Can anyone ID this

[Martin H.]

Hi,

access to actuate and concise books that they can use to check there own stock against, like the best ever book on Asian Theraphosid’s that Martin and Volker will bring out in a few years .

not me, for such an effort I really don't know enough – en contraire, but there are two specialists who will write it. Another book, written by a different specialist of course, will be about the South American T's. One specialist is already found to write the one about Baboonspiders. Probably two will write the one about theraphosids from Middle America. North America...
...it's all in progress, but will take it's time of course!

Psalmopoeus?

Tapinauchenius??

both: nope

Tapinauchenius purpurea.

nope

I'll just give a very general guess as to where
it came from - It looks like an Asian species to me.

but it's no asian T! =;-)

On the other hand, the legs on it remind me of a
Thrixopelma photo I saw, but I'd still go with Asian.

and also not a Thrixopelma.



now, with all that nopes and what it isn't it should be easy, shouldn't it! =;-)

Will be interesting to find out what it is. (I haven't
read all the way through the thread yet so if the
answer is there, I haven't seen it yet).

another "problem"/point I forgott to mention above: people are not reading the whole thread but posting replies! =;-)


all the best,
Martin

 

[Wade]

I agree completely that from a purely taxonomic angle, photo ID's are less than useless. I do think, however, they will have some (admittedly limited) utility within the hobby.

When it comes to truly rare and unusual specimens, little aside from examining a dead specimen or a molt will lead to anything conclusive. When it comes to species that are common within the hobby, however, the possibility of making a correct educated guess improves dramatically. For example, say a newbie hobbyist purchases a spider at his neighborhood pet shop. It’s labeled “Friendly orange knee fuzzy butt tarantula” with no Latin name. This hobbyist, wanting to know more, posts a pic on arachnopets. This spider looks like B. smithi, and is identified by several members as such. There is of course the possibility that this spider is a “look alike” species, but the odds are in favor that it really is B. smithi, since this is the most common and wide spread species with that appearance in the hobby. To be 100% sure would require a lot more, but I’d argue that in this type of situation it’s good enough for the hobby.

The question as to what species are misidentified in the first place is a whole other issue. Most hobbyists are not likely to take the time to learn the taxonomic keys to identify their tarantulas themselves. This isn’t a criticism; I definitely don’t have the taxonomic skills to even pretend to be a taxonomist myself. To get to that level, one must be truly dedicated to tarantulas (or at least spiders) specifically. Personally, my invertebrate interests are way to broad for me to ever really understand tarantulas as thoroughly as someone like Martin. People with the skills required to properly ID tarantulas are too few and far between to expect 100% accuracy on the part of the hobby. When a genuine taxonomist takes time out of his or her schedule to identify a specimen for a hobbyist, it’s done as a favor, as animals in the pet trade have no value scientifically. We can’t really expect our limited number of experts to handle this just to be nice!

It’s all well and good to say hobbyist need to learn these skills themselves, but haven’t wanna-be armature taxonomists caused enough problems already? I think it’s better to accept a certain amount of inaccuracy than to culture a new generation of pseudo-scientists. To be honest, from a hobby perspective, it’s much more important that we all call the same spider the same name than it is that the name be correct. That may sound like sacrilege, but hear me out. Take Nhandu carapoensis for example. I have several spiders in my collection that are labeled that. Lately, there has been considerable doubt expressed on the boards that the pet trade N. carapoensis is really that species. Personally, I’m not wringing my hands over this, if it turns out to be Acanthoscurria, fine, still a nice-looking spider. I am concerned, however, that there may be TWO spiders going by that name. That is a REAL problem, since it can affect captive breeding.

The bottom line is photos can’t tell us anything about the real taxonomy of a species; all we can do is guess. Sometimes, however, a guess may suffice, at least in the imprecise and imperfect world of the tarantula-keeping hobby.

Wade

 

[Socrates]

Martin,

You're being cruel at this point. I am such a newby with tarantulas, and even I've been looking at hundreds and hundreds of pictures, trying SO hard to even attempt a guess - but I can't. ..and I won't because I'll just make a fool of myself.

You totally got your point across though about guessing a tarantula species by a mere picture. Would you believe another thread was started WITHOUT a picture, but just a description?

