World's deadliest scorpion?

[Outpost31Survivor]

I seriously doubt H. lepturus has a fatality rate 1.5 times that of the king cobra, which is what the first sentence of this article implies. To my knowledge, there is no animal on earth whose bite or sting carries a 90% chance of death, with the possible exception of the inland taipan.

The first sentence of the article is a bit misleading but Hemiscorpius lepturus has scored over 8% mortality rate.

I have a friend that came from Iran and he told me when he was growing up there as a kid, they all feared the black scorpion because it was known to kill kids... It's true, I'm sure they now have excellent care facilities available over there.

Yes Androctonus crassicauda is second deadliest scorpion of Iran.

 

[Ferrachi]

Yes Androctonus crassicauda is second deadliest scorpion of Iran.

I'm pretty sure he was talking about the A. crassicauda too

It's too bad the H. lepturus is not in the hobby... they look really cool

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

I'm pretty sure he was talking about the A. crassicauda too

It's too bad the H. lepturus is not in the hobby... they look really cool

Oh I am definitely sure it is, crassicauda is widespread in Iran. In fact it is notoriously reknown as "the black scorpion" throughout the Arab world. It was named the deadliest scorpion in Turkey, Iraq, and second deadliest of Iran.

 

[ignithium]

H. lepturus no contest.

Androctonus and Leiurus pose no real threat to healthy adult with strong constitution.

Still H. lepturus is unlikely to kill, but necrotoxin can cause severe permanent damage.

The article claiming 90% fatality rate is certainly exaggerating, 90% survival rate is more accurate.

Not even snakes hit 90% fatality rate when untreated, only cone snails.

 

[Dry Desert]

H. lepturus no contest.

Androctonus and Leiurus pose no real threat to healthy adult with strong constitution.

Still H. lepturus is unlikely to kill, but necrotoxin can cause severe permanent damage.

The article claiming 90% fatality rate is certainly exaggerating, 90% survival rate is more accurate.

Not even snakes hit 90% fatality rate when untreated, only cone snails.

You tell the Inland taipan that.

 

[Ferrachi]

You tell the Inland taipan that.

I wouldn't even be surprised if he owns an Inland Taipan...

 

[Sizzlipede]

The first sentence of the article is a bit misleading but Hemiscorpius lepturus has scored over 8% mortality rate. View attachment 371756 View attachment 371757



Yes Androctonus crassicauda is second deadliest scorpion of Iran.

8% is still very high, perhaps the worst of any arachnid, or second to Hexophthalma hahni?

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

H. lepturus no contest.

Androctonus and Leiurus pose no real threat to healthy adult with strong constitution.

Still H. lepturus is unlikely to kill, but necrotoxin can cause severe permanent damage.

The article claiming 90% fatality rate is certainly exaggerating, 90% survival rate is more accurate.

Not even snakes hit 90% fatality rate when untreated, only cone snails.

I wonder if this is a typo it should read 9 in 10 chance of survival or 1 in 10 chance of mortality. I never read it that way until you and @Sizzlipede pointed it out to me. I kept reading it as 10% which is roughly in vicinity of 8+% and thought okay sure they inflated the percentages alittle. My brain never saw that, my brain only selectively saw the 10% but not the preposterous context.

Not the deadliest scorpion, Parabuthus due to the volume of venom they inject per sting (particularly transvaalicus) can inflict nasty severe envenomations. Parabuthus venom causes neuromuscular issues. Parabuthus granulatus and transvaalicus are the only known species to have caused human fatalities, in fact 2-4 deaths occur annually in South Africa by these two species combined.

In 2012, a robust 63 year old male safari guide suffered a severe envenomation from a female Parabuthus maximus scorpion:


