What small mammal as child's first pet?

[Kirsten]

Check craigslist.

 

[ametan]

I assure you I take good care of all of my animals. The line about just keeping the goldfish was a joke (and yes, there is more than one in the tank; fish is both singular and plural). I do think $150 is a lot for a cage. Seems most things for pets these days are becoming exorbitant. So I'm checking craigslist and ebay regularly.

 

[pouchedrat]

Well I'm a weird person who goes all out on cages. My guys had Ferret nations after all. I really do suggest a martin's though for practical cages. www.martinscages.com
Just be sure to get powder coated, since anything galvanized rusts bad, and anything vinyl coated gets chewed off.. Craigslist or ebay works well with finding decent used and new cages.

http://www.rattycorner.com/odds/calc.shtml That's the rat cage calculator, it'll help with determining the right size for 2 rats. females are smaller but more rambunctious. Males are larger, but lazy-ass things.

the R-680 is OK for 3 rats. I have one right now for 3 YOUNG females (this was always my hospital/travel/lone male buck cage until recently). I used to have two R-699's, until I switched over to the 2 ferret nation 142's, which i think are nicer looking and easier to clean and keep up with. But those two are now part of a giant ferret nation 6-tier thing for my prairie dogs, so.. yeah, i'm actually in the market for a new cage as well soon.

Petsmart sometimes sells cheap guinea pig cages that can be converted for rats.
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753290 can hold up to 4 rats.
when looking, also look for cage bar spacing. ADULT rats can get away with 1" bar spacing (except for small females), but babies will need 1/2" bar spacing. Also with cheap guinea pig cages, you can modify them with hammocks, toys, extra levels, etc. Just don't get ones with wire bottoms! I think the cheap guinea pig cage I have right now I bought at Petsmart for 40 dollars total? It can house two small, young rats easily. I don't see the specific cage online, but I know I've seen them in three different Petsmarts in two different states.

As far as toy expenses goes, a LOT of us will shop around at places like the dollar store for cheap toys. You would be surprised what you can find there sometimes. Baby toys can be used, cat toys, jingle balls, dog toys, HUMAN toys, some dollar stores even carry bird toys that you can use for them. Also hammocks aren't very expensive if you make them yourself. If you sew, just buy fleece and fabric scraps (avoid towel material) from jo-ann's, the remnants stuff is 50% off, and sometimes it's an additional 50% off of THAT price, so you can get a decent amount of fleece for cheap. Sew up squares, attach with whatever you like (I actually use safety pins, don't even bother with anything I want to keep. that way I can just toss them when they get too ratty and torn up and aren't worth washing anymore). If that doesn't work, heck, just cut square pieces of fabric and hang them up that way. It won't be pretty, but it's practical and they honestly don't care that much.


IF those cages and such are still too expensive, you can BUILD an amazing, HUGE cage for a fraction of the cost!! Just use vinyl coated (I don't like it, it doesn't last long, but powder coated is hard to get ahold of unless you know someone) 1/2" by 1" wire hardware cloth from Home Depot (found outdoors section, usually next to chicken wire), some wire cutters, some electrical zip ties to hold it together, and a plastic storage bin (usually found in target cheap, go with the low ones for under the bed, etc) for a base, and then go to town with building and creating your own cage. I've done this MANY, many times! I just enjoy the looks of the ferret nation cages right now, lol, and think they look nicer since they're right next to my front door.

 

[Rex Libris]

I've never had the rust problem. But I do live in a very dry climate. You must dry such cages after cleaning.

 

[pouchedrat]

We have very humid weather and hard water, which ruins everything here. I've always had issues with rusting or corroding with galvanized wire, especially the corners they decide to urinate the most in. I do spot cleaning daily and have always completely washed the cages in the shower weekly, but it still would.

Galvanized also soaks up odor pretty bad, and there's rumors it can be harmful if chewed on, especially as the zinc rusts (it gets that powdery white to it). I don't know how much truth there is to that, but better safe than sorry I believe.

 

[Bigboy]

Not sure if you've made your decision yet but I have to throw in my vote for rats. They are simply delightful.

 

[ametan]

Thanks so much for the info, pouchedrat! Very helpful indeed.

I think I just like the idea of getting a bargain and of making things yourself. I'm a huge handmade & secondhand supporter. I had a gigantic Ferret Nation when my ferrets were still around. They are pretty.

