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Calling all Hadrurus arizonensis keepers or better yet... experts

Discussion in 'Scorpions' started by parabuthus, Sep 14, 2005.

  1. ThatGuy

    ThatGuy Arachnodemon Old Timer

    no kidding i wanna hear an update as well. very curious and excited
  2. parabuthus

    parabuthus Arachnodemon Old Timer

    I still have atleast 3 scorplings left, possibly more. It's hard to tell since they are in a large faunarium with alot of substrate (7 or 8 inches deep). I located two last night deep in the substrate with a black light. They look very big now. I am guessing 4th instar.

    Alot have died due to cannibalism, however, this is part of the natural process in the wild, so I think it was for the best. Plus I don't have the facilities or space right now to care for them on an individual basis without sacrificing the potential moisture gradients that I have with the bigger faunarium. Which I believe was key in getting them this far already.

    In other news, I just bought a H. spadix. I hope it's gravid, that'd be awesome... not sure of the sex yet though.

    And the mother arizonensis is looking plump again and is still blocked in her burrow. I am curious about this, it has been several weeks that she has blocked herself in there...
  3. Gav0r

    Gav0r Arachnosquire

    Good to see you back m8 and glad to hear a few survived..

    I was just wondering had the scorps who were eaten just molted?

    Thanks, Gavin.
  4. parabuthus

    parabuthus Arachnodemon Old Timer

    Can't be sure about that buddy, almost all the scorps, which I am ASSUMING, have been eaten were eaten below the surface. Most likely when they were molting, or had just recently molted, but I can't be 100%.

    I did find the remains of one scorpling on the surface of the substrate. From the size of the metasoma, it was the straggler in the brood and was a molt behind the rest i.e. smaller and thus an easy target.

    I've been away from home alot over the past two months and have not dedicated as much time as I would have liked to my scorp collection. I'll keep a close eye on them again from now on though.
  5. Gav0r

    Gav0r Arachnosquire

  6. Sunar

    Sunar Arachnoknight

    Awesome post and pictures! Thanks a ton! I hope someday to own and attempt to breed some of these guys. :)

  7. parabuthus

    parabuthus Arachnodemon Old Timer

    Very pleased to see this little guy go through another molt. 4th instar. It's getting big now!

    Feeding on a medium hopper in this picture...


    I'll get some more shots asap. Just been swamped lately.
  8. Thiscordia

    Thiscordia Arachnobaron Old Timer

    Great pics bro.
    I currently have 3 little H. arizonensis 2I and i'm trying to raise m together i have m all in a 5 gal tank everything is going ok so far i try to keep food in the tank all the time just in case they get hungry :D. I also have a gravid H. spadix she can barely move, she looks like if she's about to pop.
    Hopefuly very soon.
  9. parabuthus

    parabuthus Arachnodemon Old Timer

    Cannibalism is inevitable, however, I opted to allow this to happen so as to produce one or two strong individuals. I didn't have the space/substrate/time to seperate all the scorplings into efficient set-ups (e.g. deep substrate with a diverse moisture gradient). However, I am happy with the outcome.

    I recommend a desert sand/calci sand combo, with frequent misting and constant feeding opportunity. The scorps must be able to burrow into the substrate without it collapsing. Other than that, goodluck man! :)
  10. parabuthus

    parabuthus Arachnodemon Old Timer

    I have two scorplings left, which I have since seperated. One of them is huge, the other is a molt behind, but ready to pop. I need to get new pics, but my new dog chewed my camera (lol) and damaged the lense. I'll post an update soon (with pics)...
  11. Good job with the Hadrurus. I'm interested in this thread because I have spent quite a bit of time investigating Urodacus yaschenkoi, a similar desert obligate burrower and a hell difficult species to keep.

    I notice you have mentioned quite a bit about spraying water onto the sand surface etc, but you have not mentioned I dont think..apologies if wrong...you havent mentioned how much water was in the soil. If possible go to where these scorpions live and dig down to the depth of soil where they terminate the burrow. Take a soil sample and take it back home....weigh it and then heat it to remove water. Weigh again to discover the water content. It will be somewhere around 1-1.5% by mass, most likely. Bury a hygrometer at burrow base depth in a container in which air can pass and leave it over night in this soil. Dig it up the next day and you will see it reading 99%..most likely. What this means is that this scorpion lives in a subterranean environment where the soil is all but dry, but the atmosphere is nearly saturated. As the scorpion comes up the burrow, the temperature will increase (during the day) and humidity will change. Scorpions adopt different positions within the burrow to regulate water loss via dehydration and control metabolism. So, in your tank, if the soil is very dry underground the scorpions will be losing water via evaporative water loss and this needs to be replenished. Blocking the burrow serves to trap water.

