One avic is a sling and came from the university's insect zoo, I'm not going to disclose the amount paid for it no matter how many times you ask me. The other avic is a juvie male from the same local breeder as the rosie who is a mm and not in good shape after his postultimate molt... I won't discuss the amount I paid for either of them simply because I can't remember and it is none of your business. Do you feel better now?
Florida vagans pics
- Thread starter Ritzman
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I'm still curious as to your feelings about the pythons, iguanas, etc. I posted about earlier. 
Really not in the mood for a huge debate, I stated my opinion and it turned into Hiroshima, so I'm done.
This isn't about my opinions it is about Ritzman's photos, and they are nice photos of a gorgeous T, I will leave it at that. Sorry for the derail.
This isn't about my opinions it is about Ritzman's photos, and they are nice photos of a gorgeous T, I will leave it at that. Sorry for the derail.
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About the pythons and iguanas...where one sees tragedy, I see opportunity. I'm thinking street venders selling grilled/fried python and iguana meat at local festivals. I'm not sure if I could sell many on eating cats, but then again, people like sausage. On a side note, would somebody please get a little heated about the fire ants and termites? Maybe we could ban them?
by the way, nice spider. Catching your own is pretty rewarding...thrill of the hunt...for the sport of it.
W. Smith
by the way, nice spider. Catching your own is pretty rewarding...thrill of the hunt...for the sport of it.
W. Smith
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Feral cats are terrible for the environment, as our most outdoor pet cats. Realistically outdoor cats should be banned.
However, the fact that cats are tolerated does not mean other non-native species should be introduced or protected. Two wrongs does not equal a right.
However, the fact that cats are tolerated does not mean other non-native species should be introduced or protected. Two wrongs does not equal a right.
Most people believe the hobby stock of this t has been crossbreed and inbreed so much we might not even have true vagans in the hobby. We have a known location of pure vagans (outside of mexico), a colony that is consider invansive though I don't believe a t eats enough to out compete other species. Collection and responsible captive breeding seems like a simple solution of two potential problems.
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those are truly good examples of the species
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They are more safe in captivity.
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Actually, the Audubon Society has been crusading to end the non-native and extraordinarily invasive feral cat population for decades. It's entirely legal to shoot feral cats on sight in Michigan, and encouraged, to boot. For every 1 you actually see per acre - there at least 9 more you didn't see, and their lives are absolutely miserable. They do not thrive in the wild.
In Michigan; the Department of Natural Resources has recently re-introduced coyotes to EAST LANSING, MI in an effort to reduce feral cat populations. East Lansing is a very metro area with very few natural prey items, other than feral cats. In this way - the DNR doesn't have to deal with the crazy cat ladies and bleeding heart liberals who want to support a non-native species that has single-pawedly endangered every single ground nesting bird species, amphibian and reptile in this state. Furthermore - a well fed, healthy house cat who is allowed to roam freely in a non-native geography - is in far better shape to hunt and kill prey items that rightfully belong to native animals - a cat is in essence a "land shark" and one of the only animals in the world who will hunt for entertainment, rather than hunger. Cats do not naturally come from North America. I love cats - but I wouldn't let mine roam free and kill prey it does not have the right to steal from native animals. A cat has no more right to hunt here, than a lion.
Having said all that - CONGRATULATIONS on your beautiful non-native new T! Sorry we missed the trip - looks like you guys had a lot of fun. Maybe next time.
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I agree. Whether it be that hobby b. vagans are hybridized or that the florida ones are an especially attractive variant of the vagans I like them.
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I think about the Florida vagans, and I am thinking...
-Where they live, are they any endemic species that they might harm?
-Is it an already adulterated area or a pristine environment that anything can
disturb?
If it's an already perturbed place with few chances of recovery to its initial state, perhaps the vagans might be useful there, filling a niche that was void because of pollution or else!!!
-Where they live, are they any endemic species that they might harm?
-Is it an already adulterated area or a pristine environment that anything can
disturb?
If it's an already perturbed place with few chances of recovery to its initial state, perhaps the vagans might be useful there, filling a niche that was void because of pollution or else!!!
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I can not beleave they are still there I have not been out to that spot in years.................WOW sweet girl you have there my friend.
I would hope we as arachno people can appreciate what other tarantula folk are doing after all they are "Mexican red rumps" HEY WAIT WERE NOT IN MEXICO So I think by collecting these "NON NATIVE" and beautiful animals and giving them a chance to have a great life in captivity is better then them one day being wipped out by whatever. I dont say go and take every damn one but if a few good hearted people collect a few here and there is not harming them at all. Just my 2 cents.
I would hope we as arachno people can appreciate what other tarantula folk are doing after all they are "Mexican red rumps" HEY WAIT WERE NOT IN MEXICO So I think by collecting these "NON NATIVE" and beautiful animals and giving them a chance to have a great life in captivity is better then them one day being wipped out by whatever. I dont say go and take every damn one but if a few good hearted people collect a few here and there is not harming them at all. Just my 2 cents.
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Wow, you can actually see this place on google streetview.Habitat shot
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I don't see what the big idea in catching red rumps in Florida they don't belong there. The state is trying to figure out a way to get rid of them. They want to kill them so the more you catch the better off they well be.
there are efforts.....oh there are!! you just don't see them or don't hear about them. but there are efforts!! i know this for a fact and i will not get into it! for the record though...im not going around and killing cats!!That's true, but a native species could also come along and kill a water bug. Ether way, it's a dead bug.
Cats are also an invasive in many places, and I don't see anyone crusading to eliminate them....
as for the B. vagans; as a florida scientist, (ecologist) i will tell you that all non-natives have some impact. it may not be big or seen but there is an impact. they are competing with native animals. that is a fact. they are a non-native predator.
the deal with these was/is that no one is really worried about them. they though they'd only be around for a year. but that doesn't seem to be the case.
and for you non-floridians, florida is getting tired of the non-natives here. the burms have been getting all the news coverage because they are big and can kill people. but what some of you don't know is that florida is cracking down on everything!! including bugs! they are trying to implement a permiting program for inverts. i have spoke with the person in charge and he said it is mostly for importers and exportes at this time. T's are including on the permiting list but if they discover that there are no populations of T's in the wild, you better believe there will be crack downs.
FL is serious about this and its only a matter of time before other states follow. just look at Conneticut.
I would be willing to wager that the rosea is wc. The only reason that I asked about money and size is that it would have made a detectable price difference in where the animal came from. You don't need to get so defensive.
Yes but if the tarantula killed the water bug than the native would have to kill another. So on and so forth and magnified. In reality, it probably won't make much of a difference, but it "could." Florida's fauna has proven to be pretty adaptabe to invasives.That's true, but a native species could also come along and kill a water bug. Ether way, it's a dead bug.
TBH
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Heh heh this is a funny thread. I can't believe that someone has a problem with us catching non native species in Florida. Every person we talked to in florida (including the police) was happy we were catching them. I think we brought home 10 B. vagans total. We left a whole lot more behind for next year. They seem to be doing real well there. All I know is it was a lot of fun catching Mexican T's in Florida
Ah, the Rosea came (both times) from a store/breeder, so I can answer. About $30 each time. The most recent one, I'd say, is about 6+ inches, but unfortunatly it's reached it's last molt and exsists soley in a tupperware container until we find the best way to euthenize (sp.?) it.
cg