Habitat advice.

[MarkJ]

I am about to get back into the hobby and am looking for some habitat/species advice.

Quick backstory, many years ago I had a Mexican Red Leg but that was my only one and I've always wanted to get another. Since that day I've had snakes, scorpions, fresh water tanks, reef tanks and we rehab small mammals for one of the local Vet offices.

Now I had a custom freshwater tank I built and are in the process of moving them all to a new 75 gallon. I am going to repurpose this tank into the new spider habitat. It's pretty long at 75" and is 12" wide by 12" high. I would like to create a natural habitat with living plants for whatever species I decide to get. It also seems pretty clear that this tank is far too long for just one spider so I'll probably install some baffles and have 2 possibly 3 living in this environment. All of them will need to thrive in the same type of environment so Im not settled on which species would be best for this.

So here's my questions for the experts here, I hope I can get some advice that will help me create the perfect habitat.

What type of environment would be best suited? Arid as in desert-like or more humid with a rainforest feel? Any suggestions on resources for building a 'living' tank as opposed to one with just substrate and rocks?
As for species, I am a novice with spiders but not with venomous reptiles, I have no desire to hold and/or handle a spider so picking a more aggressive species is not a concern. If you had your choice of two spiders to put in a a 'living' type of tank which two would you choose?

I am sure as the build progresses I'll post updates and have more questions so thanks in advance for any insight that is provided.

I'll include the picture of the tank, although the current inhabitants haven't been evicted yet, that happens this weekend!

 

[cold blood]

I'll probably install some baffles and have 2 possibly 3 living in this environment. All of them will need to thrive in the same type of environment so Im not settled on which species would be best for this.

there is no situation where divided enclosures should be used for tarantulas....just a bad idea altogether.

 

[MarkJ]

How would you suggest I fully utilize a tank that long?

 

[cold blood]

How would you suggest I fully utilize a tank that long?

one tank, one spider

 

[Neonblizzard]

Honestly... A tank as beautiful as that, I would put more fish in there.

Even divided into 3 it would be too big for possibly even the largest tarantulas. As cold blood mentioned, dividing a tank up is only asking for trouble. Too much risk of one getting out and immediately escaping into the next enclosure... You'd have to divide the lid up somehow unless you wanted to pop the lid on three/four/five/6 tarantulas at once - you definitely don't want to do that with a party of cranky old world species.

Also, unless you're buying fully grown Ts, you're going to have a lot of trouble adjusting the enclosure as they grow, it's going to start too big for a juvenile, then you're going to have to move baffles. I really can't grasp how the logistics and problems would be vaguely worth the efforts.

You can make a lovely habitat and we'd love to see them and offer advice, i really, really wouldn't recommend undergoing a tarantula project with this tank though. You could put all that effort into smaller tanks with separate enclosures and they will turn out great.

 

[Dorifto]

It's going to be way harder than it looks, because you need to measure all the gaps to the milimeter, if not... I need to explain it? You will have the disadvantage that if something goes wrong all the spiders would be exposed. All the spiders must have the same requeriments, and keep in mind that the center ones would be hotter than the corners. You will need to cut some ventilation holes in front or in the back, increasing the risk of cracking. It should be top opening design, the dividers should be thick enough to suport the doors, the maintenande a pita and a big etc etc etc

So yes it's better to have one enclosure for each T. If something goes wrong, you can fix it taking that enclosure without exposing any other Ts. I had the same idea and discarted it.

 

[MarkJ]

Honestly... A tank as beautiful as that, I would put more fish in there.

Even divided into 3 it would be too big for possibly even the largest tarantulas. As cold blood mentioned, dividing a tank up is only asking for trouble. Too much risk of one getting out and immediately escaping into the next enclosure... You'd have to divide the lid up somehow unless you wanted to pop the lid on three/four/five/6 tarantulas at once - you definitely don't want to do that with a party of cranky old world species.

Also, unless you're buying fully grown Ts, you're going to have a lot of trouble adjusting the enclosure as they grow, it's going to start too big for a juvenile, then you're going to have to move baffles. I really can't grasp how the logistics and problems would be vaguely worth the efforts.

You can make a lovely habitat and we'd love to see them and offer advice, i really, really wouldn't recommend undergoing a tarantula project with this tank though. You could put all that effort into smaller tanks with separate enclosures and they will turn out great.

Thank you very much for your suggestions, much appreciated!

The fish in that tank are already going into the 75 gallon that I set up so this tank will be empty, in fact I already moved a lot of the plants over I'm just waiting for appropriate filter time to move the fish, shrimp and crabs.

