German Tarantula Breeder, Sven Koppler, sentenced for smuggling tarantulas today

[spiderpets]

Does it matter who the people were that bought from him and met up? Point is. HE SMUGGLED them in. HE took the risks and HE KNEW the consequences.

How can the exporter be liable for the buyers import permit?
Why should a German national know the US laws?

Would you care about your buyer's laws in detail when selling and sending from your side would be legal?

 

[flamesbane]

Entrapment by the way is unlawfull and illegal in Europe. Even if it would be about a crime, it can't be done.

It is in the US too, good thing it didn't happen in this case....

 

[spiderpets]

It is in the US too, good thing it didn't happen in this case....

Right, they called it sting operation when I remember correct?
So how can it be a sting when this is not a crime in his home country?
The crime appeared once FWS got involved, so it is entrapment in my eyes.

Another thing: Are missing papers for captive born Cites II a federal felony or perhaps more an administrative offense?

 

[Sven]

Isn't Rick West a member here?

He is for sure...

But I'm missing his comments here as expert...
When sending spiders is that dangerous, why he is also doing this through the mail? And why Brachypelma species are included? Because of his function of researcher? Where can you study Arachnology? Is this a new profession?

Also paulatpetshop should easily be able to explain, that he was always importing legal and there never were seized parcels from Thailand...
keyword: routine search

 

[LeilaNami]

The bacteia responsible for necrotizing fasciitis are everywhere, not limited to a few places like tarantula fangs. This bacteria can be found on barbed wire, thorn bushes, cacti, behind your toilet and maybe even on the curtains of the Oval Office. Though the bacteria can be found in many places, the chances of coming in contact with it are rare. So, saying that tarantulas are vectors for these bacteria is like saying that dogs are vectors for rabies. Both statements are true, but so unlikely as to cause any concern.

Hyperbole, such as has been stated, usually only serves the media.

Thank you! :clap: We have it naturally on our skin as well. Staph aureus and Strep pyogenes are especially common and opportunistic. So yeah, if a tarantula breaks the skin barrier, it leaves the opportunity for bacteria to infect. Kind of a "duh" statement but the media sensationalized it I think.

 

[Mez]

Hopefully Rick will come out and justify his comments and/or tell us what he really said.
BTW, thanks for your input, I'm very grateful as I'm sure others are.

 

[Steve Nunn]

Rick hardly needs to bother. You guys have done a great job of creating concepts surrounding his deposition.

1) All the facts Rick stated were correct. So what if you can get infected from something else, how does that hold relevance to this case?? Necrosis from a bite is a possiblity from wild caughts due to prey selection. That's a fact. Tarantula bites could cause anaphylactic shock, that is a fact (Prof. J.Seymour and Prof. Gopal, pers.comm.). Anaphylactic shock can cause death, that is a fact. Do you start to see the potential dangers involved? Because that is what counts, bnot wehat you guys are throwing around. The information for small ranges of some Brachyplema species are obtained through folk like Dr Martha Yanez, who has spent more time in the field researching Brchypelma than anyone. The courts are after that information, not what is most possible, this isn't "Law and Order". They are interested in looking for potential danger. What part of that don't you guys understand?????? What does an infected scratch from a barbed wire fence have to do with potential danger of a tarantula??? Why not compare a car accident (because it's as relevant as the barbed wire comment)??

And Sven, why did your lawyers choose not to question Rick's deposition, when they had every right to??? You had your chance to question his deposition in court, yet you did not. I think that says LOTS about what happened. Poeple here are quick to suggest Rick's actions could harm the hobby (based on media publications, of all things!), I say it's your actions that could harm the US hobby mate, you knew you did the wrong thing, you did it anyway, you've been doing it for years. So, you should have known better, take it like a man Sven, you screwed up, accept it and don't try to place blame away from yourself. You had your chance to question Rick when it counted most, yet you didn't (and that's a fact, not media hype). There was a reason for that, I would only ask everyone to think about that for a minute and then wonder why would that be so.

Perhaps one should be asking different questions. Let's face it, comments by Rick were taken out of context in the media (what's new, if you believe it all, then you're an idiot).

And lastly to say Rick's comments have a negative effect on the hobby (and yet Sven admitted to smuggling and has apologised for his illegal actions), well, what can one say to that....get real. It's the smuggling of illegal animals that will kill your hobby. If anything, Rick is a supporter of the hobby.

A strange day in lala land in the tarantula hobby........ignorance is bliss.

Lastly smitty's comments on Rick being paid for evidence is nothing short of a conspiracy theory, are you for real??? What part of Rick's deposition have you personally read?? What do you understand of the law to say this?? Remember, both sides can question a deposition, yet the defense chose (wisely IMO) not to, if that doesn't make you sit up and wonder why, well, there's no hope, keep reading the media and lap it all up.