"In Meru National Park, central Kenya, East Africa, a robust 63-year-old white male safari guide was stung on the finger by a 10 cm long female P. leiosoma. He felt immediate severe local pain which spread rapidly up the arm. Within the next 1 h, he developed peri-oral then generalised numbness and paraesthesia, and then hyperaesthesia and painful muscle spasms in both legs. After 2h, he had bilateral ptosis, limb weakness, and excessive salivation, and then became increasingly breathless with swelling and numbness of tongue and throat. About 4 h after being stung, an African Medical and Research Foundation (AMREF) aircraft landed. By this time, he was struggling to breathe, and could do so only while propped on his side. He was unable to speak. He was agitated and tachycardic (>100 beats/minute). The hyperparaesthesia was so intense that even a gentle touch felt abrasive and triggered jarring pain and flashing lights behind his closed eyelids. The AMREF doctor administered oxygen by mask and, after about 10 minutes, his dyspnoea and tachycardia were diminishing. No scorpion antivenom was available. He was flown to Nairobi and, 8 h after the sting, was admitted to an ICU still with a high blood pressure and slight tachycardia. Over the next 8 h his condition stabilized. He became able to open his eyes, move fingers and toes, and drink, but his hands and feet remained hypersensitive. 48 h after the sting, most symptoms had resolved, but he experienced generalised arthralgias and myalgias for a further 2 weeks. (David A Warrell, David M Silverstein, Mauro Saio, Sean Dundas, and the late Nigel Dundas – personal communication November 2012). This patient’s rapidly-evolving, sensory disturbances, autonomic nervous sytem overactivity, and lifethreatening bulbar and respiratory paralysis, were reminiscent of envenoming by the notorious P. transvaalicus and P. granulatus in Zimbabwe and South Africa (Müller, 1993). Stings by P. transvaalicus in Zimbabwe caused difficulty swallowing, coarse muscle tremors or myoclonic jerks, tongue fasciculation, copious hypersalivation and profuse sweating (75%); ptosis, slight local swelling and difficulty passing urine (50%), distended bladder (33%), generalised hyperaesthesia, weakness including respiratory muscle paralysis causing respiratory failure and ECG abnormalities (Bergman, 1997), for which an effective antivenom is manufactured in South Africa (Müller et al., 1993)."

In 2020(?), a suspected Parabuthus transvaalicus envenomation of a Kruger Park Trails guide:


Hi all

The below is an account of one of our free lance Kruger Park Trails guides who got stung while doing the Kruger Advanced Rifle shoot in January.


This is the direct account of what happened to Jan Last on the night of 13th of Jan, I have been granted permission by Jan to post it.


JAN LAST – REPORT ON ENVENOMATION BY PARABUTHUS TRANSVAALICUS


MONDAY, 13 JANUARY


At approximately 21:30, as I was getting ready to go to bed, I was busy unzipping my tent when I felt a sudden sharp pain on one of my toes on my right foot. I instinctively kicked out with my foot and I could feel that I flung something. I immediately searched for whatever it was that I had kicked away but I couldn’t find it amongst the tall grass, dead leaves and dry branches lying around. The rapid spread of the of the extreme burning sensation up my leg made me realise that it must be quite a serious problem, and I went to call Donovan to ask to leave the Park and go to hospital. Donovan reacted immediately and he told me to get into his vehicle and we left for Phalaborwa at great haste. As I suspected that it might possibly have been a snake bite, I applied a pressure bandage on my leg above the wound. Whilst on route to Phalaborwa, the symptoms were spreading quickly up my leg and progressing up my body. It was extremely painful and especially notable when it reached the level of my kidneys, it felt like the organs themselves were being affected as well. As it progressed up to my chest level, I experienced shortness of breath, but after a while I realised that it probably was because of the muscles in my rib cage being affected rather than the autonomic nervous system (I think). The burning sensation travelled further up my body and when it reached my head it would start coming in waves, being especially severe in my jaw muscles and when it would hit my sinus it literally felt like I have snorted flames, there is no other way to describe it. At this point I started to feel the sensation of “pins and needles” around my lips, my tongue was also affected, and it made it hard to speak. Not long after this stage we finally met up with the ambulance. I was unprepared for the fact that I could hardly stand on my own and had to be helped into the ambulance with a stretcher. At this point I got violently sick and vomited several times, I do feel sorry for the staff who had to clean the ambulance afterwards. Jaco assessed my symptoms and concluded that I had been envenomated by Parabuthus transvaalicus. By this stage the pain had spread to all parts of my body and it was very uncomfortable to lie down. I was given strong pain medication as well as antihistamine and anti-inflammatory medication.



Symptoms summarised:

• Extreme burning sensation at the site of the wound. The pain spread very fast to other parts of the body. The pressure bandage did not seem to help much.