With this tank I had two choices, I could repurpose it for something else or toss it. It's custom built for that opening so it really wouldn't work anywhere else. I really wanted to get the tarantulas again but this is the only location I could use for them. When I mentioned baffles I meant permanent walls just like the rest of the tank walls. Your point about opening the lid is a good one but the top is 3/8" Lexan on aluminum rails so it would not be difficult to cut and match the lid to any walls I put up inside. I guess I could just split it up into 3 parts two short 'tanks' one on each end and then just fill the larger middle section with live vegetation. Then the Tarantulas (just 2 of them one on each end) would have a big buffer between them, but they would both be in a smaller area with it's own independent lid.

@Dorifto
I appreciate your input! Having the lid and tank fit perfectly I can handle, this is the 18th glass aquarium I've built over the last 11 years and they are all still in service. The inside walls will be made from the same glass as the exterior walls and will be watertight as well. Right now you couldn't slip a piece of paper between the lid and the tank walls. The weight of the Lexan, light and aluminum rails makes it impossible for a T to lift the lid for an escape attempt. Working with the tank modifications I can manage but I don't know some of the requirements for the spiders. I am confident I have the ability to build the perfect environment out of the tank in that opening, I just need some help defining what that perfect environment needs to look like.

Is 12" x 12" x 12" adequate space for an Old World T? Should it be more like 12" x 16" x 12"?
What species would do well for more of a rainforest environment?

I assume that once I figure out the best species match for the rainforest environment I would like to have that I would then be able to research the correct lighting, and habitat composition such as what types of living plants, substrate, soil/peat and whatever else should be included?

My bottom line goal is to have a living rainforest environment with a tarantula living at each end, I want it to be as close to replicating their natural environment as I can possibly make it.

I really appreciate everyone's insight and experience...

 

[Dorifto]

Thank you very much for your suggestions, much appreciated!

The fish in that tank are already going into the 75 gallon that I set up so this tank will be empty, in fact I already moved a lot of the plants over I'm just waiting for appropriate filter time to move the fish, shrimp and crabs.

With this tank I had two choices, I could repurpose it for something else or toss it. It's custom built for that opening so it really wouldn't work anywhere else. I really wanted to get the tarantulas again but this is the only location I could use for them. When I mentioned baffles I meant permanent walls just like the rest of the tank walls. Your point about opening the lid is a good one but the top is 3/8" Lexan on aluminum rails so it would not be difficult to cut and match the lid to any walls I put up inside. I guess I could just split it up into 3 parts two short 'tanks' one on each end and then just fill the larger middle section with live vegetation. Then the Tarantulas (just 2 of them one on each end) would have a big buffer between them, but they would both be in a smaller area with it's own independent lid.

@Dorifto
I appreciate your input! Having the lid and tank fit perfectly I can handle, this is the 18th glass aquarium I've built over the last 11 years and they are all still in service. The inside walls will be made from the same glass as the exterior walls and will be watertight as well. Right now you couldn't slip a piece of paper between the lid and the tank walls. The weight of the Lexan, light and aluminum rails makes it impossible for a T to lift the lid for an escape attempt. Working with the tank modifications I can manage but I don't know some of the requirements for the spiders. I am confident I have the ability to build the perfect environment out of the tank in that opening, I just need some help defining what that perfect environment needs to look like.

Is 12" x 12" x 12" adequate space for an Old World T? Should it be more like 12" x 16" x 12"?
What species would do well for more of a rainforest environment?

I assume that once I figure out the best species match for the rainforest environment I would like to have that I would then be able to research the correct lighting, and habitat composition such as what types of living plants, substrate, soil/peat and whatever else should be included?

My bottom line goal is to have a living rainforest environment with a tarantula living at each end, I want it to be as close to replicating their natural environment as I can possibly make it.

I really appreciate everyone's insight and experience...

Being a crafty guy I'd suggest you to make your own enclosures, even modifying that tank, it would not be suitable to make a living rainforest enclosure, since they need a pretty good ventilation system, maybe even a active system like mine. Also it's not very recommendable to start with planted vivs, I did it, but I was always checking every subtle change on the enclosure, and more significantly on the Ts. The best advice I could give you, is to read all about the Ts you want to keep, and I mean all. Kind of substrate, plants, moisture in the soil, seasons, climate in general...

This is the blueprint of one of my enclosures, I copied one to make the other making some minor changes. And some more to borrow some ideas.







They even have a misting system that won't disturb the Ts, but I mainly use them for holidays.

I greatly suggest you changing your setup, or you will have a very foggy enclosures. As you can see, mine have a low grille and a top one, so the air enters from the front low grilles and while it climbs, doesn't allow to the glass to fog up. In your actual setup, it coul be imposible to replicate that air convection, unless you cut a long transversal piece of glass and replace it with a drilled aluminium sheet.

