Giant Centipede Handling

[cacoseraph]

Hi Billy,

Your bite report was the first subspinipes bite report that i've ever read when i was first getting into keeping pedes, and it gave me some good warning about how painful a pede bite could be. I think it was a good introduction to the hobby, and started me off with a very healthy respect for all of my larger pedes. So recieving the bite wasn't completely in vain

Cheers,

i definitely influenced me to not hold my subspinipes... i can say that for sure =P

and i mean, dang, i'm obviously a little "special"

 

[324r350]

i definitely influenced me to not hold my subspinipes... i can say that for sure =P

and i mean, dang, i'm obviously a little "special"

you know, all these bite reports of subspinipes make me kinda want to get bitten in a weird way
just to know what a "10" (obviously subjective) on the verbal index is like
i guess it could happen one day
anyone know what kind of triage you get?

 

[Stylopidae]

Painkillers...lots of them.

A centipede's bite won't kill you (unless you're a 7 year old fillipino girl that just happens to get bitten on the head) unless you're old, young or very sick already. It's just really painful. Morphine doesn't appear to phase S. Subspines venom, though.

 

[cacoseraph]

Crack. That guy is on crack. Or some really good beer. "I'll have what 'he' is having!"

i just noticed this

i'd like to remind you there is *another* place to post such comments [thread=48719]here[/thread]

 

[demicheru]

First foray into pede handling!

Well, not exactly "giant", but i think it was only a matter of time i suppose. I've had this pede (WC Scolopendra polymorpha) for several months now, and i finally held it the other night. It was only for a couple seconds, and i basically did the free range method with a little coaxing. I will probably try again before too long. I've held much smaller ones, on the order of 1-2" of the same species.

she's about 4 inches long now, and a bit thinner than she was a few months ago, after popping out ~31 babies in cacoseraph's care.

I hadn't previously noticed the "scales" or whatever they are near the intersection of body segments...could those be mites?

 

[Jürgen]

Oh my God....Mights,Mights,Mitghts....


very poor pede...

 

[cacoseraph]

E. trigonopodus rhymes with wuss?

heh, i must say i am pretty amused right now.

i just got bit by my trigo like four or five times... and let me tell you, it was a lot of work getting it to bite me that many times!

check out the bite report:
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?p=604714
[post=604714]here[/post]

i'd just like to make this very clear... i had to put the first trigo i handled away... cuz i was afraid i was going to hurt it before it bit me! while it was running around free on my hands i was tapping it on the head and body, blowing on it as hard as i could, spraying it with my water bottle... anything i could think of to scare it without actually hurting it. oh, for the (my) record... it was #3 i couldn't get to bite me and trigo (blue) #2 that eventually bit me

when i switched centipedes (refer to the bite report to know what i'm talking about =P ) i decided to instantly pinch the centipedes head in my fingers, as soon as i pulled it out of it's cage (with my fingers). i figured this way it would hopefully think it was under attak. this strategy seems to have worked, as it bit me pretty quickly after that.

oh, something else to note... after i stopped really goading #2 it started walking around and didn't bite me again. the onlytimes i got bit was when i was REALLY trying to.

i'm not saying anyone else's trigo's much less any other centipedes are going to act similarly... and i'm REAL curious to see if mine will act that reluctant to bite again... can't wait for tomorow!

if my bluerings are all pussy cats tomorrow i may try holding my "giant african yellowlegs" too. normally i try not to let the possiblity of venoms mixing in my veins arise... but dang, it's only centipedes =P

 

[Galapoheros]

Well, not exactly "giant", but i think it was only a matter of time i suppose. I've had this pede (WC Scolopendra polymorpha) for several months now, and i finally held it the other night. It was only for a couple seconds, and i basically did the free range method with a little coaxing. I will probably try again before too long. I've held much smaller ones, on the order of 1-2" of the same species.

she's about 4 inches long now, and a bit thinner than she was a few months ago, after popping out ~31 babies in cacoseraph's care.

I hadn't previously noticed the "scales" or whatever they are near the intersection of body segments...could those be mites?