• Shortness of breath

• Sensation of “pins and needles” first noticed on the lips.

• Impaired sense of balance

• Impaired coordination

• Difficult to speak

• Impaired vision (poor focus)

• Difficulty swallowing

• Nausea

• Vomiting


TUESDAY, 14 JANUARY


I had spent the previous night at Donovan’s house and was picked up by my parents in the afternoon. We went back to Marula Med, and the doctor insisted I be administered at a hospital. I spent the night and the following day at hospital where I was intensively monitored and heavily medicated. I spent most of the time at the hospital asleep due to the medication.

Symptoms summarised:

• Pins and needles sensation had spread to every part of my body

• Hypersensitive to touch

• Poor sense of balance

• Extremely stiff and painful muscles, unable to walk

• Vision impaired

• Difficulty in swallowing

• Pain was largely subdued by medication and only became an issue when

I was trying to move any part of my body.


WEDNESDAY, 15 JANUARY


I was released from hospital late in the afternoon and went home. Symptoms similar to previous day but not as severe in most cases.



THURSDAY, 16 JANUARY


Spent most of the day asleep due to the medication. Not much change in terms of symptoms from the previous day except for speech now completely unaffected.


FRIDAY, 17 JANUARY


I stopped taking the medication because it made me sleep too much. I started forcing myself to walk and it became easier the more I walked. My balance improved and my muscles became less stiff the more I walked. All other symptoms still prevalent but less severe than the previous day.


SATURDAY, 18 JANUARY


A big jump in terms of recovery. Symptoms summarised

• Easier to walk, I could almost walk normally

• Eyes stopped burning and vision back to normal

• Pins and needles still exactly the same

• Slight pain only when I move, and now mostly concentrated around the

site of envenomation

• Balance completely restored

• Swallowing completely back to normal


SUNDAY 19 JANUARY


Almost completely restored back to normal


MONDAY 20 JANUARY – FRIDAY 24 JANUARY


Back at work, all systems normal except for pins and needles and slight pain in my foot.


REMARKS



• The severity of the symptoms and rapid spread made me initially suspect that it might have been a snake bite. When examined by Jaco, he remarked that it is unusual to have bleeding at the site of a scorpion sting. I suspect that it might have hit a vain which could possibly have accelerated and intensified the effects. This might also explain why the pressure bandage seemed ineffective, as the venom probably travelled via the blood stream rather than through the lymphatic system.

• One striking difference that I noticed between this Parabuthus sting compared to those of other “normal” scorpion species which I have experienced before, is that there was no swelling at the site of the Parabuthus sting at all.

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The clinical presentation of scorpionism in the under-13-year-old age group differs in many respects from that in the older patient (>13 years).


Typically, the victim, barefoot or wearing sandals at the time of the incident, is stung on the foot after sundown, usually outside the home. Immediate pain is the most prominent symptom, often described as burning and of an excruciating intensity. The pain lasts for a variable period, usually extending from hours to a day and sometimes even longer. It is usually accompanied by local paraesthesia and pronounced hyperaesthesia. In the normal course most adult patients become aware of paraesthesia in the hands and feet within 1 - 4 hours of being stung. Although paraesthesia may become general it is often experienced in the scalp, around the mouth or in other areas of the face. Generalised hyperaesthesia, muscle pain and cramps are prominent. Every movement and surface contact, such as friction from sheets and bed clothes, causes pain. Some patients describe a sensation of vibration and experience a feeling akin to an electrical current moving through the body, and many complain of difficulty in swallowing and increased salivation.


General weakness, reflected by difficulty in walking, is a common symptom. Some patients experience visual disturbances and a substantial number have difficulty breathing.


On examination, the adult patient is anxious and obviously in pain. Tremors and involuntary movements are pronounced. Bulbar paralysis is characterised by dysphagia, dysarthria and drooling, with varying degrees of loss of pharyngeal reflexes. Increased salivation is typical. The blood pressure and temperature are often raised and the tendon reflexes are hyper-reactive. The relaxation phase of the ankle reflex is occasionally delayed, and clonus may be present.