 

[viper69]

I'll probably install some baffles and have 2 possibly 3 living in this environment.

Typically we don't see a lot of success with divided tanks because the human owners make a lot of mistakes, esp underestimated these types of animals. I'd say if you can keep octopi through complete life cycles WITHOUT AN ESCAPE, you could do a divided. If you haven't done that, then the odds are typically not in favor of human.

 

[Dorifto]

octopi

 

[viper69]

always wanted to get into salts and ultimately own one, their super intelligent, yet incredibly short lived unfortunately. What is so amazing is they are color-blind, despite their flawless camouflage.

 

[Dorifto]

always wanted to get into salts and ultimately own one, their super intelligent, yet incredibly short lived unfortunately. What is so amazing is they are color-blind, despite their flawless camouflage.

I always have regrets after eating them, because of their intelligence, but since child I'm adicted to them with green pepper, onion, vinegar and olive oil

How hard is to keep them? Not for eating purposes

 

[viper69]

I always have regrets after eating them, because of their intelligence, but since child I'm adicted to them with green pepper, onion, vinegar and olive oil

How hard is to keep them? Not for eating purposes

Never kept them, only spoke to peeps who have. First off, I heard they are kept solitary, otherwise they eat the fish. Also, you have to make the tank AIR TIGHT, They are THE true escape artists. They are only limited by the size of their beak in terms of what they can fit through. And for their size, they are strong.
With their intelligence there isn't too much they can't figure out or escape from with enough time if there's a way to do so. Owners have found their pets crawling outside their tanks often.

 

[MarkJ]

Being a crafty guy I'd suggest you to make your own enclosures, even modifying that tank, it would not be suitable to make a living rainforest enclosure, since they need a pretty good ventilation system, maybe even a active system like mine. Also it's not very recommendable to start with planted vivs, I did it, but I was always checking every subtle change on the enclosure, and more significantly on the Ts. The best advice I could give you, is to read all about the Ts you want to keep, and I mean all. Kind of substrate, plants, moisture in the soil, seasons, climate in general...

This is the blueprint of one of my enclosures, I copied one to make the other making some minor changes. And some more to borrow some ideas.

View attachment 398379
View attachment 398381
View attachment 398378
View attachment 398380


They even have a misting system that won't disturb the Ts, but I mainly use them for holidays.

I greatly suggest you changing your setup, or you will have a very foggy enclosures. As you can see, mine have a low grille and a top one, so the air enters from the front low grilles and while it climbs, doesn't allow to the glass to fog up. In your actual setup, it coul be imposible to replicate that air convection, unless you cut a long transversal piece of glass and replace it with a drilled aluminium sheet.

Wow, that is much more like what I had in mind! How many do you have in there? 2?

Would have never guessed on doing the ventilation the way you have it. I could pull the front piece of glass off my tank and cut it then build that vent system at the bottom, thats a nice way to do that. I do have a misting system like that for frogs I used to have, looks like that will come in handy again. I have a cloud based monitoring system for the humidity and temperature and even lighting so thats the easy part. How much air are you looking to change out? Like the volume of the tank every hour? or less?



@viper69
I never wanted to keep an octopus, they don't live well in captivity and their life span is short enough as it is. They are picky eaters and will kill just about anything else in the tank including corals. Clams and certain SPS are quite difficult to keep healthy but if done right are magnificent and can live 8-10 years or longer. Elegance coral is another one, most die the first month but if you can keep them alive past that they are beautiful. As for escape artists, I never lost any frogs and some of those guys are pretty sneaky!

Thanks again for all this info, this is pure gold!

 

[Dorifto]

Wow, that is much more like what I had in mind! How many do you have in there? 2?

Would have never guessed on doing the ventilation the way you have it. I could pull the front piece of glass off my tank and cut it then build that vent system at the bottom, thats a nice way to do that. I do have a misting system like that for frogs I used to have, looks like that will come in handy again. I have a cloud based monitoring system for the humidity and temperature and even lighting so thats the easy part. How much air are you looking to change out? Like the volume of the tank every hour? or less?

2 right now.

I didn't measured it tbh, I set the speed based on how fast takes the moisture. The volume of my tanks is 96 liters, and the fans are 80mm ones with 22cfm at 3000rpm, so theorically with any restrictions it will change the entire enclosure's volume in 3'5 minutes. But with the grille restriction and that the speed is way below from their maximun cfm values, it could be around 5 times enclosure volume each hour actively. But in my case the ambient humidity levels and enclosure levels are almost the same, so there is not too much draw of moisture, but if you are going to keep plants, it's going to be mandatory a good ventilation system.