Please don't keep us in suspense any longer.
(...Wendy liegt anflehend auf der Erde.....)

---
Wendy
---

 

[GoTerps]

A Bonnetina sp. perhaps?

 

[David Burns]

I will say, about this thread ,that I've certainly learned that there are a lot of species that I've never heard of.

Also this forum is not a place where info. of a strictly scientific nature is disseminated. Alot of it is fluff and for purposes of entertainment. To be honest, I have gone to some of the links to the scientific papers you have posted and while I appreciate the opportunity check them out. I can get very little from them as I don't have the back ground (i.e.;zoological nomenclature etc...) to understand them. Perhaps someone such as yourself could write a book to explain the meaning of the scientific advances of the last decade in terms the laity could understand.

I always appreciate your posting on this forum as it raises the level for all but a very few.

Dave

 

[Palespider]

Stichoplastoris? Pachistopelma?

 

[Tamara]

Don't laugh at my guesses! I think each of these is possible, but I'm leaning towards the insubtilis.

Citharacanthus livingstoni
Acanthoscurria insubtilis, male, pre-moult

Tamara

 

[MizM]

Pullingourleggius?

You are just LOVING our suspense, aren't you Martin?!!

 

[Steve Nunn]

Hey Martin, I think your point is well and truly proved, why don't you add some real fuel to the fire and give a collection location?

I think it may come from a genus that is very unique in the Theraphosidae and considered by some an enigma.......many T's from all over the world were once lumped into this genus (some still are, obviously) , but without a location, this is a waste of time....up the ante Martin, up the ante.


Thanks,
Steve

 

[Crotalus]

Hi,

can anyone ID this species?

Chaetopelma or Ischnocolus sp?

/Lelle

 

[Steve Nunn]

Ischnocolus sp?

That's what I was thinking Lelle, but it really is hopeless without additional data.

 

[Crotalus]

That's what I was thinking Lelle, but it really is hopeless without additional data.

Sure is. But then it would be too 'easy' perhaps ;-)

/Lelle

 

[FryLock]

My first though was Selenocosmiinae then new world Ischnocolinae then i found a descip that was a match on colour/eyes(front row at least from what i could see)/and fovea from Ornithoctoninae (i know it does not look like any from that subfamily iv seen) which was wrong so l to am back to Ischnocolinae Martin has said its not African so im still thinking new world Ischnocolinae tho not Europe or Asia :?

 

[FryLock]

It’s all well and good to say hobbyist need to learn these skills themselves, but haven’t wanna-be armature taxonomists caused enough problems already? I think it’s better to accept a certain amount of inaccuracy than to culture a new generation of pseudo-scientists. To be honest, from a hobby perspective, it’s much more important that we all call the same spider the same name than it is that the name be correct. That may sound like sacrilege, but hear me out. Take Nhandu carapoensis for example. I have several spiders in my collection that are labeled that. Lately, there has been considerable doubt expressed on the boards that the pet trade N. carapoensis is really that species. Personally, I’m not wringing my hands over this, if it turns out to be Acanthoscurria, fine, still a nice-looking spider. I am concerned, however, that there may be TWO spiders going by that name. That is a REAL problem, since it can affect captive breeding.

The problem is even some of the chaps who are not laymen also make mistakes, and some time rush to get new species named even when they know others are working on the same problem, Martin has pointed this out many times "Nhandu chromatus" anyone also AFAIK most of the good guys trying to stort out the mess in Theraphosid's are doing so on there own time and there own money i believe offen museums can be unhelpfull to them (not letting them lone types for example) this in part may stem from the fact that (again AFAIK) many of the "good guys" are them self's laymen iv also heard someone use the term "Gentleman Arachnologist" (im in the UK remember you can't get a degree in that field here) some say a "little" knowledge is a bad thing but i still agree with Martin about helping ppl to learn more about the Taxonomy (and every thing else) of there pets be it though course work or though having access to well done books, i dont have macro on my cam but it would be fun to take a load of close up pictures of eyes/tarsi and met pads/lab/ect of a common spider in the pet trade and then make them gray scale (to hide any colour clues) and see how many ppl could id the spider in the pictures by looking at there own animals closely i bet a lot would just take stabs in the dark but every one may learn something too (as well as have a lot of fun ).