Duuuude, bad mites. I'm a big anti-mite guy. Killed many of my centipedes. I've convinced myself that the crickets and mealworms at most of the pet stores are infested with them. I've said this before good to read again I think. I put a container of mealworms on a glass table. I come back later and it looks like dust is on the table at the base of the container. 1000's and 1000's of pred mites. If you don't know how to get them under control, I'd do a "search" on the forum. Bunch of info. Good luck.

 

[Galapoheros]

Interesting "bite" experience. I'm hoping to get bitten by one that has a "morphine" affect. I saw a show about a famous, old snake handler here in the US. He said he was bitten by some kind of cobra. He said it was a beautiful, opiate-like experience that he was amazed by, and that it was the way he would like to die. Man, venom,... interesting stuff.

 

[cacoseraph]

Interesting "bite" experience. I'm hoping to get bitten by one that has a "morphine" affect. I saw a show about a famous, old snake handler here in the US. He said he was bitten by some kind of cobra. He said it was a beautiful, opiate-like experience that he was amazed by, and that it was the way he would like to die. Man, venom,... interesting stuff.

so you're looking for magic venom too?

heh, funny

 

[pimpin_posey]

whoa

I was lookin at this pic. is that pede eating a scorpion or is that jus me.

 

[cacoseraph]

I was lookin at this pic. is that pede eating a scorpion or is that jus me.

i don't know what you are talking about! :liar:

that is one of your beloved S.h.c. eating a Centruroides vittatus "striped/TX bark scorp", well considered pests in many states.

Further, my buddy has commented on the fact that the native TX cents seem to really know how to take a scorp down compared to other centipedes. It's also pretty well documented that these centipedes prey on these scorps in the wild

pretty wild pic, eh?

 

[cacoseraph]

two things (2/23/06)


1) Centipede Game #1
i invented the most awesome centipede game. i have to make a vid of it. i had my trusty bluering (Ethmostigmus trigonopodus), Smith, out and about on my hands. i looked at roach motel. I looked at Smith.... i knew what i must do!

I took a little hisser nymph, about ~3/4" (2cm) put it on the same hand as Smith. The hisser ran up my hand directly towards Smith, who promptly knocked it off my hand. Drat. Try again... and again... long story short, i ended up actually having to pinch the hisser while Smith grabbed it!

I'm telling you Smith is a sweetheart! I think it's a he, but i'm not sure.

2) Try Some Venom, Won't You
So on finding out that bluering centipedes (E. trigonopodus) are apparently not that big of a deal for *me* to get bit by i decided to try another flavor. Tonight i tried a ~3"BL (8cm) "African yellowleg centipede" sold as Scolopendra species, but possibly another colorform of E. trigonopodus (i need to spiracle check them).

Immediately on opening the yellowleg's container i noticed a difference between it and the bluering. The yellowleg immediately tried to hide/burrow away from me. The bluering kind of mosies off, compared. I reached in and picked up the yellow leg with my fingers It immediately whipped it's terminating legs around and gave me a decent pinch. It was also much quicker at running around, but that could be cuz Smith is probably closer to 5"BL (13cm) and so more inertiafull or something.

Anyhow, it bit me much more readily than either of the two bluerings i tested before... i quickly racked up 4 bites and then the pede got away from me! I was handling over a large plastic tub so recovery was no problem.

I could feel the *ahem* now increasingly familiar sensation of a fluid being injected into my tissue when the centipede bit me each time. The pain initially was very slightly but noticeably worse than the bluering bites. Another interesting difference is that within 10minutes there was local reddening for about 1-2cm radius and small raised white welts at each puncture location. I don't really think the pain increased much beyond being noticeable and again in no way was it really uncomfortable. There was a more visible reaction in the skin around the bites with this yellowleg than the bluering bites... but not really painful

I think i might go play with my 5"BL yellowleg in a bit... we'll have to see

edit:
about ~36 hours after the biting my left first finger is quite swollen. the swelling extends down into my palma little too=P

it's not red and doesn't feel like a secondary infection. in fact it is quite similar (but lesser) to the reaction i experienced to my Scolopendra polymorpha bite. i suspect it's cuz the poly pumped for 3-5 minutes and the yellowleg just made 4-5 fractional second strikes. this would lead me to think the yellowleg's venom is more reactive than the polymorphas, but that is ghetto guerilla "science" =P

note: i can clearly see evidence of two double pucntures and a single puncture on my swollen finger, leading me to think it is venom action.