If you are going to pull the front panel, I'd use sliding door design or magnetic hinge design, to block any gap from one part to the other, and I'd increase the height of the front support, to allow to have more substrate from the start.

I'd cover the top with glass and a aluminiun drilled grille like mine and use the dividers like support for it.

 

[MarkJ]

2 right now.

I didn't measured it tbh, I set the speed based on how fast takes the moisture. The volume of my tanks is 96 liters, and the fans are 80mm ones with 22cfm at 3000rpm, so theorically with any restrictions it will change the entire enclosure's volume in 3'5 minutes. But with the grille restriction and that the speed is way below from their maximun cfm values, it could be around 5 times enclosure volume each hour actively. But in my case the ambient humidity levels and enclosure levels are almost the same, so there is not too much draw of moisture, but if you are going to keep plants, it's going to be mandatory a good ventilation system.

If you are going to pull the front panel, I'd use sliding door design or magnetic hinge design, to block any gap from one part to the other, and I'd increase the height of the front support, to allow to have more substrate from the start.

I'd cover the top with glass and a aluminiun drilled grille like mine and use the dividers like support for it.

I follow you, the ventilation system would have been really tough to have to do after the fact but I have some ideas on how to get it working in this project. I'll work up the design over the next few days and post it here, see what you think. I think the builds are as much fun as the enjoyment of caring for the critters, I'm very much looking forward to all this.

Thanks again for the advice, it's been extremely valuable!

 

[Dorifto]

I follow you, the ventilation system would have been really tough to have to do after the fact but I have some ideas on how to get it working in this project. I'll work up the design over the next few days and post it here, see what you think. I think the builds are as much fun as the enjoyment of caring for the critters, I'm very much looking forward to all this.

Thanks again for the advice, it's been extremely valuable!

Pretty easy indeed, my top grille gap has 80mm so I can press 80mm fans on top. So if you leave 80mm or 100mm gap between the two top glass pieces you can directly press fit the fans.

Instead of using different power adapters I use a meanwell 12v power supply, so the fan controller and the lights are feeded from that supply, much more estable supply than the average crappy power adaptors.

For the misting I made my own system with tefen 80° 50 micron nozzles, the droplets are so thin than the vents extract all the remaining nebulization pretty fast. I use a coffee machine 15bar water pump. Much cheaper and better than those found on other branded misting system.

 

[MarkJ]

So far so good!

Tank was emptied everything cleaned up, I have a custom ventilation system I'm building into the biotank because I decided not to take off the front glass and cut it. It will ultimately give me better control over air flow and humidity and I can tie it into my cloud monitoring system and automate the whole process from air flow to humidity right from my desktop.

One thing I am seeing some conflicting opinions on is the use of mesh as opposed to drilled acrylic for ventilation. I was going to use this 304 Stainless Mesh but some handlers are suggesting that mesh like that could allow a leg to get snagged up and/or lead to the loss of a limb. I see @Dorifto has what appears to be stainless mesh so I wouldn't think it's an issue but I thought I would ask. Mesh or drilled acrylic? If you drill the acrylic what size hole is small enough to avoid injury to the legs?

 

[Wolfram1]

That's a pretty controversial topic and opinions vary quite a lot. Personally i do use stainless steel-gauze for my sling and juvenile enclosures up to 4-5" and it is much, much better than aluminium mesh because spiders can't chew through it or bend it, which prevents escapes or possibly harm themselves on the sharp ends of broken wires.

I use a much finer gauze though, so the fangs of larger spiders just slide off rather than penetrating it

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but i don't use it for my larger spiders and have no experience using it over the entirety of the lid or spiders climbing on it upside down as i don't use it like that.
still i would advocate a finer mesh if u do use one as it makes the material stronger despite a smaller diameter of the wires but with an active ventilation system i don't think you need to keep it open, just install a fan on ether end and make them cycle the air. @Dorifto seems to have it down

 

[Dorifto]

The problem with acrylic is that warps under moisture. I have no problems with the perforated aluminium/steel grille, but because I have a low grille too. The T only feels the air current from the bottom mount grille, as the top grille acts like an extractor. If you add only top mounted grille, they will feel the air currents from the top like an exit point, so they will try to reach it, creating dangerous situations. That's why I don't have any climbing issues etc.

The mesh you linked are the ones that we should avoid, as their tarsal claws get stuck pretty easily on them, so they could hang from one leg without the possibility to free themselves. That's why we suggest people to cover the mesh with acrylic sheets, to prevent those situations. This is my pulchra when I started in the hobby, and didn't know too much about how to house them...



New ones are perforated aluminium sheets, with 2mm holes.

So I highly suggest you to add a low ventilation. One, because it's going to increase the ventilation, and two to decrease any chances of dangerous situations.