Grammostola Pulchra Pricing

[Venom1080]

No sir. I already addressed that.

I said: "Hobbyist" arrested/fined for brown boxing.

Paul Becker was a huge dealer in the USA who was rated off by Ken The Bug Guy.

Try again.

HOBBYIST

Why does it matter?

It's not a different thing. Same practice and packaging.

@SingaporeB explain yourself then.

 

[Arachnopets]

USFW use hobbyists to reel in the big fish. If I remember right, there were several hobbyists that ended up as collateral damage in the Paul Becker fiasco. Maybe they cut deals, maybe they didn't. There also have been many hobbyists caught over the years. Don't recall every single name. Go do some research and find them. The information is out there ...

Bottom line is, whether you are a dealer or hobbyist, illegal is still illegal.

@pocock1899 Maybe you can help shed some light on this subject matter?

Debby

 

[MetalMan2004]

Produce one example to back this up. Hobbyist arrested/fined for "brown boxing".

ONE example.

Good to hear first-hand the perspective of someone who’s moral compass consists of “can I get caught?” vs “its wrong and illegal so I probably shouldn’t do it.” I wish you all the luck in the world. With your outlook on life you’re going to need it...

 

[miss moxie]

Good to hear first-hand the perspective of someone who’s moral compass consists of “can I get caught?” vs “its wrong and illegal so I probably shouldn’t do it.” I wish you all the luck in the world. With your outlook on life you’re going to need it...

Did you know that meth is ONLY illegal in the states where you get caught with it? It's legal until then!

Ok, ty Metalman. I been looking on here to. No, you're right. Not worth going to jail for..I agree 100%

Just wait for sales. I'm sure there will be at least ONE "black friday" sale coming up. I can feel the itch in my bank account. There might also be Christmas sales or New Years sales even. I've seen'em before, in the past.

 

[SingaporeB]

Why does it matter?

It's not a different thing. Same practice and packaging.

No sir, you and others here have threatened posters here with prosecution in criminal court for "brown boxing" as a hobbyist. I asked you for one example to back up your declarative statements and scaremongering which border on terroristic threats.

I'm still waiting for that one example to back up your abusive tone and posts.

USFW use hobbyists to reel in the big fish. If I remember right, there were several hobbyists that ended up as collateral damage in the Paul Becker fiasco. Maybe they cut deals, maybe they didn't. There also have been many hobbyists caught over the years. Don't recall every single name. Go do some research and find them. The information is out there ...

Bottom line is, whether you are a dealer or hobbyist, illegal is still illegal.

@pocock1899 Maybe you can help shed some light on this subject matter?

Debby

It's really easy. If what you say is true there are multiple links to back up the arrests and prosecutions.

I have not broken your rules either. You need to figure that out. Nothing that you mentioned in the open or in private applies to what I have posted.

English is my first language and I don't need a refresher course.

I will never exhibit any deference to price gougers and I will often find it impossible to restrain myself from blasting them in public. $475 for a female g pulchra is outrageous and that absurd price does not even include shipping which would bring it to at least $525-

 

[Angel Minkov]

How about you move your lazy ass and do as Debby suggested and do some research?

 

[Venom1080]

No sir, you and others here have threatened posters here with prosecution in criminal court for "brown boxing" as a hobbyist. I asked you for one example to back up your declarative statements and scaremongering which border on terroristic threats.

I'm still waiting for that one example to back up your abusive tone and posts.



It's really easy. If what you say is true there are multiple links to back up the arrests and prosecutions.

I have not broken your rules either. You need to figure that out. Nothing that you mentioned in the open or in private applies to what I have posted.

English is my first language and I don't need a refresher course.

I will never exhibit any deference to price gougers and I will often find it impossible to restrain myself from blasting them in public. $475 for a female g pulchra is outrageous and that absurd price does not even include shipping which would bring it to at least $525-

My abusive tone and posts!? Are we reading the same stuff?

Do some research for yourself. It's illegal. If you get caught there is consequences, I'm sure you know how the law works.

And no, I don't recall any threads besides the one I mentioned where hobbyists got caught.

If I was a newb on here that ignored advice and got a heavy fine, I wouldn't come back to brag about it. I'm sure it's happened before.