Steve Nunn

 

[Arachnopets]

Admin Note

Ok, here we go again. Take 2.

I have already mentioned about posting speculation and conjecture. I said not to do it at all. So unless any of you can prove what you are saying with hard facts, then none of you should be naming names or accusing anyone of anything, period.

The only one who can name names at this point is Sven or anyone else that is directly involved first hand. That's it!

Please do not make me repeat myself again.

** Please note that some posts that were responding or quoting the speculation or conjecture have been removed **

Debby

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Ok, here we go again. Take 2.

I have already mentioned about posting speculation and conjecture. I said not to do it at all. So unless any of you can prove what you are saying with hard facts, then none of you should be naming names or accusing anyone of anything, period.

The only one who can name names at this point is Sven or anyone else that is directly involved first hand. That's it!

Please do not make me repeat myself again.

** Please note that some posts that were responding or quoting the speculation or conjecture have been removed **

Debby

Well I think at this point we buyers need to know who is a legit seller. We as Americans have that right to know! So I hope someday Sven will come forward. That's why this website and forum is for, when someone has a bad transaction with a seller we post and let the people know about them.


Jose Berrios
Exoskeleton Invertebrates

 

[pato_chacoana]

I don't understand how captive breeding an endangered species would do more harm to their wild populations. A person who makes such efforts (weather legally or not) captive breeding spiders, helps to stop and slow down the black market and traffic of wildlife. Captive populations can then help wild endagered populations to get back on their feet if needed, and can be re-introduced in places where it's extinct. A person without the right permits to do such activities, should be encouraged and given the chance to make things possible so these activities can continue, and continue helping wildlife.

I consider myself a conservationist, I love nature, and I encourage people to do captive breeding and I've done it myself for several years. I hate commercial collecting (collecting tons of assorted sizes specimens for selling them straight from nature) and I think it should not be done anywhere. But I do agree that collecting few specimens wisely for captive breeding is a good thing. Then establish captive populations, for research, or hobbysts.

So, are we putting behind bars the correct person here? are we sure about this? Is Sven a person who exploits nature, makes a lot of money, is richer than Donald Trump and doesn't give a damn about wildlife? Or he is a passionate breeder, who can hardly live as middle class citizen, who also enjoys the biodiversity and wants it's conservation in this planet? Is the system correct on this and working great?

Many questions...

 

[Kirk]

Well I think at this point we buyers need to know who is a legit seller. We as Americans have that right to know! So I hope someday Sven will come forward.


Jose Berrios
Exoskeleton Invertebrates

And until such time, let's not encourage unfounded, libelous statements.

 

[PhobeToPhile]

Good points

Unfortunately, we are human, and by definition imperfect...and so are the systems we set up. This is a perfect example. Come to think of it, something similar is mentioned in TTKG-in the case of B. smithi, where the CITES process makes it very difficult to actually transport them across borders, and the initial ban on their export caused the local people who share their range to go back to exterminating the creatures, instead of catching them for the pet trade. But like I said earlier, I just hope this blows over quietly.

 

[Steve Nunn]

Sven did not follow international CITES laws, put in place for the very reasons you state (to avoid wild caught exploitation). Maybe Sven is a good guy who just couldn't be bothered to do the paperwork (but Sven cannot be accused of not knowing CITES laws), but in that case, he can think of it as a lesson well taught.

So, the question really is, are CITES laws too strong or too weak??? The USFWS are forced to follow CITES laws, as are all countries. It is up to each country to enforce those laws, and I don't see why the USFWS should be critiqued for following international laws in place for the protection of endangered animals.

I have no ill feelings toward Sven, but I cannot agree with anyone here that ignoring CITES listings is a wise move (because in essence, this is the basis for the argument in the first place). Rick and the USFWS hardly have anything to do with international CITES laws, the USFWS can only enforce them (and Rick can only provide deposition based upon his experience, which is open for crossing by the defense, which was not done).

Maybe the commercial buyers and sellers should pull their heads out and study the laws to make sure they are receiving the right paperwork. If they aren't, then in my opinion, they are equally to be blamed. All you have to do is follow protocol, you break those rules, expect the worse, it's just that simple.