There is a general decrease in motor power and if the adult patient is able to walk at all, he or she does so ataxically in a gait similar to that seen in alcohol intoxication. Some patients walk in a stiff-legged manner as if to avoid bending their knees. Ptosis, an increase in perspiration and retention of urine may be present in a substantial number of patients. A cold clammy skin is sometimes prominent.

In adults development of systemic symptoms and signs may occasionally be delayed up to 8 hours after the sting.


Although children may present with symptoms and signs similar to those seen in adults, the most outstanding clinical feature is a unique form of restlessness. The restlessness should not simply be interpreted as a reaction to pain but should rather be recognised as a severe form of systemic envenomation. It is characterised by crying and screaming, uncontrollable jerking of the extremities, chaotic thrashing movements, flailing and writhing. The patient is unable to lie still and is difficult to restrain. He or she may assume an unnatural posture and contract the face in a simulated chewing motion, with grimaces and smacking of the lips. The behaviour is completely out of character and abnormal to the extent that those present gather to observe the spectacle. Excessive neuromuscular activity may sometimes be mistaken for convulsions or mimic the central effects of an overdose of neuroleptics, tricyclic antidepressants or anticholinergics. The restlessness caused by scorpionism in children has been described as ‘extraordinary and duplicated by little else in medicine’. The smaller child or infant may, however, present with unexplained crying only.


Bulbar paralysis, accompanied by respiratory distress, is more frequent in children than in adults and tends to be more severe. Respiratory failure is the most dangerous feature of severe scorpionism and is usually the primary cause of death. Severe cardiovascular manifestations such as cardiac dysrhythmias, pulmonary oedema and cardiac failure, which are often associated with scorpionism in other regions of the world, are not such a prominent feature in southern Africa. Although a high percentage of patients present with raised blood pressure, this is not a consistent finding.


Although the sting site can usually be identified, the local reaction is mild and often unimpressive. In some cases it may even be difficult to locate the sting site.

Scorpion sting in southern Africa: diagnosis and management | Muller | Continuing Medical Education

Here are some numbers from a epidemiological survey conducted in Zimbabwe:


184 confirmed transvaalicus stings:

60% resulted in mild envenomations
(n=110-112)

30% resulted in moderate envenomations
(n=55-57)

10% resulted in severe envenomations
(n=17)



10 confirmed granulatus stings:

60% resulted in mild envenomations
(n=6)

10% resulted in moderate envenomations
(n=1)

30% resulted in severe envenomations
(n=3)



20 confirmed mossambicensis stings:

95% resulted in mild envenomations
(n=19)

5% resulted in moderate envenomations
(n=1)




All 214 sting victims survived.

(PDF) Scorpion sting in Zimbabwe

PDF | To describe the epidemiological and clinical features of scorpion stings in a district with potentially lethal scorpions. Case series of... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

 

[ignithium]

I wouldn't even be surprised if he owns an Inland Taipan...

i used to work with the ones they have at the moscow zoo. they are top end of elapids but i dont think 90% fatality rate is accurate. they are so docile that no one really gets bitten anyway, and the venom yield is all over the place.

8% is still very high, perhaps the worst of any arachnid, or second to Hexophthalma hahni?

So much as I know it is the highest of arachnids by some margin, even funnel web is much lower by comparison. regards to hexophthalma its bite is so rare that there is not enough documentation to understand it, it seems that the reputation of deadliness comes mainly from a few scant laboratory studies wherein they found the venom is similar to loxosceles but much more potent. Since they live in the namibian desert and do not bite defensively no bites are properly reported.

The only arachnid that I think can be compared to H. lepturus is Phoneutria fera, whose venom also can cause large damages even when survived, although recently there has been a lot of dispute that spider bite mortalities in south america are incorrectly attributed to Phoneutria when the culprit is supposedly Loxosceles laeta instead. I have never been bitten by either species but I find it more likely that laeta, with necrotoxic venom, is responsible for the maiming and disfigurement that is blamed on Phoneutria bites. However, in my personal collection I have seen mice die much faster when bitten by Phoneutria then when bitten by laeta.

Overall I don't believe that scorpions or spiders as a whole should have a reputation as deadly, even the hot species, though I know most people on this forum are the opposite and like to act like old world tarantulas will crash your car, ruin your marriage, steal your 401k, cut off your limbs and slowly starve you to death if you look at them the wrong way.

