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Calling all Hadrurus arizonensis keepers or better yet... experts

Discussion in 'Scorpions' started by parabuthus, Sep 14, 2005.

  1. parabuthus

    parabuthus Arachnodemon Old Timer

    My query...

    Have you ever had a H.a. give birth to a brood? If the answer is yes...

    1. How long did it take -roughly- for the mother to emerge from her burrow with the scorplings on her back?

    2. How long did it take -roughly- for the young to molt for the first time?

    3. Was there high cannabalisation?

    4. What kind of temp and humidity were you keeping for the scorp at this time?

    My H.a. has given birth to a brood, but has yet to surface, and they have yet to molt. At this point I am a little worried, because it may be two weeks now that she has been down there with the scorplings birthed. Any advice would be appreciated.
  2. prang11

    prang11 Arachnobaron Old Timer

    HA, scorpling survival rates in captivity have been notoriously low. Wish I could give you good advice but I dont think many people know exactly what needs to be done to make these guys survive. I dont think many people have been able to get them past 4th instar. I know my 4th-5th instar wouldnt ever molt and died as a young one. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
  3. parabuthus

    parabuthus Arachnodemon Old Timer

    Yes, I know they are notoriously difficult to raise in captivity past 3rd instar, this is why I am trying to collect all the information I can in an attempt to get off to a good start. At the moment it seems as though she is taking a LONG time to surface from her burrow, and she will be getting hungry... so I am hoping she doesn't cannibalise her young. The young have also yet to have their first molt, and it seems like that is taking a little longer. So I am wondering about temp and humidity at this point, as I know the young require more humidity, or they will desicate.

    Thanks for the response though.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2005
  4. parabuthus

    parabuthus Arachnodemon Old Timer

    Just a small update...

    Many of the scorplings have came off her back now, but she has still not surfaced and has blocked herself in her burrow. That said, some of them are still on her back.

    Some of the scorplings have grown quite a bit too, but have not darkened at all in color at this point.

    I'll report back if anything significant happens i.e. she eats them all, they all eat each other or they all molt successfully :wicked:.
  5. G. Carnell

    G. Carnell Arachnoemperor Old Timer

    seems like its going well so far :)

    good luck with it man!
  6. parabuthus

    parabuthus Arachnodemon Old Timer

    Thanks George!

    I am lucky that the spot she has chosen to block herself in at has a window right in because of her burrowing (sometimes they take the sand right off the side of the tank). So I can have a look from time to time and see how everything is going. Although I try to do this scarcely, so as not to stress the mother out and I block the window over for most of the day to help keep any light out.

    The scorplings are probably 2 cm in length at this point, but still white in color. Some of them are FAT, I'd assume that maybe they have eaten some of the siblings already, but obviously there is nothing I can do about this.

    I have misted the tank lightly, irregularly over the past few weeks to try and create a bit more humidity in the burrow at times, but not overdone it. Getting humidity to 50% for short periods of time. I hope I can atleast get them seperated from the mother and past a second molt, then I can really experiment with it.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2005
  7. G. Carnell

    G. Carnell Arachnoemperor Old Timer

    hmmmmmm :)

    lemme know if you want to sell/trade any!

    its useful to have an online account on this, maybe people can follow your setup, if the moulting and everything goes well
  8. parabuthus

    parabuthus Arachnodemon Old Timer

    George, I plan to set up a website at some point with all my experiences documented as a scorpion keeper. As you know I keep a few of the more popular species in the hobby, so hopefully I can share something with other would-be keepers.

