Wildlife Management: Deer

[dtknow]

The safety issues surrounding a year round hunt would have to be solved first.

 

[RoachGirlRen]

Oh, agreed. As I said in my other post, nothing is ever as simple as "just that." ANY management system is going to have obstacles. I simply wish we would at least explore more options. I don't see any big shake-ups happening when something as simple and common sense as a doe season meets harsh opposition, however.

 

[greenmonkey51]

In California managing wild pigs as game animals allows revenue to be generated for the management of wild pigs. There is no bag limit, season, just the requirment of a tag. Treating them like a pest generates no money and the requires money from else where for research and management.

The PA deer situation was taken out of context. That was an old story years ago and people weren't pissed about population reductions, but point restrictions on bucks. They were pushing trophy management on hunters and telling them what they could shoot.

I'm not sure where you get this short intense hunting season. In most states you can deer hunt for 5 months. I would also like to know how you would get people to hunt in the summer. Its to hot in the summer for most people, meat would spoil quickly in 80F heat. Mid September hunts are miserable enough. There is also huge amounts of cover for deer to hide limiting success. Not to mention most game animals don't have mature antlers.

Agriculture is the reason for deer overpopulation. Is it no coincidence that the highest densities are in large agriculture areas. If you give a species unlimited food no predator can control that species.

The Pittman Robertson act was started in 1937 to benefit low wildlife populations. Once those populations recovered there was a consideration to repeal the act which was heavily opposed by hunters. Don't forget the numerous hunting organizations such Ducks Unlimited and Pheasants Forever that voluntarily donate millions to wildlife projects. Hunters are the great conservationists as they actually willing back up there talk.

 

[Bigboy]

In Nebraska 50k+ deer are shot in 9 days. If need be the harvest could be upped easily. Removal of apex predators are not the cause of deer overpopulations. Agriculture and suburbs are the problems. Every section of corn has a 640 acre food plot on it that provides food and cover. Add a creek and deer don't have to leave...Humans are just part of the ecosystem and can manage the wildlife however they want.

In California managing wild pigs as game animals allows revenue to be generated for the management of wild pigs. There is no bag limit, season, just the requirment of a tag. Treating them like a pest generates no money and the requires money from else where for research and management.

The PA deer situation was taken out of context. That was an old story years ago and people weren't pissed about population reductions, but point restrictions on bucks. They were pushing trophy management on hunters and telling them what they could shoot.

Agriculture is the reason for deer overpopulation. Is it no coincidence that the highest densities are in large agriculture areas. If you give a species unlimited food no predator can control that species.

I was going to respond to this but I don't have the energy to properly explain to you why some of the things you have said here are wrong nor do I want to start an argument with you about why you are not right. Suffice to say you are the perfect example of what I mean by a person misinformed by incorrect general knowledge.

Also consider the removal of 50k annually from a population estimated to be of 300k. In a population with a doubling time of 1 year that is insignificant. It is a sustainable harvest and insufficient to manage that population on its own. Also consider that the hunting population in the US is both aging and declining. There is only so much hunters can do. We really do need better management practices and better federal funding.

 

[RoachGirlRen]

There is only so much hunters can do. We really do need better management practices and better federal funding.

This.

Greenmonkey, other posters in this thread - including supporters of hunting - have been far more reasonable and realistic in their arguments. I have no intention of debating with someone who is going to stamp their feet and say "hunters are the great conservationists" while simultaneously saying things like "if a few more deer will please them then give it to them" and making not one but two remarks emphasizing the importance of taking trophies. And your stubborn insistence that agriculture IS the cause of deer overpopulation despite literally anyone with an ecology background being able to state that deer overpopulation is caused by multiple factors (like pretty much everything in nature) tells me that you aren't even willing to concede with reasonable debate points.

I donate to & support conservation efforts (which DO exist outside of hunting organizations), patronize my state and federal parks, rehabilitated wildlife for eight years, and volunteered a number of times to assist state wildlife agencies in various conservation efforts ranging from invasive plant control to population counts. I really don't want to hear this smug arrogance suggesting that hunters are the only conservationists who actually do anything - that kind of devisive atitude is completely counterproductive to ANYONE who enjoys the outdoors and wants to see it preserved and protected.

