Habitat advice.

MarkJ

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There are three sections to the tank separated by 9mm acrylic panels, each spider habitat will be about 50cm x 25cm x 25cm with a center 'buffer' of 90cm x 25cm x 25cm. I will definitely have a low vent line traversing the entire tank in addition to the vent in the lid. In that center buffer will be orchids, misting, etc so I can pull humidity from there rather than to have to mist or water the spider sections directly. The ventilation system, is a pair of 5V 25mm x 25mm inline fans inside the buffer section, connected to acrylic tubes that discharge into the spider sections at about 2 CFM and exhausting through the lid vent. This way I get air flow up the inside glass walls to keep them from fogging. I can also reverse the fans with a switch and pull air from the lid to help control humidity if I need to.

I was trying to decide on using acrylic or mesh when this question came up. The picture @Dorifto posted above is exactly what I want to void and the screen @Wolfram1 posted might be the right answer here for my project.

Thank you both for your feedback, extremely helpful!
 

Dorifto

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There are three sections to the tank separated by 9mm acrylic panels, each spider habitat will be about 50cm x 25cm x 25cm with a center 'buffer' of 90cm x 25cm x 25cm. I will definitely have a low vent line traversing the entire tank in addition to the vent in the lid. In that center buffer will be orchids, misting, etc so I can pull humidity from there rather than to have to mist or water the spider sections directly. The ventilation system, is a pair of 5V 25mm x 25mm inline fans inside the buffer section, connected to acrylic tubes that discharge into the spider sections at about 2 CFM and exhausting through the lid vent. This way I get air flow up the inside glass walls to keep them from fogging. I can also reverse the fans with a switch and pull air from the lid to help control humidity if I need to.

I was trying to decide on using acrylic or mesh when this question came up. The picture @Dorifto posted above is exactly what I want to void and the screen @Wolfram1 posted might be the right answer here for my project.

Thank you both for your feedback, extremely helpful!
I'm more towards the perforated grill more sturdier and they cant be punctured. I didn't use the one @Wolfram1 have, but the pulchra managed to make a hole in her temporary enclosure, and the mesh was thick enoungh... 😅

Also if you are going to use hinges to open the top lid, you can use the perforated grill like a support.

Don't chase specific humidity numbers in their enclosures, I'd be more focused in their ventilation. Isn't going to be any issue if you spread the center buffer humidity across them, but it will be much more important a good ventilation system. Humidity+poor ventilation=stagnant enclosure=dead T.

Also secure every discharge tubes with a mesh and a cap, to block any scaping point.
 

MarkJ

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Great idea on the lid with the perforated, I was planning on using a hinge there so that sounds like the way to go.

I really wasn't looking at any specific humidity levels, I was focusing on the ability to be able to increase or decrease the humidity levels with the ventilation. Sounds like I am on the right track with that.

The tubes actually terminate against the wall of the tank on each end and will get siliconed to that, no escape routes there!

So is there no issue with the spiders' legs and the perforated grills on the bottom? Do those perforated panels only become a dangerous issue in the lid?
 

Wolfram1

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I will say that perforated sheet lids are perfectly fine and carry less risk, they are however large enough for common pests like Sciaridae sp. and Phoridae sp. to enter and exit the tank. I personally hate them and would use the 0,2 mm steel mesh for this reason, but if the rest of your setup isn't fly-proof ether it would be a wasted effort.

Also if you ever want to house dart frogs that need flightless Drosophila as feeders they may squeeze through the perforated sheet metal as well which could be annoying. But If you are simply building a setup for spiders you wont need a mesh at all.



edit: when i think of your setup and how you want to space it, i instantly think of something like this:


idea 1.png
@Dorifto do you think that could work, i am not certain how the spiders would react to a slow, low rotation, air-movement like that, or if the second spider tank would get too humid/stuffy because of the humidity that comes along from the planted middle part. What do you think?
There is also the risk of the fans failing. which wouldn't be good.

sry for the terrible drawing
 
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Dorifto

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I'd do something like that:
IMG_20210914_214219.jpg

This way the only air current they feel, still is at the bottom. The fans on the enclosures at the corners will extract the air creating a lower pressure that will suck air from the center section via the lower grills.

