Can anyone ID this

[NYbirdEater]

Id just like to add after Rereading both NY’s post and my own guess the spider from the macro shots idea, would a basic taxo teaching thread not be a great idea im sure if all the experts here can making such great posts decrying picture ID’s they could put the same amount of effort into such a thread :? just because ppl are new to this hobby or just see there spiders as pets does not mean there dumb and cant learn this stuff

P.S NY if i came over as Eilteist im not m8 believe me i left full time schooling at 13 because of health problems and have to run every post though a spell checker as have mild dyslexic (read find but jumble the letters )

Exactly, posting some good shots and explaining step by step of how to identify (even if not 100%) a Tarantula to the best of one's knowledge would be beneficial to everyone on the board. Making a mockery of an ID just seems like a waste of time. It would also be good to show pictures like the one posted because it is bad quality, but for an experienced person, there still may be definable characteristics that a novice might not realize right away. Teaching us what to look for in either case would be a great learning tool. This is one of the few places (if not the only) where tarantula keepers can communicate quickly over great distances, share knowledge and hopefully become smarter and better keepers and help further the hobby as well as the survival and preservation of the animals we love. The more we know, the more we can educate those who pass legislation banning our pets, as well as friends and family, and yes even pet store owners.

No need to appologize. I didn't hear many voices going against this kind of discussion so I am the kind to take it upon himself to point it out with extreme prejudice so that maybe someone will notice what should be obvious, but nothing personal to anyone. I just hate when it seems like people are being belittled and it gives a certain pleasure to others.Especially since without us all helping eachother, where would we be right now? I have seen everyone here post a problem, including myself. We are all a part of this community. Or, ignore what I say, curse me and tell the mods to ban me ;P

 

[FryLock]

Nope your 110% right, I enjoy Martin’s post’s he posts some great info and some excellent link’s but I too was being to feel he was turning this thread into belittlement or perhaps getting a sense epicaricacy from all this (guilty pleasure the German word is Schadenfreude which is better but its so passé with Lisa Simpson and all that) add to that the thread would fill up with B.smithi pic’s one got in before I could post , but as I stated in my first post back after Martin had his say I had to point out that Martin and others have many times used pictures (both of the whole animal and key features) to prove that a spider is not the species that some one is saying it is, now I don’t want to open up old wounds but Martin (rightly I believe) used sets of pictures of two (at least at that time) undescribed species to show which one was which and again in a thread he himself linked too in one of his posts on this very thread again photographic proof as to why Leon’s spider did not seem to be H.schmidti fine to say pictures are of little or no uses to prove what a species is but ok to prove what it is not seems odd too hold both opinions

 

[NYbirdEater]

Nope your 110% right, I enjoy Martin’s post’s he posts some great info and some excellent link’s but I too was being to feel he was turning this thread into belittlement or perhaps getting a sense epicaricacy from all this (guilty pleasure the German word is Schadenfreude which is better but its so passé with Lisa Simpson and all that) add to that the thread would fill up with B.smithi pic’s one got in before I could post , but as I stated in my first post back after Martin had his say I had to point out that Martin and others have many times used pictures (both of the whole animal and key features) to prove that a spider is not the species that some one is saying it is, now I don’t want to open up old wounds but Martin (rightly I believe) used sets of pictures of two (at least at that time) undescribed species to show which one was which and again in a thread he himself linked too in one of his posts on this very thread again photographic proof as to why Leon’s spider did not seem to be H.schmidti fine to say pictures are of little or no uses to prove what a species is but ok to prove what it is not seems odd too hold both opinions

Maybe it would ne nice for the most advanced keepers and mods to periodically(weekly monthly whatever) to start a learning post. Each time a different topic would be chosen and all members would be encouraged to participate, though it should not be geared to a contest. Maybe users could vote on what the topic would be, if it related to a scpecific species or was more generalized. Maybe each user would be given a task in a PM by the mods which he/she would have to research on their own, and then post their findings in the thread, so maybe the full meaning of the thread would not be fully realized until all posts were in. Deadline of course, but the goal should be to enlighten ourselves and gain knowledge and not for something material. I think it would be interesting to see what would happen. Most everyone here seems intelligent enough to handle that. Plus it gives us something to do in between feedings

 

[Crotalus]

Martin, its time to reveal the ID now I think.
And Frylock/NYbirdeater - I dont think he was turning this into a contest, you both seemed to managed that yourselfs. ;-)


/Lelle

 

[FryLock]

Lelle I know a few of Martin’s posts from my lurking days here I believe he wanted to simulate a good debate at least as much as put forward his own point of view, it was perhaps mean of me to bring his own use of pictures up but I believe it was full justified when one considers the wider argument he is bringing to the table.

 

[Martin H.]

Hi,

Originally Posted by Wade

I agree completely that from a purely taxonomic angle, photo ID's are less than useless. I do think, however, they will have some (admittedly limited) utility within the hobby.
[...]

dito in many points.

