Forbidding Poecilotheria as pets?

[Stan Schultz]

I have just found the following posting. (Thanks-a-bunch ArachnidJackson!)

http://arachnophiles.myfreeforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9434

And was thereby directed to the following document.

http://www.wildearthguardians.org/s..._11_tarantulas.pdf?docID=683&AddInterest=1059

Do any of the rest of you know anything about this? Any idea of whether it has been formally submitted yet? Any idea of where the USF&WLS is in considering or enacting this proposal?

 

[Anastasia]

you actually have to be registered to see page
what forum is that anyway?

 

[Bigboy]

The wildearthguardians link works. Its just a petition and not one I imagine will get much thought. I wouldn't worry about it meaning no more pokies in the future. They are well established in the pet trade.

 

[Stan Schultz]

you actually have to be registered to see page
what forum is that anyway?

Arachnophiles at http://arachnophiles.myfreeforum.org/index.php.

 

[Chris_Skeleton]

Molur and Siliwal (2004) note the prevalence within the U.S. of the term “tarantula” to describe Poecilotheria species. Collectors and traders in the U.S. ofter refer to Poecilotheria spiders as “tarantulas.” While technically inaccurate, Petitioners use this term because the aim of this petition is to reduce the threat of commercial exploitation, particularly by U.S. entities or individuals, to these species.

Um.... so are they saying Poecilotheria aren't tarantulas? :? These people are dumb.

So say this were to go through, would that make it illegal to own any Poecilotheria?

 

[6StringSamurai]

Are there really so few problems in the world that someone had time to sit down and worry about this? Members of Wild Earth Guardians have nothing better to do with their lives then sit and worry about what kind of pets I have?

I can sympathize with trying to protect habitats, but if you want to preserve a species encouraging responsible commercial "exploitation" of the animal in question isn't a bad place to start.

As long as there are people, the chicken will never go extinct.

 

[pato_chacoana]

For a glance I took, the paper looks poorly done to me. I bet that it was made by people that has no clue about Theraphosids ecology and general biology.
I also find ironic that this kinds of measure will actually do more harm than good in the long run. Why don't they focus on habitat protection??? That's harder huh?? But the great majority of species are getting extinct (by far) by habitat loss... especially in places with tropical forests! I also find kind of funny that a US organization requests this petition for Indian' species...


............whatever

 

[Anastasia]

Agree with Pato,
even so In my opinion here in US breeders produce by far so much of this species for hobby market then its been harvested from the wild

 

[syndicate]

Whoever wrote this is a complete idiot..WC Poecilotheria are not even found/traded in the US hobby!The only thing that is gonna protect them from extinction is to stop cutting down trees in India/Sri Lanka!
-Chris

 

[Stan Schultz]

The wildearthguardians link works. Its just a petition and not one I imagine will get much thought. I wouldn't worry about it meaning no more pokies in the future. They are well established in the pet trade.

That's the whole point! Wild Earth Guardians is trying to REMOVE them from the pet trade as a misguided strategy to protect the remaining wild populations. Their goal is admirable, but their presentation is fraught with factual errors, logical errors, and errors of omission. But, the USF&WLS has historically proven to be inclined to overlook such errors for the purposes of justifying regulations which restrict possession or commerce in all sorts of plants and animals.

Privately, many USF&WLS bureaucrats (and other similar government agencies, state Departments of Natural Resources for example) admit that their personal philosophy is that no one should have any wild animal as a pet. This point of view is somewhat compromised by the facts that all our domestic animals were once derived from wild animals sometime in antiquity, and without taking such wild animals into captivity we'd still be eating grubs and roots in some swamp. And, that while the goal is to protect wild populations, the only real, last hope for those species that are teetering on the brink of extinction is to breed them in captivity. A large portion of the USF&WLS policy and actions finds its roots in this underlying prejudice.

This is particularly ominous when one considers that as soon as the USA passes such regulations, all the other major governments in the world will also fall into line behind them for whatever reason. If you doubt this, you're simply not following current or recent events. So, within a year after passing these regulations, if you still own a Poecilotheria metallica and the government of whatever country you happen to live in finds out about it, you can be arrested and charged with violating that country's endangered species laws.

We only think we live in the land of the brave and the home of the free!

 

[webbedone]

This is absurd, why dont they designate them as endangered but not restrict the possesion/trade of captive bred e.g restrict exports from shri lanka. Arachno culture members maybe the spieces only hope, its not like we eat tarantulas like in some parts of the world!

This reminds me of the Chinchilla situation: the chinchillas that remain in the world today exist totally in captivity, they are completely extict in the wild and they are trying to raise a batch with the absence of mankind to be released into the wild (my wife knows more on the subject). But in this case pet owners actually saved them from extiction!