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

So much as I know it is the highest of arachnids by some margin, even funnel web is much lower by comparison. regards to hexophthalma its bite is so rare that there is not enough documentation to understand it, it seems that the reputation of deadliness comes mainly from a few scant laboratory studies wherein they found the venom is similar to loxosceles but much more potent. Since they live in the namibian desert and do not bite defensively no bites are properly reported.

The only arachnid that I think can be compared to H. lepturus is Phoneutria fera, whose venom also can cause large damages even when survived, although recently there has been a lot of dispute that spider bite mortalities in south america are incorrectly attributed to Phoneutria when the culprit is supposedly Loxosceles laeta instead. I have never been bitten by either species but I find it more likely that laeta, with necrotoxic venom, is responsible for the maiming and disfigurement that is blamed on Phoneutria bites. However, in my personal collection I have seen mice die much faster when bitten by Phoneutria then when bitten by laeta.

Overall I don't believe that scorpions or spiders as a whole should have a reputation as deadly, even the hot species, though I know most people on this forum are the opposite and like to act like old world tarantulas will crash your car, ruin your marriage, steal your 401k, cut off your limbs and slowly starve you to death if you look at them the wrong way.

The much maligned Phoneutria and Atrox species of true spiders are over sensationalized.

Myth: Deadly Australian/Brazilian spiders

The most notorious "deadly" spiders of Australia and Brazil are not as toxic as their reputation; very few deaths have ever been recorded.

www.burkemuseum.org

Another look at Parabuthus granulatus. The most venomous Parabuthus, three times more venomous than transvaalicus according to LD50 toxicity tests and with a faster acting venom. (Though transvaalicus can yield more venom per a sting).

5 year case study of 42 serious envenomations from Parabuthus granulatus:



Adults and adolescents (n=23 55%)

No deaths (0% mortality rate)


Children (< 13 years n=19 45%)

4 deaths (21% mortality rate)

Google Scholar

scholar.google.com

 

[Johnn]

I seriously doubt H. lepturus has a fatality rate 1.5 times that of the king cobra, which is what the first sentence of this article implies. To my knowledge, there is no animal on earth whose bite or sting carries a 90% chance of death, with the possible exception of the inland taipan.

Black mamba is about 100 percent

E

So much as I know it is the highest of arachnids by some margin, even funnel web is much lower by comparison. regards to hexophthalma its bite is so rare that there is not enough documentation to understand it, it seems that the reputation of deadliness comes mainly from a few scant laboratory studies wherein they found the venom is similar to loxosceles but much more potent. Since they live in the namibian desert and do not bite defensively no bites are properly reported.

The only arachnid that I think can be compared to H. lepturus is Phoneutria fera, whose venom also can cause large damages even when survived, although recently there has been a lot of dispute that spider bite mortalities in south america are incorrectly attributed to Phoneutria when the culprit is supposedly Loxosceles laeta instead. I have never been bitten by either species but I find it more likely that laeta, with necrotoxic venom, is responsible for the maiming and disfigurement that is blamed on Phoneutria bites. However, in my personal collection I have seen mice die much faster when bitten by Phoneutria then when bitten by laeta.

Overall I don't believe that scorpions or spiders as a whole should have a reputation as deadly, even the hot species, though I know most people on this forum are the opposite and like to act like old world tarantulas will crash your car, ruin your marriage, steal your 401k, cut off your limbs and slowly starve you to death if you look at them the wrong way.

Phoneutria and atrax aren't really all that deadly. And as for the h lepturus being the most deadly, I dispute that. The guineas book of world records doesn't have a particular scorpion labeled as most deadly but it has androctonus as being the most deadly family and mentions australis and mauretanicus. The big five are australis, mauretanicus, aeneas, liouvillei, and crassicauda. Those are the five most dangerous, considering yield and potency. Some other scorp have high potency but typically not a high yield like Androctonus. The crassicauda and australis come into more contact with ppl so they are responsible for most death

Even these scorpions usually don't kill but they can in severe cases particularly with immunocompromised ppl and elderly and kids. So I highly doubt the alleged 8 percent mortality rate of h lepturus. None of these five scorp have an overall 8 percent mortality rate even when left untreated. Unless of course if it's within a certain age range. School aged children die about 10percent of the time if left untreated by the more deadly ones