 

[codykrr]

Well, if we need to decrease doe's then why doesnt the states(like Missouri) offer more doe tags?

The upper half of the state does, while the southern half does now. Also why dont we extend the hunting seasons. heck gun season is a mere 10 days...archery is a couple months but less successfull.

I myself do not have a problem with culling doe's. Id rather eat one of those than a tough buck.

I honestly couldnt tell you the first thing about deer management. I know missouri is overpopulated. how bad...I couldnt tell you.

I will say though, that our turkey population is seeming to level out. In the 80's and early 90's Missouri was know for having TONS of 27 to 30# birds. Now there getting a little smaller, and the population is staying around the same year after year.

good post..but I think hunters could be more of a help if it wasnt for the anti hunting movement.

 

[zonbonzovi]

He was holding a bloody knife while looking for a buck he shot? That doesn't sound right.

I should have specified- he was bow hunting. As for the bloody knife, my guess is that he downed the animal, went to put it out of its' misery with the knife and it bolted, finally collapsing in my yard.

 

[Bigboy]

I should have specified- he was bow hunting. As for the bloody knife, my guess is that he downed the animal, went to put it out of its' misery with the knife and it bolted, finally collapsing in my yard.

Hmm, did you speak with him? I'm a bowhunter myself. Sounds to me like he might have just finished field dressing the animal and was coming back from depositing the entrails deep in the woods instead of your yard before taking the deer back to his truck or car. Did you talk to him about it to see what was up?

 

[zonbonzovi]

Hmm, did you speak with him? I'm a bowhunter myself. Sounds to me like he might have just finished field dressing the animal and was coming back from depositing the entrails deep in the woods instead of your yard before taking the deer back to his truck or car. Did you talk to him about it to see what was up?

The battle between the neighbors, the hunter & my wife had just erupted by the time I came on the scene, so gathering details rationally was out. He was def. seen w/ the bloody knife before getting to the animal to field dress, en route from a neighboring property. I was more upset about him showing up armed and unannounced(common courtesy if you're retrieving a downed animal), although I'm still less than happy about folks hunting in what is clearly a residential area.

Just so there's no confusion- I have zero problems with hunting, as long as it's done in a safe manner away from civilization.

 

[Louise E. Rothstein]

Wildlife Managementeer

Dear Bigboy,

"Bloody Knife" was probably trying to kill a wounded deer with his hunting knife when the dying-but not immobilized-deer managed to move as far as a neighboring property...after probably inexpert shootings AND stabbings...

Inexpert "hunters" do make a mess.

No matter what species they may belong to it is all the same.

Inexpert "hunters" do make a mess.

---------- Post added at 10:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 PM ----------

Poachers are not alike- closer inspection of poaching techniques reveals most contradictory combinations of "sloppy slaughterbugs" and "expert hunters."

The latter COULD control problem populations effectively if they would agree to move (or to permit themselves to be moved) from areas where the "extra" animals are already gone to areas where there are "extra" animals now.

Perhaps the state of Texas is doing something very similar.

You may have heard that they permit "wild hog hunting" all year.

You may not have heard that "wild hog hunting" in Texas proceeds without bag limits,gender exclusions,or legal size limits.

They permit certain "hunters" to market these animals:
like the (highly destructive) "market hunters" of yesteryear
-AND like poachers today...

-but under somewhat more supervision.

 

[kingfarvito]

Removal of apex predators are not the cause of deer overpopulations. Agriculture and suburbs are the problems. Every section of corn has a 640 acre food plot on it that provides food and cover. Add a creek and deer don't have to leave.

The deer don't have to leave because of a lack of predators. Ungulates are destroying our riparian areas because people don't want to deal with wolves or grizzlies.

 

[Tim Benzedrine]

This thread has quieted down a bit, but I noticed one contributing factor in regard to deer over population being overlooked: access to land is becoming more and more limited. Many people post their land for A)safety concerns,B) in response to unfortunate incidents involving hunters who don't respect property, C) to reserve their property for friends and family, and D)Because they are anti-hunting.
All of these are arguably legitimate reasons to close or limit access to your property,(Though C&D are kind of questionable, IMO) but I believe it has helped the population explosion in many places. When thousands of acres are for all intents and purposes wildlife preserves with no predators, the result is inevitable.