Take Nhandu carapoensis for example. I have several spiders in my collection that are labeled that. Lately, there has been considerable doubt expressed on the boards that the pet trade N. carapoensis is really that species. Personally, I’m not wringing my hands over this, if it turns out to be Acanthoscurria, fine, still a nice-looking spider. I am concerned, however, that there may be TWO spiders going by that name. That is a REAL problem, since it can affect captive breeding.

unfortunately there are several example where two ore more different species have been / are sold under the same name: Haplopelma sp. "aureopilosum" has been sold for years labelled as Haplopelma minax and sometimes still is. But in the last two years more and more often the real H. minax popped up on the market. In Germany a certain dealer sold over years a little bit greenish form of Haplopelma lividum as Lampropelma violaceopes. Since 2001 there is a second species on the market sold as Lampropelma violaceopes (first [and sometimes still is] the latter one has been sold as Haplopelma robustum). Arround 1997 someone in the area of Stuttgart (Germany) has erroneously sold spiderlings of A. brocklehursti as A. geniculata. Wondering how many and which species have been sold in the past labelled as Hysterocrates hercules. Or Ephebopus cyanognathus vs. E. uatuman... etc. pp. – many examples like this!

As long as one buys a spider just to keep and enjoy it, I agree it is irrelevant what name it does have (as long as you provide the proper set up). But when one wants to breed them.... not only because of hybrids (most hobbiists probably don't care if they keep a hybrid or a "pure" species) but also to save money. I don't want to know how many males get eaten by the females, because they are a different species than the females without the owner knowing it. See the example above of the Pamphobeteus sp. which has been sold as T. blondi. What would have been happened when the owner would have decided to breed it and bought a T. blondi male for his supposed T. blondi female? How often does this happen, that similar looking species are sold with a wrong label!?

(...Wendy liegt anflehend auf der Erde.....)

*LOL*

You ask us to guess, and then after tons of guesses you start pointing out how rediculous it is to do this, when you COULD HAVE posted the photo and asked everyone as a group what would be the best way to ID a T. AND ACTUALLY TEACH US HOW TO DO IT CORRECTLY STEP BY STEP! Then by examining all the definable traits (if any), TOGETHER WITH YOUR HELP, we could all decide on an educated guess and actually learn something. You obviously know that most of us will try to identify it by looking at what is obvious to US, color, size and shape, proportions, and relation to the background and substrate.

in my opinion there are different ways to teach something: e.g. you can stay in front of a class/audience and explain something step by step. Or you can ask the class/audience what ideas they have to solve a certain problem and when they don't have a solution lead them with some question to the solution you have. Or you can make an "experiment", let make the class/audience an experience in their own body and then after they have had their light bulb moment and are sensitive to the topic you can give new input or even better lead them with some question to the solution you have and let them think it's their own. Or...

In different situations on different topics different teaching methods may make sense! I general it is said, that if someone finds a solution for a problem himself he will accept it and identify himself with it much better than when a third person tells him how to do something!
This time I have choosen the latter, because in the past I had the impression that my posts in which I said that you can't make a reliable ID from a photo only or in which I tried to explain how variable colors are and that in general overall colouration has no importance in taxonomy (exception: the genus Poecilotheria where mainly the markings [not the colour] is used to ID the different species; colour is only an aditional information to ID them) has been almost a waste of time I think.

It would also be good to show pictures like the one posted because it is bad quality,

talking about the quality of the photo, here are some examples of photos which are usually posted in "please ID" threads (I have picked out these threads by random): >>click here<<, >>click here<<, >>click here<<, >>click here<<, ...





since I don't have the time to comment all further posts just a summary: it is none of the suggested species, but some guesses are quite close! =;-)

all the best,
Martin

 

[Rourke]

AAAAAAACCKKK!!!

Did Martin really just make that long post and NOT reveal the identity???

Somebody tell me I have missed it somehow!

Rourke liegt anflehend auf der Erde.....
(not sure what that means, but hoping it will apply universally)

 

[FryLock]

NOOOO Mr Rourke, Khan would never "anflehend" to anybody ;P

 

[Socrates]

AAAAAAACCKKK!!!

Did Martin really just make that long post and NOT reveal the identity???

Somebody tell me I have missed it somehow!

Rourke liegt anflehend auf der Erde.....
(not sure what that means, but hoping it will apply universally)

No, you didn't miss it anywhere. I myself read through Martin's response three times, thinking I was missing it somewhere.

Sorry about the German sentence I threw in. I believe you'll be taking it back, Mr. Rourke, once you find out what it means, because I honestly can't imagine you in that pose.

Freely translated it means: "<insert any name> is laying on the ground, begging for the revelation."

---
Wendy
---

 

[FryLock]

Martin i did recheck "that" thread (its been cleaned up a bit too ) you did use pattern as well as colour but i think the point still stands that pictures can be a good tool if used right see some of Mr Voi's papers online http://gea.free.fr/pseudoligoxystrebolivianus.htm

 

[WYSIWYG]

AAAAAAACCKKK!!!

Did Martin really just make that long post and NOT reveal the identity???