edit: wow, four or five days after the fact 3 of my bites look like they are going VERY SLIGHTLY necrotic/cytolysic! how completely awesome! the only other time i had a necrotic reaction was to a Cheiracanthum mildei (yellow sac spider at any rate) bite!!! i'm very excited! 5 of the puncture wounds have turned into very small (1-2mm) open wounds, extending down into a few layers of my skin. they appear to have gotten larger since yesterday which leads me to believe there is a cytotoxic effect going on!

 

[cacoseraph]

ouch ouch ouch

took a good 1second bite on my lower left arm... another 3second "pulsed" bite on my left thumb on the outside of my joint (i'm right handed by the way... i take the hits on my left when i can )

the 5" yellowleg DEFINITELY hurts more than the trigos!!!

almost immediate onset of level .5 pain ramped up to 1 in a minute then fell down to a ~.3

geesh, the arm bite was slicked with extra venom... i tried to taste it but it didn't taste like anything

there is a 1cm raised white ring on my arm bite, clearly visible 2-3minutes after the bite. my thumb joint is swelling a tiny bit.

it's likely this dose is going to reactivate last weeks... we'll see if my other bites sympathetically swell. i've had that happen with polymorpha

edit: this yellowleg didn't bite me until i squeezed it a tiny bit... then it bit me FAST compared to the trigos! it took me like 30-60 seconds to garner both bites!

more and more i wouldn't suggest this as a species to hold for a beginner!

edit:
bah, 10-15mins later i can't really feel anything except the slight disturance from the mechanical damage... now i get to see if it's necrotizing for SURE!

edit:
about an hour after the bites, my like.. *bones* started to ache under the arm bite. the bite is ~3" (8cm) "above" my wrist... and my wrist and lower radius and ulna feel sore! and the feeling is strongest right under the bite! i read about a distinct "sprained" feeling in Dr. Stockwell's S. subspinipes bite... i believe i am experiencing a very mild form of that! *does a little dance*

good stuff! it doesn't hurt to the point of being even annoying... but it is a definte strange sensation!

edit: the only evidence of my bites at +5h is the bone ache (perhaps more pronounced now than when it set it earlier... but still not really painful, more interesting than anything. i keep moving my wrist to "feel" it)

edit: +7-8h... you know, i think it is my muscles that hurt. the harder i flex my arm the more it hurts. if i flex hard the pain gets up to maybe .7

 

[Galapoheros]

Ding..........dang..............dong...............diddly ! That was pretty entertaining! I've picked up some big pedes but when a baby castaneiceps started nibbling on my knuckle while shakin it's booty, it went back in the container. I'm curious but don't have the courage to experience the bites willingly. Someone has to do it. As crazy as this sounds, researchers do this for......research. Hope you have a phone or friend there just in case. Let us know when you find the opium pede. It would take an arachnodealer to a new level.

 

[cacoseraph]

Ding..........dang..............dong...............diddly ! That was pretty entertaining! I've picked up some big pedes but when a baby castaneiceps started nibbling on my knuckle while shakin it's booty, it went back in the container. I'm curious but don't have the courage to experience the bites willingly. Someone has to do it. As crazy as this sounds, researchers do this for......research. Hope you have a phone or friend there just in case. Let us know when you find the opium pede. It would take an arachnodealer to a new level.

there are these japanese ones. psychotropic.

also give you Korskoff's Sydrome supposedly, a VERY strange short term memory dysfunction.

 

[gphx]

Hello,

I've had a lot of experience handling centipedes. First, I've wild caught quite a number of S. polymorpha, S. heros castanecieps, and S. h. arizonensis. With the S. polymorpha I ended up taking them for granted and carrying them around in a closed fist til I could find a container. Bites from smaller specimens were common - but minor. Then one day I picked up a larger one in springtime. It bit me in the thumb. That one hurt considerably and to my surprise the thumb became fairly swollen. The thumb was back to normal within a week. A friend who does venom extraction and analysis told me he's discovered in his lab that Scolopendra are a lot like rattlesnakes in that, after not having used any venom for a season, their venom is very concentrated and they are capable of delivering a much different dose with dramatically different effects.