Also, what species you intend to put inside? Because the enclosure's conditions won't be suitable for certain species.
 

Wolfram1

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Oh that looks nice, but wouldn't the grille in the front be useless in that case? After all both enclosures would have the same kind of ventlation yours does exept they are facing the middle part. especially if you make the connection across the entirety of the acrylic divider rather than just a round hole
 

Dorifto

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The front grille will act independently, it acts pasively as the heated or humid air raises, so when this air exits, it creates a lower pressure on top, that will suck air from the bottom, even if the fans are off.

IMG_20210914_222942.jpg

The one that "doesn't work" that way is the middle one, because the top fans will force the air downward, but still the grilles will work passively too, as the hot or humid air raises automatically, so the middle part will act like an exict point too.
 

Wolfram1

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yes i get that but if you didn't modify the aquarium and instead, installed a lower grille in the acrylic dividers and a top grille that runs from the back to the front at the very edge of the tank it would have the same effect wouldn't it? Like two inward facing terrariums.

The point being that modifying the front glass panel is pretty hard if you have no experience in cutting glass. or would that not work?
 

Dorifto

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Yes, theoretically it would work, but then I'm pretty sure that the front glass will fog without any air current raising from beneath.

Also if he only use a grille on the dividers, the humidity levels could be too high, since the only air entrance is from a very humid enviroment. Having a front grille will counteract any possible issue with that, providing a much better ventilation. The divider's grille still will provide humid air, but in a more subtle manner.
 

Wolfram1

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Yes, theoretically it would work, but then I'm pretty sure that the front glass will fog without any air current raising from beneath.

Also if he only use a grille on the dividers, the humidity levels could be too high, since the only air entrance is from a very humid enviroment. Having a front grille will counteract any possible issue with that, providing a much better ventilation. The divider's grille still will provide humid air, but in a more subtle manner.
that's a good point, i hadn't considered the fogging at all but in that case (using the front grille) you could just divide it completely right? There wouldn't be any need for air exchange between the divided parts and i don't see how introducing even more humid air would benefit the spiders. The way i was thinking about it there was a necessity to connect them to the middle part but with the additional front grille that would be no longer the case.
 

Dorifto

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that's a good point, i hadn't considered the fogging at all but in that case (using the front grille) you could just divide it completely right? There wouldn't be any need for air exchange between the divided parts and i don't see how introducing even more humid air would benefit the spiders. The way i was thinking about it there was a necessity to connect them to the middle part but with the additional front grille that would be no longer the case.
Depending on his house conditions it could be an easy way to providing enough humidity to the air, without messing with their own enclosures.

That's why I asked him about the species he is intending to have there, to suggest him the best way to achieve his goals. I don't really see the point moving the humidity from one enclosure to another unless the house values are too low, but I prefer to provide him good information if he intends to do it, so the final results won't harm the Ts.
 

MarkJ

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Wow a lot to digest, you guys are awesome!

So house conditions, I live in the Southern US on the Gulf Coast so we have AC running 80% of the year, this means the indoor humidity is relatively low because the AC does a good job of keeping it that way although outside the humidity is quite high. The exact species I haven't decided on yet but in looking at a lot of different kinds I know I can find one that will fit the rain forest type of habitat I want to have here. I have no intention of handling these guys anymore than is critically necessary and we have a lot of experience managing high maintenance wildlife. I want to recreate their habitat as closely as I possibly can and do everything I can to enable them to live long lives so definitely looking for females. The center buffer will have orchids and other plants growing in there and I may even have a few frogs (haven't researched to see if that would be good or bad for the T's to be able to see prey but not get it).

