Why so many males?

[Stylopidae]

"Please avoid posting threads/posts that are blatantly confrontational, antagonistic, or belligerent. All it will accomplish is getting people to respond to you in the same manner and that's not necessary nor appreciated."

And

"Absolutely NO flaming, deliberate personal attacks, or excessively antagonizing posts!"

You do realize those parts of the rules also apply to the person who I was responding to, right?

TTstinger is basically calling out the dealers and basically saying they're responsible for the biology of the animals they sell.

Not only that, but he's also implying that most of the bigtime dealers are only here to rip people off.

Report my posts if you think I deserve it, I don't care. What TTstinger is doing is completely unwarranted and is only out of sheer ignorance of exactly how much work these dealers go through. I'm only sticking up for anyone who sells a large amount of stock.

To report my post, click this button:

. You will find it in the lower left hand corner of my post.

My choice in quoting Code_Monkey or Go Terps is no reason for you to assume that I haven't read your posts. You also misunderstand me, sir; I have not called anyone out. Till now.

However, by not quoting the answers to the questions I wrote (which built on the things Chip and Eric said earlier that you did choose to quote) you're implying that all I'm doing is attacking TTstinger, which is not true. I have answered the questions in the thread.

I've also explained the rationale behind my anger and have also explained why those accusations against the dealers are completely unfounded and also how those accusations can hurt the community as a whole.

There have been people on here who got ripped off by members on their first few sales and decided this entire site was full of scam artists and left the hobby because of thier bad experience. By having the dealers on the boards and also having the honest review system, this is something we can avoid.

If people don't trust the dealers who are advertised and endorsed by arachnoboards, they may as well not trust anyone else. Falsely accusing these innocent dealers of ripping people off hurts the community far more than me being mean to the person who's falsely accusing people.

To quote someone, use this button:

. You'll find it in the lower right hand corner of my post.

 

[TTstinger]

You do realize those parts of the rules also apply to the person who I was responding to, right?

I was in no way attacking anyone, If I had been like you say I would have given the names of the dealers who have done the things you are so sure they have not...

TTstinger is basically calling out the dealers and basically saying they're responsible for the biology of the animals they sell.

I never said anything about T ratio's I speak about DEALERS.... if you didn't get that here. DEALERS............. (PERIOD)

Not only that, but he's also implying that most of the bigtime dealers are only here to rip people off.

I never implyed that is all they do, but pointed out the fact that they do, do it. Since this post I have had a number of e-mails confirming this With people telling me of dealers who have done them the same. But I guess because I won't put details or give names of those who e-mailed me I am invalidated.
But you have to realize many are scared to come forward with things like this as they would be run off from dealers. I don't care I don't buy from dealers any more which is why I will say the truth. By the way you got any
T. blondi's for sale?

Report my posts if you think I deserve it, I don't care. What TTstinger is doing is completely unwarranted and is only out of sheer ignorance. I'm only sticking up for anyone who sells a large amount of stock.

So no one should have said anything about enron. That was just a mistake as well wasn't it. I understand mistakes happen but when it's often, it often not be mistakes in my estimation.

cheers

 

[Stylopidae]

I was in no way attacking anyone, If I had been like you say I would have given the names of the dealers who have done the things you are so sure they have not...


I never said anything about T ratio's I speak about DEALERS.... if you didn't get that here. DEALERS............. (PERIOD)

I never implyed that is all they do, but pointed out the fact that they do, do it. Since this post I have had a number of e-mails confirming this With people telling me of dealers who have done them the same. But I guess because I won't put details or give names of those who e-mailed me I am invalidated.
But you have to realize many are scared to come forward with things like this as they would be run off from dealers. I don't care I don't buy from dealers any more which is why I will say the truth. By the way you got any
T. blondi's for sale?

So no one should have said anything about enron. That was just a mistake as well wasn't it. I understand mistakes happen but when it's often, it often not be mistakes in my estimation.

cheers

Maybe I have been a bit harsh on you. Sometimes wires get crossed and things misinterpreted and I think that's exactly what's happening.. Send me a PM and we can talk details in private because I think I know who you're talking about now that I've had time to think about it.