But I will say the chilean recluse has a 3-4 percent mortality rate maybe less. And it has a highly cytotoxic venom so I dunno. Maybe. But I don't know how the guineas book of world records would get that wrong. Although they had atrax robustus as deadliest spider but changed it to pheunotria

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

Tunisia is a hotbed for scorpion envenomations (it has three dangerous species Androctonus aeneas, Androctonus australis, and Buthus tunetanus)


1990-2002 (13 year report n=951)

1. Moderate envenomations - 129

2. Severe envenomations - 769

3. Deaths - 72 (7.5%)

Epidemiological, clinical characteristics and outcome of severe scorpion envenomation in South Tunisia: Multivariate analysis of 951 cases

The aim of this retrospective descriptive study was to describe both epidemiologically and clinically manifestations following severe scorpion envenom…

www.sciencedirect.com

1997-2007 (11 year report n=9,169)

1. Severe envenomations - 9,169

2. Deaths -122 (1.3%)




2013-2015 (3 year report n=282****)

1. Moderate envenomations - 240

2. Severe envenomations - 42

3. Deaths - 1 (0.3%)


**** Data was missing on scorpion species of 123 of the 282 cases (43.6%). The most observed species was Androctonus australis (86.8%), 138 out of a 159 cases. If the australis was responsible for the single fatality that is a 0.7% death rate.

DEFINE_ME

I found this interesting that provides statistical data on scorpion stings in Algeria. The deadliest scorpion of Algeria is A. australis and responsible for the largest percentage of fatalities. Upwards of 75% of moderate and severe envenomations recorded. (Unfortunately 2003 does not work for me.)

envenimation-scorpioniquePublications- INSP

INSP Algerie , sante algerie

insp.dz

ALGERIA 2000-2014 (minus 2003):

< 1 year old
Stings - 4,519; Deaths - 38

1-4 years old
Stings - 35,631; Deaths - 252

5-14 years old
Stings - 130,136; Deaths - 411

15-49 years old
Stings - 413,069; Deaths - 219

50+ years old
Stings - 96,222; Deaths - 48

2000

Stings - 47,521; Deaths - 108

2001

Stings - 48,436; Deaths - 118

2002

Stings - 44,351; Deaths - 81

2004

Stings - 44,775; Deaths - 68

2005

Stings - 47,742; Deaths - 70

2006

Stings - 48,616; Deaths - 62

2007

Stings - 52,168; Deaths - 76

2008

Stings - 49,843; Deaths - 67

2009

Stings - 51,943; Deaths - 54

2010

Stings - 49,574; Deaths - 68

2011

Stings - 49,890; Deaths - 53

2012

Stings - 50,228; Deaths - 49

2013

Stings - 47,735; Deaths - 52

2014

Stings - 46,804; Deaths - 41

 

[Johnn]

It is strongly debatable. I am leaning towards A. mauritanicus.

Also the a. Louivellei has stronger venom than mauretanicus with a ln ld50 of .29 vs a. mauretanicus .31 to .315 vs a. australia .32. can't find size anywhere but if it grows big it could be number one. And if can inject a substantial amount in a sting unlike amoreuxi which has potent venom but can only inject a little

A. Louivellei definitely has the most potent venom of any androctonus though. Gonneti is I think like 20ish mg/kg

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

Also the a. Louivellei has stronger venom than mauretanicus with a ln ld50 of .29 vs a. mauretanicus .31 to .315 vs a. australia .32. can't find size anywhere but if it grows big it could be number one. And if can inject a substantial amount in a sting unlike amoreuxi which has potent venom but can only inject a little

You can't trust LD50 tables because it was conducted on lab mice. Sure A. liouvillei could be the deadliest Androctonus but the reality no scorpion causes more human fatalities in Morocco than mauritanicus. It is definitely Morocco's deadliest. You are just measuring one LD50 rating against another one LD50 rating. Not very empirical. Androctonus australis LD50 ratings have ranged from .32 mg/kg all the way up to 6.00 mg/kg. What about Buthus lienhardi? It has an LD50 rating of .27 mg/kg. Or Leiurus abdullahbayrami? LD50 .19 mg/kg.