So what are you saying? It's okay to brown box? It doesn't matter?

 

[SingaporeB]

My abusive tone and posts!? Are we reading the same stuff?

Do some research for yourself. It's illegal. If you get caught there is consequences, I'm sure you know how the law works.

And no, I don't recall any threads besides the one I mentioned where hobbyists got caught.

If I was a newb on here that ignored advice and got a heavy fine, I wouldn't come back to brag about it. I'm sure it's happened before.

So what are you saying? It's okay to brown box? It doesn't matter?

For anyone familiar with the English language I've been very clear. Ken The Bug Guy and Paul Becker were not hobbyists, they were dealers. Paul Becker was the largest volume dealer of tarantulas in the USA. Becker was importing a large percentage of his stock without permits. Becker was not pinched by the postal authorities or Federal Wildlife, he was rated out by his competitor Ken The Bug Guy.

The subject is hobbyists, the people who purchased spiders for their collection from people like Becker and Ken.

I'm still waiting for you or someone else to post an example of someone in the USA arrested/prosecuted for purchasing spiders through the mail without permits.

I feel like I'm in an argument with a religious fanatic. I know not to demand evidence for the existence of their God. You are demanding that I accept your belief that such prosecutions have occurred.

 

[Venom1080]

For anyone familiar with the English language I've been very clear. Ken The Bug Guy and Paul Becker were not hobbyists, they were dealers. Paul Becker was the largest volume dealer of tarantulas in the USA. Becker was importing a large percentage of his stock without permits. Becker was not pinched by the postal authorities or Federal Wildlife, he was rated out by his competitor Ken The Bug Guy.

The subject is hobbyists, the people who purchased spiders for their collection from people like Becker and Ken.

I'm still waiting for you or someone else to post an example of someone in the USA arrested/prosecuted for purchasing spiders through the mail without permits.

I feel like I'm in an argument with a religious fanatic. I know not to demand evidence for the existence of their God. You are demanding that I accept your belief that such prosecutions have occurred.

I
I get it. You just don't believe the law.

I'm not a fanatic lol.. I'm just saying that this is illegal. And you don't believe me.

See my previous post for my response to the rest.

 

[Debbie Mcclure]

I've found one but it's a sling. Only Euthlus sp red I can find are slings and the avics as well. I think I live in the wrong town, lol. Thnx for everyone's help. I wasn't about to go ordering things without a permit. It's like I've read and heard often, stuff like that hurts the hobby and may even eventually shut it down period and I wouldn't want that to happen. Thnx and God bless you all

 

[MetalMan2004]

I've found one but it's a sling. Only Euthlus sp red I can find are slings and the avics as well. I think I live in the wrong town, lol. Thnx for everyone's help. I wasn't about to go ordering things without a permit. It's like I've read and heard often, stuff like that hurts the hobby and may even eventually shut it down period and I wouldn't want that to happen. Thnx and God bless you all

Good luck to ya!!! Sorry we hijacked your thread...

For anyone familiar with the English language I've been very clear. Ken The Bug Guy and Paul Becker were not hobbyists, they were dealers. Paul Becker was the largest volume dealer of tarantulas in the USA. Becker was importing a large percentage of his stock without permits. Becker was not pinched by the postal authorities or Federal Wildlife, he was rated out by his competitor Ken The Bug Guy.

The subject is hobbyists, the people who purchased spiders for their collection from people like Becker and Ken.

I'm still waiting for you or someone else to post an example of someone in the USA arrested/prosecuted for purchasing spiders through the mail without permits.

Since We’re playing the symantics game, no one said purchasing spiders through the mail without permits was illegal. They said that importing from another country without the permits is illegal.

I did you a favor and found a government document that discusses the personal pet side of it. I found plenty on commercial importing but I feel like we have that bit covered at this point.

“The following categories of wildlife and fish are subject to certain prohibitions, restrictions, permit and quarantine requirements:  Mammals, birds, amphibians, fish, insects, crustaceans, mollusks, reptiles, coral, and other invertebrates. “

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2016-Aug/pets-wildlife-unitedstates.pdf

 

[Arachnopets]

Good luck to ya!!! Sorry we hijacked your thread...