This diagram is just a top view. The top of the tank will have three independent lids to cover each section. The fans will draw air from the buffer and force it up the face of the spider sections and exit on the other side of the tank through the top mesh. There will be a few perforations drilled in the dividers between the buffer and T sections but not enough to impact the fan induced ventilation. There should be good air circulation throughout the entire habitat by coming in at the bottom and forcing the air to exit on the opposite side of the enclosure at the top. If I go with drilling the air tubes in the T sides it will increase velocity of the air blowing up the face of the glass, going with a mesh/screen here I am not sure would be enough air flow to keep the glass fog free with only a 2 CFM fan. One other thing, the fans are reversible so during the 20% of the year we are not running AC I can reverse the airflow so as not to create too much humidity in the spider sections. I can also set these fans to run on a schedule and reverse flow on a schedule.

Terarrium.jpg
 
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Dorifto

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Too much humidity imho, one thing is to keep some plants and other to different to keep frogs.

Being honest, it looks too much complicated to only provide humidity to both systems, and usually overcomplicated things have more chances to become a problem than the simple ones. And I'm the first one that says that humidity should be taken into account, but that's too much complication imho. A simple round grille at the bottom would provide enough humidity without the need of entering in active fans systems to move humidity from one enclosure to another.

Also, I'd put the top mesh in the middle of the top part, this way the T won't have any oportunity ro reach the grille, reducing to zero any chances of getting stuck.
 

MarkJ

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Too much humidity imho, one thing is to keep some plants and other to different to keep frogs.

Being honest, it looks too much complicated to only provide humidity to both systems, and usually overcomplicated things have more chances to become a problem than the simple ones. And I'm the first one that says that humidity should be taken into account, but that's too much complication imho. A simple round grille at the bottom would provide enough humidity without the need of entering in active fans systems to move humidity from one enclosure to another.

Also, I'd put the top mesh in the middle of the top part, this way the T won't have any oportunity ro reach the grille, reducing to zero any chances of getting stuck.
Where would you put the round grill, on the baffle between the buffer and the spider section? Would you use a grill or just drill the divider between the buffer and and spider section? Without the fans, wouldn't the face of the tank fog up?

I'm certainly not set on keeping frogs as well, it was just a thought really.
 

Dorifto

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I'd put it right at the same level of the front grille. You can drill two holes on the buffer, and glue/drill some grilles to it. You can bury it a bit too, so the moisture will pass from one enclosure to the other, but I'm a bit afraid that it might pass too much moisture from the buffer to the enclosures.

Something like that:
ArchGrille_round_grilles_staggeredhole_large.jpg

If there is air movement, it won't fog. Unless your house temp is too cold and the enclosures temp and humidity is too high, then condensation would be inevitable.

@Frogdaddy could give you some hints to keep frogs, but I wouldn't keep them all together to be honest.
 

MarkJ

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There is no front grill though, I am not going to pull the front glass, cut it and replace it while that would be the easier part of project the wall opening is kind of built around the tank as well. The only way I can get any cross ventilation inside is with fans.

Frogs were an afterthought really, the spider habitat is the primary focus.
 

Dorifto

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In that case don't do it. Do it right or don't do it.

Fans alone wouldn't do too much, they are more a helpful thing than a solution. Without a enclosure with plenty of passive ventilation it won't work sorry. Fans are an addition to improve that ventilation, not a replacement for it.
 
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Dorifto

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You are welcome!

Better to rethink it than creating a mess, and with this things it could occur too fast 😉
 

Wolfram1

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you could make a drier landscape, i keep a Lasiodora parahybana in a 80x35x40 (cm) aquarium without fans. Its just not suitable for such an awesome rain-forest setup as @Dorifto has. Another problem with your tank is its size. There are very few plants that fit in a tank that is just 30 cm tall or was it 25? oh well doesn't really matter the point is its a little too shallow for a proper jungle setup anyways unless you plan on only using very small plants?
 
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