 

[Johnn]

Yeah I know the venom potency varies tremendously from region to region. A theory I've had is that the most lethal androctonus are all pretty much the same but I do think they vary a little. I know lqs can be .23 mg/kg to very weak and crassicauda and australia vary tremendously with crassicauda seeming to regularly vary wildly across a spectrum of potencies

I think a lot of it is the heat

But the louivellei has the lowest ld50 I've heard of but I dunno if it's the most dangerous or not. The particularly test animals probably mice could be more sensitive by chance on that test round of testing too. Just happened to be particularly vulnerable specimens or some of them may have been. It's also possible that aa or am could get venom that potent under the right conditions... Maybe

But I'm talking if they got the scorpions and put them under the right conditions so each had maximum venom potency or as close as you could get and comparing them. It's not the genes of different scorpions in different regions of the same species. The venom variations have been linked to environmental factors. With a lot of animals, warmer environment with more rainfall yields potent venom. There may be other factors as welll

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

You need to be careful with these quoted LD50 tables alot could be duplicates e.g. Simard & Watt 1984 is only quoting the LD50s results from Bucherl and Zlotkin. Every LD50 if most every LD50 quoted from S&W came from another source it is a duplicate.

 

[Johnn]

The first sentence of the article is a bit misleading but Hemiscorpius lepturus has scored over 8% mortality rate. View attachment 371756 View attachment 371757



Yes Androctonus crassicauda is second deadliest scorpion of Iran.

I know I'm going back a few posts to the h lepturus with this but I dunno if it's 8 percent percent mortality rate but I've been wanting to bring this joke up for awhile but haven't talked about it yet. They say the h lepturus has an 8+ percent mortality rate but it's also claimed the h. Tamulus has a 8-40 percent mortality rate but supposedly it is closer to 3 now with antivenin. But I gotta say, there is no way it has ever had an 8-40 percent mortality rate. Ld50 is 4.57 mg/kg. It may be different in humans but it is factually less toxic than androctonus. How could it have that type of mortality rate? Makes no sense. Someone made that up and that was passed on from person to person and made it into widespread belief
And thanks for the ld50 list outpost

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

I know I'm going back a few posts to the h lepturus with this but I dunno if it's 8 percent percent mortality rate but I've been wanting to bring this joke up for awhile but haven't talked about it yet. They say the h lepturus has an 8+ percent mortality rate but it's also claimed the h. Tamulus has a 8-40 percent mortality rate but apparently it is closer to 3 now with antivenin. But I gotta say, there is no way it has ever had an 8-40 percent mortality rate. Ld50 is 4.57 mg/kg. It may be different in humans but it is factually less toxic than androctonus. How could it have that type of mortality rate? Makes no sense. Someone made that up and that was passed on from person to person and made it into widespread belief

No, before the advent of prazosin in 1980 which dramatically dropped the mortality rates of H. tamulus stings there were three medical epidemiological papers published somewhere between 1950s-1970s where H. tamulus scored 25%, 30%, and 40% mortality rates in them the victims are predominately children and also H. tamulus inhabits both areas of high density human population and rural areas combined with poor education on scorpion treatment, remote hospitals, etc. H. tamulus is a dangerous scorpion as it kills adults too (with less frequency).

 

[Johnn]

I know it killed a lot before the antivenin but wow. I guess the ld must be disproportionately more dangerous to ppl than to mice compared to other scorpions. But that still seems way too high though. Androctonus doesn't have that kind of mortality rate, even in children from what I hear. School aged children untreated is like 10 percent. 8-40 just seems crazy high. But whatever the case they still must be disproportionately more toxic to ppl than mice than other scorpions. By far

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

I know it killed a lot before the antivenin but wow. I guess the ld must be disproportionately more dangerous to ppl than to mice compared to other scorpions. But that still seems way too high though. Androctonus doesn't have that kind of mortality rate, even in children from what I hear. School aged children untreated is like 10 percent. 8-40 just seems crazy high. But whatever the case they still must be disproportionately more toxic to ppl than mice than other scorpions. By far

Yes H. tamulus is extremely toxic and dangerous to children and the youth not so much to adults but it does manage to kill adults too. I found one of the reports

78 stings, 23 deaths (29%-30% mortality rate)