Actually, I just sent you a PM with my apology. Reply and we'll talk.

 

[Botar]

I always like this topic as people often ask me for sexed stock and I always tell them they are unsexed. I don't care if they are 4" and listed as unsexed... they are unsexed. I have over 10,000 tarantulas in stock and have entire bins of 4" or more set aside to cull out males for breeding... they are not sexed until they mature. I simply don't have the time to do so... period.

Before anyone goes accusing any dealer of dumping off males, take a look at their pricelist. If they aren't offering guaranteed females of anything under 5", they aren't sexing them.

This argument is what prompted me to offer the whole "internship" thing. I've had people come stay with me and work their butts off. I still try to steal a little time every now and then to watch a DVD or go for a ride on my Harley, but sexing a bin of spiderlings in what little spare time I'm able to scrounge isn't anything I'd be interested in doing.

I had to make a business decision a long time ago to go with a wider selection and deep inventory, or keep it small and sex the stock. If you want guaranteed females, you'll pay more. Otherwise the dealer is cutting their own throat for no good reason.

I spent the entire day today prepping and packing shipments. I made it to DHL 5 minutes before they closed. When I pull the vials to fill the orders, they are all pulled at once from individual bins and placed in a large bin to be taken to the packing tables. At no point in time is there an opportunity to sex them. I check to make sure they are alive and well and then they are rehoused for shipping. Although I can't speak for anyone other than myself, I doubt any full time dealer has the time or opportunity to sex small stock. I know many sex stock more than I do, but that is their decision to do so.

I guess that's my $0.02 worth... which cost me a great deal of time that I really didn't have to spend.

Botar

 

[Brian S]

I know one of the largest dealers in the US quite well. I have been to his house, traveled with him and will be traveling again in a few days with him. I can guarantee that he does not sex out his spiderlings. He does NOT have time to do that. He can barely keep up with all he has to feed. You all probably know who I am talking about and what I say is true, I promise you that.

 

[TTstinger]

I always like this topic as people often ask me for sexed stock and I always tell them they are unsexed. I don't care if they are 4" and listed as unsexed... they are unsexed. I have over 10,000 tarantulas in stock and have entire bins of 4" or more set aside to cull out males for breeding... they are not sexed until they mature. I simply don't have the time to do so... period.

Before anyone goes accusing any dealer of dumping off males, take a look at their pricelist. If they aren't offering guaranteed females of anything under 5", they aren't sexing them.

This argument is what prompted me to offer the whole "internship" thing. I've had people come stay with me and work their butts off. I still try to steal a little time every now and then to watch a DVD or go for a ride on my Harley, but sexing a bin of spiderlings in what little spare time I'm able to scrounge isn't anything I'd be interested in doing.

I had to make a business decision a long time ago to go with a wider selection and deep inventory, or keep it small and sex the stock. If you want guaranteed females, you'll pay more. Otherwise the dealer is cutting their own throat for no good reason.

I spent the entire day today prepping and packing shipments. I made it to DHL 5 minutes before they closed. When I pull the vials to fill the orders, they are all pulled at once from individual bins and placed in a large bin to be taken to the packing tables. At no point in time is there an opportunity to sex them. I check to make sure they are alive and well and then they are rehoused for shipping. Although I can't speak for anyone other than myself, I doubt any full time dealer has the time or opportunity to sex small stock. I know many sex stock more than I do, but that is their decision to do so.

I guess that's my $0.02 worth... which cost me a great deal of time that I really didn't have to spend.

Botar

First off I would like to say thank you for adding your 2 cents and it has been you that I have looked up too since I got into this scene. And I think you can confirm this as I have e-mailed you many times asking for advice. That is why I wear my Botar shirts proudly, given I have only purchased from you once a few years back.

Anywho enough with the ass kissing. I knew for well when I posted my first reply in this thread I would get all kinds of grief and most likely it would follow me. I can handle that, but I stick to my guns when I say I know dealers practice this. But as I stated before I will not name names, nor point fingers. That is not my place nor will it be. But it is my moral belief that I should point out bad things that are happening and to make people aware and remind people that not everyone is honest.