A few years ago I did a handling demonstration of several large Scolopendrid species including S. h. castanecieps and an especially big S. gigantea (as they were then called) nicknamed 'Big Ass Ham'. I prefaced the demonstration by saying I was either about to give a demonstration or to go to the hospital. It was fairly uneventful. After the show Billy Norton approached me wanting to buy the S. gigantea. I wasn't anxious to sell and in hindsight the Peruvian borders closed shortly thereafter, but after a couple of days of Billy asking me I relented, on the condition that he promise not handle it.

Apparently as soon as he got it home he handled it. He handled it once more after that and got bit. His hand and forearm swelled severely and a serious infection set in. Billy was under a doctor's care for a while and on medication for a couple weeks if I remember correctly.

As far as I'm aware Dr. Scott Stockwell is the only other individual who has given handling demonstrations at the ATS conventions. According to troll Scott told him that he gets bit about every other time he gives a demonstration. As I understand it he rarely gives them as sometimes the bites he's received have been altogether unpleasant.

Carl Sandefer is another person who has reported being bitten by a large Scolopendra, in his case a subspinipes if my recollection is correct. The bite was extremely painful and he reported that his hand swelled up like a medical glove blown up as if it were a balloon.

Once I was shooting publicity stills with David Attenborough of the BBC documentaries. My task at that moment of that day was to pose a Scolopendra subspinipes running across a log in front of David so he could look upon it from above and be filmed in the process. Apparently there was some issue with the camera and I ended up running that S. subspinipes across that log a couple of dozen times, maybe more. None of the usual tools I'd brought with me were working out very well logistically and it was a warm day and the centipede was only getting warmer, so I did much of that manipulation with my hands. I can tell you that I've been bitten and stung by a lot of things, some of them high caliber and a few of them intentionally so, but even so I wouldn't care to repeat that particular part of that day ever again. Not that I was bitten but I was acutely aware we were pushing it to its limit and it was just a matter of time. I was fortunate and what I expected did not come.

In my opinion anyone handling Scolopendra should realize that eventually they will get bit and, if they're lucky, it'll only be painful instead of extremely painful and expensive.

Even though I didn't get bit filming that day I rarely handle the big boys any more. Standing there in the sun with a centipede crawling across my hand I remembered watching one bite a mouse and seeing the mouse go instantly motionless, then becoming some strange colors shortly thereafter. And then I imagined what could happen if one thought my thumb was a mouse. Since that moment I don't feed centipedes pinkies anymore. Why get them accustomed to eating things that look like thumbs?

There was a show on cable a few years back called 'The Big Sting'. It featured a reenactment of a hobbyist whose S. subspinipes ran across his hand and took a bite. As I understand it he didn't have a very good time of it. The guy who did the reenactment for the camera was me. Again there were many takes and this time hot camera lights and so a hot centipede. Someone mentioned earlier a visible change in attitude. If you direct a centipede around often enough, even delicately and considerately, they eventually reach a point where you know you just can't do anything with them anymore or you're going to get tagged bigtime. The problem I think is that we can't take this warning for granted. Just as some ts get cranky prior to a molt but often so far before the approaching molt is not yet obvious, centipedes could be especially cranky at certain times. They can also just be curious. I swear I got bit once just because an African Scolo couldn't figure out what the heck he was standing on so he gave an exploratory bite. It was a surprising one for one so small. All he did was reach the end of my finger, look down, then take an exploratory bite. No warning. No swelling but a hot shooting pain through the finger, the hand, and into the forearm that lasted for most of a day. The centipede was only about three inches long.

So, I have a lot of experience handling large Scolopendra. And, unlike other people I'm aware of who have anything close to the same amount of time spent doing such a ridiculous thing, I've been lucky. It may seem odd then that I'm advising people not to handle them but when you work with something a long time you begin to understand what they are capable of. I'd hate to read here about some kid who gotten bitten then hid the problem from his parents out of fear of punishment, got a secondary infection like Billy did, then ended up in the hospital for a week on an iv or much worse.