 

[gromgrom]

Rats all the way. Hands-down the best rodent, in my opinion. Get it small, handle it often.

i hate to agree with joe in every topic, but this is it. rats are amazing pets. they dont bite and get nippy like mice. get a good, cute, friendly one when its young. we have a rescue who urinates and poops on you when you hold it, and one is unsocial, while the other LOVES attention and to play with people

barring that, a dog, cat, or ferrett.

 

[pouchedrat]

Thanks so much for the info, pouchedrat! Very helpful indeed.

I think I just like the idea of getting a bargain and of making things yourself. I'm a huge handmade & secondhand supporter. I had a gigantic Ferret Nation when my ferrets were still around. They are pretty.

Some people even buy old bookcases, TV cabinets, and other things from yard sales and convert them into cages. The only issue with that is while it LOOKS nice, if it's not properly sealed inside, that urine is eventually going to soak into the wood and REEK!
http://bayimages.net/view-photos/rat-cage-made-from-bookcase-4891.html

Honestly do a google search for "homemade rat cage" and you'll find hundreds of ideas, tips, even instructions on how to build your own! Some are absolutely stunning while others are cheap but practical, yet still work wonderfully!

 

[LeilaNami]

Someone in here said the rat lifespan is only 2 to 2.5 years and 3 if your lucky. I wholeheartedly disagree. If you feed them right, keep their cage clean, and you don't run into the tumor/cancer issue your rats could live a year or two longer. I had two rats that lived to be 5 years old and two more that lived to be 4 years. All of those were female. In experience, the biggest killers of pet rats are tumors/cancer and respiratory infections.

I do not like using wood shavings (aspen) for these guys. It doesn't absorb as well as the paper products that are marketed. Carefresh and SoftSorbent are better beddings IMHO. I used SoftSorbent for all my babies because I find it easier to clean and slightly cheaper than Carefresh.

 

[pouchedrat]

I've been a member of a large forum filled with rat enthusiasts since it's beginnings (and have known the moderator for 11 years), have been a rat person for 16 years now as well. I have never heard of rats living 5 years except under Extremely rare circumstances. The world's oldest rat was 7 years, and was a laboratory rat. Prior to that, the oldest rat on record was only 5 years old, and that definitely was NOT the standard.

I've known breeders with long lived rats, but they average a bit over 3 years of age and they breed specifically with longevity and health in mind (wasn't there a breeder in Australia who's rats average 4?). One person on the boards had a rat who was 4+ but was DEFINITELY showing signs of aging, hind leg paralysis, and muscle degeneration. Those with rats who resulted from a wild rat crossing (such as a female who escaped, and was impregnated with a wild norway rat) have reported fewer health problems, and longer lifespans in the half-wild offspring, but it's still only 3 - 4 years of age. My longest lived rat was 3 1/2 years as confirmed by vet records, but I had another who I SWEAR was older, but since i adopted her as an adult, and she lived for over 3 years under my care afterwards, I have no way of saying how old she in fact was by her death. Sometimes years sort of run into each other, so usually vet records help out with that.

I would still say the average is 2-3 years lifespan. That's what you're going to run into even with the most optimal caging, bedding (many of us don't even USE bedding, we use fabric that we shake out daily and wash in the washer without detergent), diet (many of us, once again, make our own food FROM SCRATCH or use Harlan Teklad or our own dry mixes since most food marketed for rats is rubbish), and veterinary care you can possibly provide. We usually spay our females to prevent mammary tumors and ovarian cysts from forming, we neuter our males, we take them in for regular checkups, etc.

The lifespan I still say is 2-3 years. Anything over 3 and you're VERY lucky. Just because a human can live 122 years, doesn't mean they all do.

http://www.rattycorner.com/survey/ -rat age survey. They are currently conducting a new one which includes spayed/neutered rats. The previous survey is up from 2005. There have been other rat lifespan surveys out there as well, which included how people kept them, whether they gave them bottled or tap water, how they were fed, etc, and of course their age at death. There are actually a ton of them, even country based. So far it seems Australia has the longest lived pet rats.

 

[LeilaNami]

I've been a member of a large forum filled with rat enthusiasts since it's beginnings (and have known the moderator for 11 years), have been a rat person for 16 years now as well. I have never heard of rats living 5 years except under Extremely rare circumstances. The world's oldest rat was 7 years, and was a laboratory rat. Prior to that, the oldest rat on record was only 5 years old, and that definitely was NOT the standard.