This has happened to me more than once and I busted them and I confronted them they tried to make things right. I will never do bizz with them again...

But I ask you to be fair and admit that this has and does go on, to what extent is unseen. But then again you pretty much already did. "I know many sex stock more than I do, but that is their decision to do so".

As for anyone who might think to BUY from Botar DO IT I have been happy with what I got from him not mention the great advice he has to offer.
I give Botar 2 thumbs up 1 for great service and 2 for taking 2sec to offer his thoughts on this post

Thanks Botar

 

[Talkenlate04]

I feel your pain, I have bought 37 un sexed Ts from one person and every single one of them were male. What do you think the odds of that are? 1000 to 1? 2000 to 1? Maybe more? Plus they were not all the same species. So ether I am really unlucky or something is up.
I do believe the bigger dealers just dont have the time to mess with sexing. When they have the inventory they do, I can see how time just would not permit sexing every T.
But I do think there might be some people out there that do sex at an early age to get the most of their stock. But I think if they are doing that, (and I have no proof other then my numbers) I cant accuse anyone.
But I never got how you could sell a 4-5" Klaasi as unsexed. Would you not feel the slightest bit bad about sending something that takes two seconds to sex?

 

[TarantulaLV]

Yeah, I saw that one. It helped me to formulate my if-ish opinion. The thing is, if the method isn't 100%, you may as well flip a coin, and from everything that I've read that method isn't 100%.

It's not my intent to be snarky, but I am curious. Can you sex using coloration on a pokie? And if so, how often are you correct?

Obviously there are exceptions but the method is quite reliable. As I have indicated previously those with a populaton for comparison who take the time to look at the differences will notice differences early on. That is why some people have reports of buying 15 or so Pokies from the same person and they are all male. Hmmmm makes you wonder. I will not start the odds discussion again but I will not get tales 15 times ever in a row if I flip a coin.

 

[stonemantis]

I just came across this thread and heres my 2 cents:

From a breeder/dealer's point of view:

I have kept, raised, bred, and etc... thousands of species of tarantulas and have been asked what sex they are. I respond with "Sex is unknown unless marked otherwise" because I don't have the time to sex every tarantula I have for sale.

There have been times where I have accurately sexed females and males (when I have the time to do so) and I usually keep the males and sell the extra females for more money than the unsexed ones of equal or lesser size.

I can't speak for all dealers but, most the reputable ones I know will not sell males (Unless the customer is looking specifically for one) because they don't live as long as the females and would go to waist if they where not being used for breeding. On occasion they sell the females not being used for breeding but, most of the time the stock they sell is unsexed.

Which brings up the following phrase: "A guarantee is only as good as the person who writes it."

Again this is my 2 cents and nothing more

Brian

 

[TarantulaLV]

But I never got how you could sell a 4-5" Klaasi as unsexed. Would you not feel the slightest bit bad about sending something that takes two seconds to sex?

This is a very real issue and one that is quite valid! Brachypelma five inches? Unsexed!? Are you serious!!

 

[TarantulaLV]

Which brings up the following phrase: "A guarantee is only as good as the person who writes it."
Brian

:clap: :clap:

 

[Paramite]

All my spiders which I have bought as juveniles, have been males. Of course it may be just bad luck, but who knows. These days I only buy slings or guaranteed females.

 

[TTstinger]

I would almost say put the issue to rest. As no dealer who is doing this would ever admit to it. So it is just going to be one of those thing to be aware of and take your chances, being that is what everyone is claiming it to be "chance". or better put flip of the 2 sided coin.

 

[harrypei]

I feel your pain, I have bought 37 un sexed Ts from one person and every single one of them were male. What do you think the odds of that are? 1000 to 1? 2000 to 1? Maybe more? Plus they were not all the same species. So ether I am really unlucky or something is up.
I do believe the bigger dealers just dont have the time to mess with sexing. When they have the inventory they do, I can see how time just would not permit sexing every T.
But I do think there might be some people out there that do sex at an early age to get the most of their stock. But I think if they are doing that, (and I have no proof other then my numbers) I cant accuse anyone.
But I never got how you could sell a 4-5" Klaasi as unsexed. Would you not feel the slightest bit bad about sending something that takes two seconds to sex?

assuming it's a 50/50 chance for getting a male/female, the random chance of all of them being male is 1/137438953472

i suggest you go buy the lottery...or the negative lottery, if you know wat i mean...