    The problem is maintaining the correct water levels in the soil and as sand loses water easily this is not an easy thing to acheve. One possible way I have thought of, but not used as yet is to create a false top rather than a false bottom. Fill the tank with sand to the depth required and mix in 1.5% water by mass, then cover the sand with glass or wood so it fits tightly in the tank. The wood should have a hole or two for a burrow entrance. Cover the wood with sand for looks etc and allow to dry to make it hard/stable. Have something poked into the soil through the hole so it can be located easily. Once dry, dig it out a little to allow the scorpion to find the right place to dig, clearly it wont be able to construct a burrow elsewhere. This method should trap water in the soil at the right levels and disallow water loss via evaporation. Meaning your Hadrurus will burrow into an environment similar to its natural environment. Your next concern will be temp to control metabolism. Underground at their depth probably 20-25C. I havent tried the above method yet, but I feel it will work. You could also include a false base to add water, but probably wont be needed as the rate of water loss via the one burrow hole should be minimal. Keep the tank as an open system so a humidity gradient can be created inside the burrow.

    Any thoughts on that?
  12. Rigelus

    Rigelus Arachnoknight

    That sounds like quite a good idea Mark...definetly worth an investigation.

    A couple of questions.
    You mention a water content of 1.5% which i'm assuming is the mean average water content from your own area, or is this a general desert average?

    Would you not have to add more than 1.5% water if you wanted a water content of 1.5% when the soil was dry.?

    Many of your previous pictures show a heavily oxidated soil/sand. Heavily oxidated soil is warmer at depth (slightly) than other soil types because of the moisture reacting with the oxide (rusting). Maybe australian scorpions dont' experience such a large temperature gradient when moving up their burows towards the opening.
    Have you ever researched anything along those lines.?

    I think your false top system might be worth setting up for my O.wahlbergii. Although i imagine it'll take quite a while to dry out before the scorpion can be introduced.............................

    Good idea though :clap:

  13. This is from my own area, you would need to establish some idea for each species, although with sand in general this figure should easily give rise to a good humidity gradient and have it feel nearly dry. It doesnt take much water to create humidity.

    The idea is not to dry the soil out, you want the soil to have around 1.5% finished. If you pack the soil down hard and use a false top it will hold a burrow easily...at least the desert sands I use do.

    I'm not sure why you would want to dry the soil out. 1.5% is virtually dry as it is. How are you going to generate humidity if the soil is dry? I use 1.5% because that is the water content of the soil at the maximum burrow depth, above this it is drier in summer and wetter in winter. After rain it reaches about 4% at the surface. I would say I could easily get away with 1% to generate the humidity.

    I'm thinking even using cling wrap plastic across the soil might do the trick, at least as a preliminary experiment.

    Here is a graph of temp readings from U yaschenkoi habitat.
    The soil becomes cooler the farther down you go, at least in summer, in winter this may be reversed to some degree.

  14. Rigelus

    Rigelus Arachnoknight

    Alright, i'm with you.
    It hadn't actually sunk in how little 1.5% water content was...but of course 15 ml of water in 1 kilo of sand isn't going to turn it into a slush den.

    It would be interesting to get hold of other temperature graphs like yours for comparison.
    It's interesting to note that there's a 50 degree flucuation in surface temperature but that from 20cm's down to 50cm's the fluctuation isn't more than a few degrees.
    Have you a similar graph for the colder months?
    Last edited: May 13, 2007
  15. parabuthus

    parabuthus Arachnodemon Old Timer

    I have one of the offspring at subadult I believe. The other is a molt behind.
    I lost the mother :mad: :wall:, who was gravid with a second clutch. I am absolutely gutted. Easily my favourite scorp. I'll try to raise the offspring to adulthood.

    My H. Spadix is still doing great. As is my Imperator. My S. maurus also died last month. He ceased to feed. But that was around 2.5 years in captivity, which is not bad for that species.

    I'll post some more pics of all the Hadrurus asap.
  16. parabuthus

    parabuthus Arachnodemon Old Timer

    I'll try and get my site back online asap, which has all the pics on it. Life has got in the way of my scorp hobby the past year. Getting married, getting a house and car and working all the damn time takes it's toll! But I'll get it all back online...
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