    And if I manage to somehow raise these scorplings, I'll definitely do a trade with you! Hehe... fingers crossed.
  9. parabuthus

    parabuthus Arachnodemon Old Timer

    Well, almost all of them are off her back now and still in the burrow. I am pretty sure I saw an exo-skeleton on her back, meaning they are molting successfully.
  10. buthidae46290

    buthidae46290 Arachnosquire Old Timer

    how can you tell the difference between male and female w/ this species...I recently got 2 and saw what could have been them mating...or fighting...is there anyway to tell w/o counting the pectines(sp)?
  11. parabuthus

    parabuthus Arachnodemon Old Timer

    I am not sure about the tooth count on the pectines. All I know is that even on the females the pectines are very far sweeping. My female was gravid when I purchased her, so I don't have a male for comparison. Somebody on here may have a rough idea though - ?
  12. Mandi

    Mandi Arachnoknight Old Timer

    Ive got a male and a gravid female, one of them has smaller chelicerae although, I couldn't tell you which, because theyre both sealed into their burrows and I cant see them.
  13. parabuthus

    parabuthus Arachnodemon Old Timer

    The chelicerae on my female are quite large, although I don't have a male for comparison.
  14. parabuthus

    parabuthus Arachnodemon Old Timer

    It appears as though all the scorplings have molted, with most being darker in color and being much larger.

    They are ALL still in the burrow with the mother and will remain off her back for periods of time before climbing back on. Sometimes they are ALL off her back, then a few hours later nearly all of them are back on (without disturbance).

    The mother will need to eat soon, being extremely slim after giving birth. I just need to keep watch, incase she starts devouring the scorplings. She sat more or less in the same positions for the last 2 weeks, but now she has moved quite a bit inside the burrow, so I think it is almost time.

    More updates to come.
  15. buthidae46290

    buthidae46290 Arachnosquire Old Timer

    Congrats on the babies! I checked my pair last night and one of them does have noticably larger chelicerae... Hopefully I'll be in your situation soon-ish. {D
  16. TheNothing

    TheNothing Arachnoprince Old Timer

    good luck man...

    I figured I'd chime in with two different methods I've come across through the years in regards to getting a H. arizonensis to molt:

    1- Refridgeration:
    A couple of people have moved their H.a.'s into a refridgeratore for a few minutes, then placed them back into their warm terrariums. IIRC, it was successful for a number of people and their H.a.'s molted within 72 hours. Never was the duration in the refridgerator mentioned, though I figure it was for a very short time. Could simulate Arizona winter (night time lows can reach mid-30sF and occationally touch frost point).

    The most recent report came from a respected scorpion keeper. He opted to give his Hadrurus a "good Mohave rain storm" one night (not too long ago, so maybe I can find the email). His Hadrurus molted within 24 hours. Typical Arizona monsoon season begins in July.

    just a couple thoughts for molts 3 and 4.

    I have tried the monsoon re-enactment, without success. I've always been a bit fearful of the refridgeration...
  17. parabuthus

    parabuthus Arachnodemon Old Timer

    Thanks for the advice. I''ll take it in my stride. Currently they are all STILL in the burrow. I've raised humidity a touch and I've prepared to cut into the burrow if need be... that's right, cut, not dig. I have incised the substrate and will remove it if need be with minimal fuss. All the scorplings look great, but they are all still blocked in and the mother is REAL thin. I've got a good feeling that I will get a decent amount of scorplings to try and raise, but I need to be aware. Keeping vigil, so to speak!
  18. fusion121

    fusion121 Arachnoking Old Timer

    Interesting, I hadn't heard about the refrigeration method. I'd be fascinated to see it in action.
  19. TheNothing

    TheNothing Arachnoprince Old Timer

    It came up on the Unofficial Scorpion mailing list on Yahoo several years ago... hadn't really seen anything about it since...
  20. parabuthus

    parabuthus Arachnodemon Old Timer

    I might try the refridgeration method on one scorpling. It does make sense... cool it down, then put it back in a warm, rather humid setting... could induce a molt as long as it is well fed and ready - ?

    I am going to try the rain thing, for sure. I've been misting the tank irregularly and reasonably heavily into two corners of the tank so far, taking the humidity up just above 50%. There is alot of substrate between the surface and the scorpions, it must be said. I know that adults can't tolerate too much moisture, so the sooner I get the scorplings seperated from the mother, the better.
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