Since We’re playing the symantics game, no one said purchasing spiders through the mail without permits was illegal. They said that importing from another country without the permits is illegal.

I did you a favor and found a government document that discusses the personal pet side of it. I found plenty on commercial importing but I feel like we have that bit covered at this point.

“The following categories of wildlife and fish are subject to certain prohibitions, restrictions, permit and quarantine requirements:  Mammals, birds, amphibians, fish, insects, crustaceans, mollusks, reptiles, coral, and other invertebrates. “

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2016-Aug/pets-wildlife-unitedstates.pdf

Just to clarify here, there are NO permits that you can get that would make receiving or sending arachnids/invertebrates through the mail legal. It is 100% ILLEGAL to send/receive any arachnid/invertebrate via the USPS. Fed-ex and UPS are privately owned, therefore it is just against their policy. Since the USPS is still Federal, it is a Federal violation and considered a criminal act. One type of penalty can be jail time. And they don't care if you are considered a dealer or hobbyist. They don't care if you play the "I wasn't aware" card either. Just as a physicians office tells you that it is your responsibility to know what your insurance covers, it is your responsibility to know the laws. Ignorance is not an excuse.

Hope that helped to clarify the legalities a bit.

Debby

 

[Chris LXXIX]

No one ever went to jail or got fined for doing that. Read the reviews for SARNAC and Spidersworld.EU on this site.

They (those that ship) risk nothing, or almost nothing, IMO. Easy for those people.

I believe that only the U.S customer, if spotted, will end in serious trouble.

Consider this... do you think is reasonable for, don't know, some kind of strange department 'I don't know the name' of USA or even the FBI to check outside the homeland for random people selling T's that maybe not even exists in the first place? No, of course.

Example (and I repeat example ): if I ship a Theraphosidae to you, living in the U.S, and the parcel ends spotted by the customs, which address do you think they will check, for ring the doorbell at, between an authentic U.S ones with a real name/surname/etc and another (of utmost 100% existence ) with written over something like:

Mario Rossi (aka John Doe, in Italy)
Via Ferrari 187 - same
Roma (Italy)

lol

P.S

Remember the old motto: what 'never' happened in 50 years can happen in 5 minutes.

The fact that you aren't aware of someone busted doesn't means that something like that never happened: no one can know when 'luck' will end.

Edit:

Another thing involving those discussions about this (illegal) subject which isn't a little detail, btw, is that the so called 'brown boxing' crime isn't related to T's only but to every animal/invert/whatever that enters in the nation in a 'shady' way.

Do you think that if I try to smuggle a monkey, a tiger etc I wouldn't be jailed? Yeah it's the same thing eh, basically, only the animals differs.

 

[SingaporeB]

Good luck to ya!!! Sorry we hijacked your thread...



Since We’re playing the symantics game, no one said purchasing spiders through the mail without permits was illegal. They said that importing from another country without the permits is illegal.

No sir, you are playing a semantics game and you are making straw man arguments.

I'll be extremely clear for you (everyone else reading this thread knows exactly what is being discussed already):

The USA has been a nation for over 200 years. In the past two hundred years the number of spider keeping hobbyists arrested/fined for importing spiders without a permit from a foreign nation is.......ZERO

Zero arrests and zero prosecutions. Zero fines. Zero is the operative numeral.

Links to news stories or arrests/prosecutions on USDOJ government sites that you can produce to dispute what I've just written?

Z E R O

Have a nice day!

Just to clarify here, there are NO permits that you can get that would make receiving or sending arachnids/invertebrates through the mail legal. It is 100% ILLEGAL to send/receive any arachnid/invertebrate via the USPS. Fed-ex and UPS are privately owned, therefore it is just against their policy. Since the USPS is still Federal, it is a Federal violation and considered a criminal act. One type of penalty can be jail time. And they don't care if you are considered a dealer or hobbyist. They don't care if you play the "I wasn't aware" card either. Just as a physicians office tells you that it is your responsibility to know what your insurance covers, it is your responsibility to know the laws. Ignorance is not an excuse.

Hope that helped to clarify the legalities a bit.

