretty distinctive.

Mind you I only have few pics in the OPs post, and only a few species can one really ID via a pic for Avics. With my A. brau.'s they do have the red setae dorsolaterally on the abdomen, and it's very obvious on the back legs of course. The red is really a deep brick red to me. I wish I had pic of mine, I'd throw it up for you. His pics didn't fit too well w/my A. brau's.

In it's place, I'll use CEC's pic. Mine looked exactly like his.

http://arachnoboards.com/gallery/avicularia-braunshauseni.37036/

 

[klawfran3]

That's really cool! Thanks for the insta. I will def. check it out. I had no idea there was an ant forum, nor did I know Cali had a leaf-cutter!!! I only knew TX did, this cooler than I tought. When I visit friends I always hit Joshua Tree, I wonder if someone knows where I could observe some, that would be way cool. I was at a museum w/some leaf-cutters and it's amazing to watch them.

Now if only there was a way to own Army ants !

There are a whole lot of collecting reports about different species of ants on the forum, I believe the leafcutter ants fly in August.

I saw a museum like that too, was it the one in France? Can't remember the name but they had a huge exhibit only on ants with a live leafcutter colony and a bullet ant colony. It was friggin sweet.


People have tried keeping army ants in captivity but they always end up dying. They leave pheromone trails to prevent foraging in the same place twice since they don't want to over harvest the local meat supply, and at a certain point there are no more places to forage in captivity since it's a finite space and they slowly wither away balled up in their living bungalow. They'll absolutely refuse to forage in the same place twice, making it impossible to rear them.

__EDIT
Also to be fully honest I'm not too sure why people are still arguing about the species of the spiders in question. I very much trust the seller I bought them from and I can almost guarantee they are both Avicularia avicularia. I have bought from him multiple times before and although I cannot say whether he bred them himself or bought them from someone else I can say that I'm completely sure they are just run of the mill, plain Avic avics. I can upload old photos of them as slings and videos if needed but to be fully honest that seems pretty unnecessary. Even if I had bought them as unnamed spiders there is still an extremely large chance they would be Avic avic due to its commonness, low price, and their developmental coloration. They look like classic Avic avics, grew up like classic Avic avics, and were sold to me as classic Avic avics. Of course though, there are so many differences in cameras and lighting that you can never ID an Avic by its phenotype alone, there is too much variability even within the same SPECIES of spider. It's best to look at the genetalia, specifically the epigastric furrow and spermatheca on an ID thread but not many people are experts on IDing spiders based on their private parts and frankly it's completely unnecessary for the two spiders in this thread.
And yes, one dropped a sac for me after I mated it. I can upload photos of that event if you all would like too. The sac was fertile and the young that came from it look just like plain old, run of the mill, Avic Avics.

On a side note I am getting very tired of writing Avic Avics so much. I'll just abbreviate them as AA from now on.

 

[klawfran3]

The mother just before mating

During mating (she is on the right)

Happy mom with her new sac

I have no photos of the young but trust me, they are plain as day AAs.

As you can see though even though the pictures were taken relatively close to one another due to the different lightings she looks very different in each one. Notice how her setae in the first photo all look red while in the second photo they look white. IDing based on phenotype alone like everyone is doing is not a good idea for Avics.

and on a very side note the tarsal scopulae on her in the second photo are gorgeous. Makes me really miss them.

 

[viper69]

There are a whole lot of collecting reports about different species of ants on the forum, I believe the leafcutter ants fly in August.

I saw a museum like that too, was it the one in France? Can't remember the name but they had a huge exhibit only on ants with a live leafcutter colony and a bullet ant colony. It was friggin sweet.


People have tried keeping army ants in captivity but they always end up dying. They leave pheromone trails to prevent foraging in the same place twice since they don't want to over harvest the local meat supply, and at a certain point there are no more places to forage in captivity since it's a finite space and they slowly wither away balled up in their living bungalow. They'll absolutely refuse to forage in the same place twice, making it impossible to rear them.

__EDIT
Also to be fully honest I'm not too sure why people are still arguing about the species of the spiders in question. I very much trust the seller I bought them from and I can almost guarantee they are both Avicularia avicularia. I have bought from him multiple times before and although I cannot say whether he bred them himself or bought them from someone else I can say that I'm completely sure they are just run of the mill, plain Avic avics. I can upload old photos of them as slings and videos if needed but to be fully honest that seems pretty unnecessary. Even if I had bought them as unnamed spiders there is still an extremely large chance they would be Avic avic due to its commonness, low price, and their developmental coloration. They look like classic Avic avics, grew up like classic Avic avics, and were sold to me as classic Avic avics. Of course though, there are so many differences in cameras and lighting that you can never ID an Avic by its phenotype alone, there is too much variability even within the same SPECIES of spider. It's best to look at the genetalia, specifically the epigastric furrow and spermatheca on an ID thread but not many people are experts on IDing spiders based on their private parts and frankly it's completely unnecessary for the two spiders in this thread.
And yes, one dropped a sac for me after I mated it. I can upload photos of that event if you all would like too. The sac was fertile and the young that came from it look just like plain old, run of the mill, Avic Avics.

On a side note I am getting very tired of writing Avic Avics so much. I'll just abbreviate them as AA from now on.

This museum was in America actually. A bullet ant colony, now that's wild. Ive watched nature shows on them, and they are vicious ants, that pack quite the punch as you know. They will actually chase you down for some distance, surprising but true according to this documentary I watched.

Oh wow, I didn't know that army ants. I knew ants communicate by chemoception sure, but had no idea it played a role in army ants determining where they will and will not hunt from next. That makes total sense. They are a fierce species, leaving nothing behind in its path. The shows I have watched on them are fascinating.

I have no doubts on the AAs you gave to Wil. Agreed on all that you wrote, esp on IDing, and no need to upload more images. The natural iridescence and camera/lighting make Ts a very difficult species to ID by picture, and as you know, esp for Avics. I think the member species of that genus is more similar looking than many other members of other genera.

At least with ants you don't have the iridescence issue from what I know.

 

[klawfran3]

This museum was in America actually. A bullet ant colony, now that's wild. Ive watched nature shows on them, and they are vicious ants, that pack quite the punch as you know. They will actually chase you down for some distance, surprising but true according to this documentary I watched.

Oh wow, I didn't know that army ants. I knew ants communicate by chemoception sure, but had no idea it played a role in army ants determining where they will and will not hunt from next. That makes total sense. They are a fierce species, leaving nothing behind in its path. The shows I have watched on them are fascinating.

I have no doubts on the AAs you gave to Wil. Agreed on all that you wrote, esp on IDing, and no need to upload more images. The natural iridescence and camera/lighting make Ts a very difficult species to ID by picture, and as you know, esp for Avics. I think the member species of that genus is more similar looking than many other members of other genera.

At least with ants you don't have the iridescence issue from what I know.

Yeah with ants it's mostly based on look, proportions, and a few other minor differences you can easily see in a microscope. Much easier than our fuzzy eight legged friends.

Avicularia has always been a PITA to ID, the species all look relatively the same and I can guarantee you some of the described species are probably invalid. If I remember properly a few years ago I heard Robert Raven was doing a revamp on the Avicularia genus and fixing some of the confusion, but I haven't heard anything of it since.
Stuff is like is why I'm going to focus on Taxonomy, make it easier for people to work with them and figure out what the heck is going on.