And if any of you think that Rick tried to put Sven away, you are wrong, plain and simple. All Rick did was provide expert testimony on tarantulas, and as I said, it was equally up for debate within the courts, by the defense council. Rick worked for over 25 years as a wildlife protection officer, and has 40 years experience with tarantulas, and further consults world experts for additional support for his remarks. In my opinion, Rick IS a world authority on tarantulas and this puts him in the unfortunate position of having to provide testimony that might be used to incriminate a fellow enthusiast. A difficult thing to do. The USFWS on the other hand, probably wanted to make a point in Sven's case, pushing the courts to deal out a strong penalty. That's the choice of the courts and how the USFWS act, and has absolutely nothing to do with Rick or his personal feelings toward Sven. So you guys are pointing fingers at the wrong people. Look to CITES regulations, the USFWS and the US courts, those are the intsitutions that convicted Sven, not Rick.

Steve

 

[Arachnopets]

Admin Note

Well I think at this point we buyers need to know who is a legit seller. We as Americans have that right to know! So I hope someday Sven will come forward. That's why this website and forum is for, when someone has a bad transaction with a seller we post and let the people know about them.


Jose Berrios
Exoskeleton Invertebrates

100%, I agree. Hence why I keep mentioning about "proof". If anyone has absolute irrefutable proof, then please, I implore you to post. If you know anyone that has direct first hand irrefutable proof, then please encourage them to come forward and post.

You just can't mud sling accusations without anything to back it up with. That falls under speculation/conjecture and could even possibly be considered to be libel and/or slander.

Debby

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

I didn't realize that Sven came forward. So my question is to the moderators what is the difference between naming names on the review board and on this thread?



Jose Berrios
Exoskeleton Invertebrates

---------- Post added at 07:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:21 PM ----------

100%, I agree. Hence why I keep mentioning about "proof". If anyone has absolute irrefutable proof, then please, I implore you to post. If you know anyone that has direct first hand irrefutable proof, then please encourage them to come forward and post.

You just can't mud sling accusations without anything to back it up with. That falls under speculation/conjecture and could even possibly be considered to be libel and/or slander.

Debby

Sven already name the name of who it is. Isn't that proof enough unless you are questioning that the Sven that just posted tonight is not the real Sven?


Jose Berrios
Exoskeleton Invertebrates

 

[JC]

I didn't realize that Sven came forward. So my question is to the moderators what is the difference between naming names on the review board and on this thread?



Jose Berrios
Exoskeleton Invertebrates

Isn't it obvious? How many of you here are actually part of the case or have been inside the courtroom when this all went down?

Unsubstantiated claims just brings chaos to this whole thing. This is nothing like a review thread. Who are we reviewing? Are you the judge of Sven's case?

 

[Anastasia]

I didn't realize that Sven came forward. So my question is to the moderators what is the difference between naming names on the review board and on this thread?



Jose Berrios
Exoskeleton Invertebrates

---------- Post added at 07:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:21 PM ----------

Sven already name the name of who it is. Isn't that proof enough unless you are questioning that the Sven that just posted tonight is not the real Sven?


Jose Berrios
Exoskeleton Invertebrates

Jose,
chill a little, Sven is here and Am sure he will have someting to say in his time
Have a patience

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Isn't it obvious? How many of you here are actually part of the case or have been inside the courtroom when this all went down?

Unsubstantiated claims just brings chaos to this whole thing. This is nothing like a review thread. Who are we reviewing? Are you the judge of Sven's case?

I'm not the judge, I'm a concerned American citizen who needs to know who are the nine US citizen are. I don"t ever want to buy from this people if they are still operating which I'm sure they are.



Jose Berrios
Exoskeleton Invertebrates

---------- Post added at 07:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------

Jose,
chill a little, Sven is here and Am sure he will have someting to say in his time
Have a patience

I'm happy about that. But I'm not happy about the nine US citizen that are still running loose, plus my original post was taking off. That sucks..... My rights just got violated.


Jose Berrios
Exoskeleton Invertebrates

 

[LeilaNami]

I'm not the judge, I'm a concern American citizen who needs to know who are the nine US citizen are. I don"t ever want to buy from this people if they are still operating which I'm sure they are.



Jose Berrios
Exoskeleton Invertebrates

---------- Post added at 07:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------

I'm happy about that. But I'm not happy about the nine US citizen that are still running loose, plus my original post was taking off. That sucks..... My rights just got violated.


Jose Berrios
Exoskeleton Invertebrates

No, you don't need to know who they are. You aren't going to come to harm if you don't and it would be extremely unlikely that you would buy from one of them in the first place considering how many people are out there breeding. And second, you don't have free speech rights on this forum. The mods control all.

 

[DamoK21]

No, you don't need to know who they are. You aren't going to come to harm if you don't and it would be extremely unlikely that you would buy from one of them in the first place considering how many people are out there breeding. And second, you don't have free speech rights on this forum. The mods control all.

Saying that, then you should also consider that. We all have a right, the mods are here to keep the peace, and protect others from slander as such. Not to remove all rights from every individual here. Everyone has a right to free speech, simple as that.