 

[Terry D]

I doubt any of it would ever pass without the "grandfathering in" of those already in ownership of Poecilotheria spp., etc.- hopefully not, anyway.

Yep, More dipsticks with TOO much time on their hands...........

 

[missscarlett]

I really wonder if the point isn't being missed by just giving a "knee-jerk" reaction to the proposed listing. CITIES regulates the TRADE of species of concern, NOT automatically makes it illegal to own said species. The problem is that without regulation anyone can and often will pay for a wild-caught spider at the best price they can, no questions asked. It goes without saying that just a few years ago many hobbyists, as well as a few zoos, would have jumped at the prospect of obtaining a P. metallica NO QUESTIONS ASKED. Regulation is not necessarily a bad thing for the species, and therefore,for the hobby. We all need to ask ourselves if we want these spiders to be protected from smuggling (which is the aim of listing, not to "take away our toys"). I hope the majority of tarantula enthusiasts would rather there be a future influx of wild genes of this genus from a controlled (or dare I say, "regulated") trade, as opposed to these spiders "blinking out" in the wild then succumbing to genetic problems that doom these beautiful and unique spiders forever. Remember that, unlike the huge numbers of say ...wild tigers ...that have been taken into the pet trade in the past century (and are even as we speak showing the genetic disorders and inbreeding problems!), only a small number, and therefore limited gene pool, of some Pokie species has been brought into the captive bred tarantula trade. Before we just blame "the government" or "the authorities" for "taking away all the Pokies", I'd like each of us to ask ourselves a few questions:
Do you own a Brachypelma?? Regulated!
If we REALLY love our spiders as much as I hope we do, is it more important that EVERYONE have a Pokie RIGHT NOW if it means they might go extinct in the wild?
How many generations do you think your P.metallica has been bred with it's cousins? Don't really know,or didn't think to ask, huh? I know I didn't :<. Even with humans this isn't good ;> JK!
And finally, with all the other regulated species (think big cats, MANY parrots, countless herps!!) how can so many of us own/buy/sale/trade them with impunity if listing means we can't? It's not "Banned", it's REGULATED!
I love my Gooty Pokie, I will think more carefully after reading this paper about where our spiders breeding stock came from, and I will, for sure, SUPPORT their regulation in trade from the wild in order to see my grandchildren have a healthy Pokie in their future.

 

[Philth]

Focus on ending captive breeding , instead of habitat destruction to save a genus? Yea that makes sense........

Like Chris mentioned, in my 15+ years of collecting, trading, and selling spiders in the U.S., I have yet to see a WC Poecilotheria.

Like Pato mentioned ............whatever

Later, Tom

 

[Chris_Skeleton]

Missscarlet, did you even read the article?



How in the world can something from another country be deemed endangered in America? As far as I've read, the ESA only regulates species endemic to North America. So because something is endangered in another country, they are wanting to make laws for the CB population we have in the states. Ridiculous.

 

[jimip]

ok say this does go threw do i have to get ride of mine? can i breed and sell babys?

 

[Vespula]

:wall:... wow... just...wow... The stupidity of some people. I mean, if we were taking them from the wild at an alarming rate, sure, regulate. but we're not. They're being captive bred, so why worry? I have a feeling this will go nowhere.

 

[webbedone]

ok say this does go threw do i have to get ride of mine? can i breed and sell babys?

If you read that document carefully it states that it would be illigal to own purchase trade or export any of the 11 spieces of Poecilotheria regardless of if they are Captive bred or Wild caught!

 

[jimip]

man i love pokies and dont even have mine yet! why does everyone feel they have to meddle in everything. you know theres a county in michigan where you cant own any exotic pets! and i dont just mean you cant have ts but it also includes fish and hampsters. your stuck to just cats and dogs..... that would be fun.

 

[6StringSamurai]

I'm writing to Wild Earth Guardians. Here is my email. I suggest you do the same, and be POLITE and CIVIL and try to sound like you know what you're talking about, ha.


Your petition to ban the ownership of captive tarantulas in the genus Poecilotheria is ill advised.

Wild caught Poecilotheria are extremely rare in the hobby, the vast majority of Poecilotheria kept in the US are captive bred. Poecilotheria are defensive and tricky to keep, and although their venom is not life threatening it is more medically significant than most species of tarantula. As a result most keepers of Poecilotheria are experienced spider keepers with genuine love for the animals.

Your ban will only hurt people who you should be partnering with to help protect these beautiful creatures, and since there is very little importing of wild caught Poecilotheria in the hobby in the US it will not help very many spiders.

The best way to help Poecilotheria tarantulas is to protect their native habitats, and to encourage responsible captive breeding for the pet trade.