Somebody tell me I have missed it somehow!

Rourke liegt anflehend auf der Erde.....
(not sure what that means, but hoping it will apply universally)

Yep, he sure did. And not only that, he didn't even address my most
recent guess of Phormictopus nesiotes. (If it's definitely wrong, I'd like to
explore other options).

Earlier, someone mentioned it could just be a Psalmopoeous. I'd had that
thought earlier, but couldn't see the "lightening strikes" on the feet nor the
obvious Chevron on the abdomen so I ruled that out right away. It seems
with even a relatively unclear pic, that info should have sill been seen unless
Martin completely cut off the feet of the spider. Maybe a different species
in that genus? It really is a very leggy critter, though it's hard to decide if
it's because it's an arboreal or just a male of some species or simply just the
camera angle making it appear to be leggy.

Wysi

 

[Tamara]

In post 41 he says it's not a Psalmopoeus. The ocular arrangement is sure distinct. What genera have that arrangement other than Nhandus?
Tamara

 

[MizM]

Exactly, posting some good shots and explaining step by step of how to identify (even if not 100%) a Tarantula to the best of one's knowledge would be beneficial to everyone on the board. Making a mockery of an ID just seems like a waste of time. It would also be good to show pictures like the one posted because it is bad quality, but for an experienced person, there still may be definable characteristics that a novice might not realize right away. Teaching us what to look for in either case would be a great learning tool. This is one of the few places (if not the only) where tarantula keepers can communicate quickly over great distances, share knowledge and hopefully become smarter and better keepers and help further the hobby as well as the survival and preservation of the animals we love. The more we know, the more we can educate those who pass legislation banning our pets, as well as friends and family, and yes even pet store owners.

No need to appologize. I didn't hear many voices going against this kind of discussion so I am the kind to take it upon himself to point it out with extreme prejudice so that maybe someone will notice what should be obvious, but nothing personal to anyone. I just hate when it seems like people are being belittled and it gives a certain pleasure to others.Especially since without us all helping eachother, where would we be right now? I have seen everyone here post a problem, including myself. We are all a part of this community. Or, ignore what I say, curse me and tell the mods to ban me ;P

Oh CHILL for heaven's sake! There has not been ONE WORD even CLOSE to being "belittling". Prior to your outburst, this WAS a FUN thread! I've checked out each species guessed and have LEARNED about some I've never even HEARD of! Of course I'm DYING to find out the species of the mystery T, but in the process, I'm getting a little education and having fun doing it!! Please, don't turn this thread into an argument... everyone else is ENJOYING it!

 

[NYbirdEater]

Oh CHILL for heaven's sake! There has not been ONE WORD even CLOSE to being "belittling". Prior to your outburst, this WAS a FUN thread! I've checked out each species guessed and have LEARNED about some I've never even HEARD of! Of course I'm DYING to find out the species of the mystery T, but in the process, I'm getting a little education and having fun doing it!! Please, don't turn this thread into an argument... everyone else is ENJOYING it!

I'm quitting this <caca butt> forum

 

[FryLock]

MizM Belittlement is perhaps to harsh but im sure NY was detecting the same vibe that many others may have been, but it would seem from the posts now being made here the apprentice’s are prostrating them self’s eagerly to learn but the masters are oddly silent but time will tell , however it would seem by keeping the name of the spider hidden in this last post he seems to have confirmed the epicaricacy i spoke of ;P (not that i begrudge him that), still a fun thread anyway.

 

[FryLock]

I'm quitting this <caca butt> forum

I would not give up on your point of view here so quickly.

 

[MizM]

MizM Belittlement is perhaps to harsh but im sure NY was detecting the same vibe that many others may have been, but it would seem from the posts now being made here the apprentice’s are prostrating them self’s eagerly to learn but the masters are oddly silent but time will tell , however it would seem by keeping the name of the spider hidden in this last post he seems to have confirmed the epicaricacy i spoke of ;P (not that i begrudge him that), still a fun thread anyway.

And it's gotten me to look up a veritable HERD of species that I've never heard of or seen... and have added to my wish list! My only complaint is that if they keep doing this sort of thing, I'll have all 850± species on that list!! Well, going to buy a lottery ticket!

 

[Martin H.]

Hi,

however it would seem by keeping the name of the spider hidden

...in the whole thread I gave so many hints ... there are not many possibilities left ... ok, here is another one: there are some – like you – who have been VERY close to the answer ... just one more little step! =;-)

Cheers,
Martin

 

[FryLock]

Chaetopelma Holothele Ischnocolus Hemiercus are all ruled out (or did you just rule out species listed from tho's genera) plus Africa has been ruled out and it is not clearly not Pseudoligoxystre or Oligoxystre (fovea looks wrong) that leaves Cratorrhagus (from the mid east) or Nesiergus (the Seychelles) :?

 

[Tamara]

Are you sure he ruled out Ischnocolus? Perhaps holosericeus? Or maybe andalusiacus? Those are both in Europe, but I cannot find much about andalusiacus.
Tamara