It could also be that a couple of bad encounters with a P. regalis and a C. exilicauda have given me more respect for what venoms can do - even when you've been bitten or stung by a species many times and suffered little or no effects. I think a lot of the people casually handling Scolopendra and Poecilitheria, if they received a serious envenomation, would be completely astonished at what 'severe' feels like. Wounds where swelling is involved are among the most painful. Add in neurotoxins that cause your nerves to fire pain signals at twenty times or more frequency and intensity with respect to pain and you have an appointment with hell for the duration. Don't expect painkillers to have an effect and don't forget the antibiotics. If you think all of that is just fine then don't blame me when it happens because eventually it will. Unless you have important professional or scientific reasons to be able to speak of experiences such as envenomations first hand you might seriously question whether, not the risk but the eventuality is worth it.
.

 

[cacoseraph]

Hello,
...

Hello Darrin,

thank you for posting! that was an awsome read. I think i actually reckognize Big Ass Ham from an article i read that you wrote.

I entirely agree that if i continue to hold centiepedes i will get bit accidentily again. In point of fact, i have been bitten accidentily three times (all S. polymorpha) and.... maybe 20 strikes intentionally provoked(S. polymorpha, E. trigonopodus, "african yellowleg"). This is after free handling centipedes at least a thousand times, in species ranging from Alipes genus, to numerous native Scolopendra, to Ethmostigmus, to Egyptian Emerald to Tanzanian Tiger... in sizes ranging from 1"BL to ~7"BL (2.5-15cm)i can't even remember them all. And i've only been accidentily bit three time (twice in the same day by a cranky S. polymorpha)


Unlike tarantulas, there really isn't a good guide to what genus family of centipede venom are more and less reactive to humans. From everything i have read, the chances of permanent debilitation are small, but probably lead by a cumalitive effect of systemic cytotoxin, specifically on my kidneys or liver.

I know that some centipedes are noted for having locally cytotoxic components in their venom... specifically S. heros castaniceps, i think i read a pdf about it. But all the actual doctor documented cases led me to believe the overwhelming odds are that cytotoxic effect resolves itself in a month or so... i think Dr. Stockwell had a er, bump that lasted for a number of months and then spontaneously healed.

I also understand there is some form of delayed expression of symptoms possible, sometimes months after the fact... like the venom is stored in me somehow.

the two most likely symptoms from all my reading are pain and local swelling. the pain, i shouldn't have to worry about... i'm still not planning on holding my subspinipes at any time soon, nor my alternans, nor any of the other, known hellbiters. and should worse come to worse, i have a crazy amount of sick and vac time at work... and believe firmly in the heat trick... and have quite nice health insurance, if i do say so myself

the swelling, i personally find vastly amusing. it is certainly a bit painful, and i wouldn't recommmend it to just anyone.... but i can still type with my ham hands on, so i'm not *too* worried about it either.

secondary infection is a real risk. i think i might start cleaning my new wounds with a couple different substances... but usually i dont' want to risk having residue damage all my little buddies. but i can recongnize anything that's going to be a problem pretty early and go get some random supercillin if needs be.

i guess, in like, summary

i don't think i am unaware of the risks. i also don't want anyone to mistakenly think i want them to hold random centipedes too. i'm willing to risk my life and limb that i am smart enough to do this... but i am not really willing to risk another's.

i'm not a MD or a myriapodologist or even have a degree. i do this at my own risk and recongnize that.

thanks again for writing.

 

[Gsc]

Darrin is the man on stuff like this...lots of great experience...

 

[cacoseraph]

pictures speak louder than

this is approximately 18 hours after receiving two bites for a total of about 4 seconds of "pump time" bites from a ~5"BL "african yellowleg centipede", i believe from tanzanian shipment

swollen left arm:

Hi-Res

normal right arm for comparison:

Hi-Res

side by side, both arms:

Hi-Res

edit:

oh yes, the venom is swelling my lymph nodes. most dramatically and slightly painfull in my left armpit this is not unusual at all for a centipede envomation and should resolve itself with no apparent lasting effects.