Debby

Yes it is and the number of people prosecuted for doing this?

ZERO

Number of tarantula dealers in the USA who ignore this and ship tarantulas across the USA via the United States Postal Service?

Too many to count. The classifieds here are loaded with them Many of them have web sites that are prominent in the hobby and have been so for many years.

 

[MetalMan2004]

Number of tarantula dealers in the USA who ignore this and ship tarantulas across the USA via the United States Postal Service?

Too many to count. The classifieds here are loaded with them Many of them have web sites that are prominent in the hobby and have been so for many years.

I feel like you are getting the terms “illegal” and “didn’t get prosecuted” mixed up. I do at least agree with you that plenty of people ship USPS. There are only so many ways to say it. Illegal is illegal whether they are prosecuted or not. Most people equate “illegal” with “its wrong and I probably shouldn’t do it” although apparently you don’t fall into this crowd.

I’m still not sure what your point is.... I am impressed with your commitment to this though.

 

[Arachnopets]

He's basically going with the "no cop no crime" theory. He seems to be demanding proof, yet supplies none of his own, with extreme definitive statements. I was not aware that he knew every single US citizen to make such a statement that zero have been fined, in the past 200 years nonetheless. Just because someone was not caught (or cut a deal to avoid jail and fines), does not make it any less illegal. Or in simpler terms, against the law. We can only inform everyone what the legalities are. We can not force anyone to actually follow the law. In addition, people NEED to know how this will affect the hobby they claim to love so much. You are not just taking a risk for yourselves, you are risking the hobby, as a whole, for everyone else. Why? Are you really that selfish? How anyone can claim they love this hobby, and in the same breath not care about the laws they will be breaking and in turn risking the hobby being banned outright, is just mind boggling to me.

There is no getting through to him. I suggest we all move on now.

Debby

 

[efmp1987]

Did someone say Grammostola pulchra? Every time I hear pulchra I get drooly, have seizures, hyperactive, go rabid and bite at everyone who dare go near!

 

[Chris LXXIX]

No sir, you are playing a semantics game and you are making straw man arguments.

I'll be extremely clear for you (everyone else reading this thread knows exactly what is being discussed already):

The USA has been a nation for over 200 years. In the past two hundred years the number of spider keeping hobbyists arrested/fined for importing spiders without a permit from a foreign nation is.......ZERO

Zero arrests and zero prosecutions. Zero fines. Zero is the operative numeral.

Links to news stories or arrests/prosecutions on USDOJ government sites that you can produce to dispute what I've just written?

Z E R O

Have a nice day!



Yes it is and the number of people prosecuted for doing this?

ZERO

Number of tarantula dealers in the USA who ignore this and ship tarantulas across the USA via the United States Postal Service?

Too many to count. The classifieds here are loaded with them Many of them have web sites that are prominent in the hobby and have been so for many years.

What about Sven Koppler, then?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...pler-arrested-sending-tarantulas-US-post.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...iling-tarantulas-to-u-s-idUSTRE6B25BX20101203

http://news.sky.com/story/tarantula-smuggling-suspect-arrested-in-us-10490548

Yeah, he was a die harder "T's delivered to the U.S" man and quite frankly, a bit too much 'comfy' (how stupid someone can be? After delivering so much T's, illegally, in the U.S since forever, well, the U.S would be the last nation I would love to be, lol).

Yes, ok. We can assume a lot of things like someone maybe 'talked'. Or maybe, honestly, so much T's are a bit more harder to 'hide'. Or, maybe, his 'luck' simply ended.... but anyway, my question is, does this count as a proof, for you?

Btw I wish to point out the absolutely no fantasy at all names (in the U.S just like in Italy) given for this kind of operations.

'Operation Spiderman', wow, 10/10 for the originality ah ah

 

[Spoodergirl]

Around how much would a G. pulchra cost for a spiderling, and how much for a sub adult. What would it cost in a store and what would it cost at an expo. Can anybody give me an average price?

I am dying to get one, but I heard they were costly.

I just got a 2 1/2" female for $185...

 

[Angel Minkov]

SinagporeB seems to think that if he ignores Debby's posts his arguments somehow still hold any value.