P.S Wade that spider you speak of the N.carapoenis look-a-like is now Acanthoscurria altmanni (Schmidt-Tesmoingt 2003) i believe, and Martin you may not be writeing that book but im sure you will take a lot of pictures for it

P.S.S Ack I forgot too add this (although its as old as the hills) if the was a proper peer review system for Theraphosid naming “cowboy taxonomists” would not get there work published and then recognised in the first place.

 

[Scorpiove]

I agree with frylock, there is more potential harm in not knowing..............

 

[WYSIWYG]

another "problem"/point I forgott to mention above: people are not reading the whole thread but posting replies! =;-)


all the best,
Martin[/QUOTE]

I see how that could be a problem, though when one is playing a guessing
game, one would like to make the guess without being influenced by other guesses.

Also, several of the posters do not make it particularly easy to read their
posts because they run about 40 lines of text together with no paragraph
breaks. I generally will skim such posts as it all runs together in one big
blurb and is especially hard on my poor eyes.

Wysi

 

[WYSIWYG]

Ok, here's my latest guess...

Phormictopus nesiotes - Cuban Gold

It might help if you had some pix from other angles.
I had only guessed it was Asian earlier because the
abdomen was so much shorter and thinner than the
carapace.

I haven't seen anyone guess Phormictopus so if worse comes
to worst, we can rule that genera out too.

Wysi

 

[NYbirdEater]

For someone who doesn't want wild guesses spewed out you sure postpone your answer till every possible guess IS spewed out. Hypocricy, no one can escape it.

Could just be a trinidad chevron, H incei, or Heterothele villosella Tanzanian Dwarf Tarantula or some other juvenile after a molt or something , the horrible lighting hides the obdomen and carapace features alot. The colors are all desaturated, it's out of focus, and the picture is too low res and compressed to tell. You ask us to guess, and then after tons of guesses you start pointing out how rediculous it is to do this, when you COULD HAVE posted the photo and asked everyone as a group what would be the best way to ID a T. AND ACTUALLY TEACH US HOW TO DO IT CORRECTLY STEP BY STEP! Then by examining all the definable traits (if any), TOGETHER WITH YOUR HELP, we could all decide on an educated guess and actually learn something. You obviously know that most of us will try to identify it by looking at what is obvious to US, color, size and shape, proportions, and relation to the background and substrate.

Your approach has no other obvious outcome than to make YOU and the most experienced of T keepers look superior to the majority of us, while you and your two cronies pat eachothers backs for linguistics points. My advice is you should take turns sticking your blue spikes in some hard to reach places while they photograph you with a cheap camera & the rest of us can sit here and try to figure out what friggin species you are...

;P :} ;P

 

[FryLock]

Ok here I come again as the devil’s advocate ;P, now if this was a real ID me thread if Martin had posted pictures of the spiders dorsal and ventral sides taken with the spider at full spread (to show the legs and there size in relation to each other and the ceph) plus close up macro shots of the carapace as a whole/ the ocular tubercle and eye arrangement (not to be used alone of course)/the sternum / the labium area (not easy too show cuspules I know but other things such as the lab/ster mounds are a key to some Ischnocolinae for example) / the tarsal and metatarsal pads/ a moult showing the coxa and trochanter of the palp and leg I plus the chelicerae (would be hard to show some of tho’s with killing the spider other wise) and lastly (but not leastly) if it’s a she and mature the spermatheca, and you know what I personally could have told Martin about the ID of this spider if he had given all of tho’s pictures that iv just listed… probably nothing BUT an expert could have a very high chance of giving a 99% answer providing #1 he/she had clear shots of all the relevant areas iv listed #2 that the spider is in fact a know named species.

 

[FryLock]

Id just like to add after Rereading both NY’s post and my own guess the spider from the macro shots idea, would a basic taxo teaching thread not be a great idea im sure if all the experts here can making such great posts decrying picture ID’s they could put the same amount of effort into such a thread :? just because ppl are new to this hobby or just see there spiders as pets does not mean there dumb and cant learn this stuff

P.S NY if i came over as Eilteist im not m8 believe me i left full time schooling at 13 because of health problems and have to run every post though a spell checker as have mild dyslexic (read find but jumble the letters )