I've known breeders with long lived rats, but they average a bit over 3 years of age and they breed specifically with longevity and health in mind (wasn't there a breeder in Australia who's rats average 4?). One person on the boards had a rat who was 4+ but was DEFINITELY showing signs of aging, hind leg paralysis, and muscle degeneration. Those with rats who resulted from a wild rat crossing (such as a female who escaped, and was impregnated with a wild norway rat) have reported fewer health problems, and longer lifespans in the half-wild offspring, but it's still only 3 - 4 years of age. My longest lived rat was 3 1/2 years as confirmed by vet records, but I had another who I SWEAR was older, but since i adopted her as an adult, and she lived for over 3 years under my care afterwards, I have no way of saying how old she in fact was by her death. Sometimes years sort of run into each other, so usually vet records help out with that.

I would still say the average is 2-3 years lifespan. That's what you're going to run into even with the most optimal caging, bedding (many of us don't even USE bedding, we use fabric that we shake out daily and wash in the washer without detergent), diet (many of us, once again, make our own food FROM SCRATCH or use Harlan Teklad or our own dry mixes since most food marketed for rats is rubbish), and veterinary care you can possibly provide. We usually spay our females to prevent mammary tumors and ovarian cysts from forming, we neuter our males, we take them in for regular checkups, etc.

The lifespan I still say is 2-3 years. Anything over 3 and you're VERY lucky. Just because a human can live 122 years, doesn't mean they all do.

http://www.rattycorner.com/survey/ -rat age survey. They are currently conducting a new one which includes spayed/neutered rats. The previous survey is up from 2005. There have been other rat lifespan surveys out there as well, which included how people kept them, whether they gave them bottled or tap water, how they were fed, etc, and of course their age at death. There are actually a ton of them, even country based. So far it seems Australia has the longest lived pet rats.

I'm not saying 5 years is someone everyone can hope to achieve but I still maintain that two years is conservative for the lifespan of a rat. The only one of my rats that lived that short of a life was due to a chronic respiratory infection/whatever the heck it was that a doctor couldn't identify and antibiotics had no effect and was most definitely due to inbreeding as he was feeder rat from a Petco. That's great that you have all that experience and the mod connections, and I may not be quite that many years yet but my boyfriend does and had been a breeder of pet rats for quite some time. Out of our combined experience, I maintain three is average and two is a sad conservative estimate of the life span of a feeder rat or one that unfortunately gets sick. Out of the four rats I had mentioned, only one had developed a mammary tumor. All the others were fine disease wise and active till the day they died. One was a little chubby (understatement) but that was it. I never had her checked but she was fat the day I got her and I couldn't get any weight off her for anything. She still lived to be five though. Maybe I've been lucky with my feeder rats (and they all were save the hairless) and they have some miracle-longevity gene or something but I base my opinion on personal experience.

 

[Cirith Ungol]

After not having looked at this thread for about two years I'll come with a new suggestion.

You want something caged, with a lock and that can't be harmed by your child.

Get a cat.

Build a cage with ½in steel bars, a big padlock, and then hope that the leopard cub doesn't get out because it's gonna be the night stalker!

Or get a beaver. Put it in the bathtub.

Or maybe get rats. A pair, I think they say either male and female or two females. Build the cage yourself maybe?

 

[ametan]

After not having looked at this thread for about two years I'll come with a new suggestion.

You want something caged, with a lock and that can't be harmed by your child.

Get a cat.

Build a cage with ½in steel bars, a big padlock, and then hope that the leopard cub doesn't get out because it's gonna be the night stalker!

Or get a beaver. Put it in the bathtub.

Or maybe get rats. A pair, I think they say either male and female or two females. Build the cage yourself maybe?

Hmmmm.... I like the beaver idea, although I'd have to work on creating an outdoor bathtub for human use as our bathtub would then be the beaver's territory. Do you think I would need to provide the beaver with downed lumber? And if so, how much and would I have to bake it to remove pests?

 

[Cirith Ungol]

Hmmmm.... I like the beaver idea, although I'd have to work on creating an outdoor bathtub for human use as our bathtub would then be the beaver's territory. Do you think I would need to provide the beaver with downed lumber? And if so, how much and would I have to bake it to remove pests?

Yes, the beaver is very susceptible to lingering polyporous bracket fungi so sterilisation is very important with every piece of wood, preferably you get an autoclave. The wood should not be too hard (birch is a no go for example, so would oak) as the beaver will not work with that material. You might also need to flood the bathroom in case the beaver spontaneously multiplies, which they are known to do from time to time, as just like their relatives the snails are they twin sexed and can make babies when ever they get bored. Be sure to also give it a little pocket knife for more intricate wood working as mental stimulation is very important. A colour TV and a mini-bar might also help.

For your situation, just get a garden hose and you'll be able to keep yourself clean enough.