 

[Talkenlate04]

assuming it's a 50/50 chance for getting a male/female, the random chance of all of them being male is 1/137438953472

i suggest you go buy the lottery...or the negative lottery, if you know wat i mean...

So your saying I have better odds of getting hit by lightning.

 

[syndicate]

after reading this thread one thought came to mind here.with alot of species males tend to grow faster than females.now when going to a show or store to buy a new spider i bet alot of people when choosing will pick out the biggest looking spiders to buy.ive seen this done before and i think that could possibly account for a large number of males in your collection.
while not on topic i wonder if male/female ratio from an eggsac can be caused by dif temperatures and conditions the eggcase is kept at prior to hatching.

 

[jen650s]

Although not a dealer or breeder, the first 6 slings I raised to adulthood all turned out to be males. When I bought the first 2 they were too small to be sexed at ~3/4". When the breeder I got them from found out and found out that I had kept records about them throughout their lives he traded me back for 4 more slings which also turned out to be male. Which he then traded me for 1 adult female and 1 juvenile guaranteed female. He was very interested in having those males back to breed and more than fair in dealing with me. Is it poor odds to have 6 slings become males...maybe. However, at least in my case the breeder was clearly much more interested in keeping the males for himself while I was interested in a fascinating pet (or 26 ).

Everyone I have dealt with on these boards has treated me more than fairly whether dealer or enthusiast and I truely appreciate that aspect of this community. And while I am not a pollyana or blind to the fact that there are surely some rotters amidst all the honest folks here most of the complaints I have seen here can be attributed to lack of communication between the parties before the post.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents and I'd like to thank the breeders and dealers who make it possible for all of the variety we see in the hobby today as compared to just a few years ago.
---Jen

 

[Talkenlate04]

after reading this thread one thought came to mind here.with alot of species males tend to grow faster than females.now when going to a show or store to buy a new spider i bet alot of people when choosing will pick out the biggest looking spiders to buy.ive seen this done before and i think that could possibly account for a large number of males in your collection.
while not on topic i wonder if male/female ratio from an eggsac can be caused by dif temperatures and conditions the eggcase is kept at prior to hatching.

All very great points! :clap:
I myself have seen much the same buying habit. People tend to pick out the biggest stock. And if they are all from the same clutch, or clutches that were close together odds are those bigger boys are the boys. Maybe I should start picking out the runts.

 

[syndicate]

All very great points! :clap:
I myself have seen much the same buying habit. People tend to pick out the biggest stock. And if they are all from the same clutch, or clutches that were close together odds are those bigger boys are the boys. Maybe I should start picking out the runts.

yeah often times i will actually pick the smaller slings if possible.or get one small and a large to better chances of having a pair.hard to tell the outcome tho

 

[julesaussies]

i don't know if i've just been lucky or what and don't want to jinx that luck. However, it seems like literally all but one of my T's has molted out female, whether i got them as slings or definitely large enough to sex if the seller had even glanced at the molt. i've bought almost all my T's from people here on the boards and all unsexed have been females except for one male, as well as, all guaranteed females confirmed females after molting in my care. i did purchase one B. smithi advertised as a 5" female but it was clearly a male, though not mature yet. Had it not been a Brachy don't know that i would have known on sight. However, i explained it to the small collector who i honestly don't think knew the difference and i bought him anyway!

Now that i've said that, watch my luck change. i've got many, many small slings from people i've come to know here that i believe will be random regardless what sex they turn out. That's the main reason i buy a handful of each species i buy. i think it's really, really weird to get all males out of 15 slings but when you buy them at 2nd instar i don't really think somebody could sell you one sex or the other even if they wanted to.