What is the most venomous spider in the trade?

The Snark

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Never allow yourself to become complacent (even with non-medically significant species). Complacency is when you, everyone around you, and the entire hobby is at risk.
Steve Irwin certainly gave the world a sterling example of that one and you'd be very hard pressed to find a more cautious capable animal handler. Just check his videos that show the behind the scenes safety precautions they took.
He got complacent and got done in by the 'chicken of the sea'. Sheesh.
 

ReignofInvertebrates

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Definitely the most dangerous. The Brazilian wandering spider I know is the most venomous spider in the world
Actually, in LD50 (lethal dose), I believe Atrax are more venomous than Phoneutria, but antivenin has prevented death well. Phoneutria tend to dry bite more often or regulate venom input so I've heard.
 

The Snark

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Steve Irwin mentioned something to that effect. He demonstrated Atrax literally drooling venom uncontrollably. On the other hand they apparently had a beast of a time getting sufficient quantities of venom from lab kept phoneutria.
 

Chris LXXIX

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Actually, in LD50 (lethal dose), I believe Atrax are more venomous than Phoneutria, but antivenin has prevented death well. Phoneutria tend to dry bite more often or regulate venom input so I've heard.
1.0 especially, they are stronger than 0.1
 

nieksluys

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Phoneutria are definitely not the most venomous, they pack a punch, yes, but a spider that causes (only counting the documented) a couple of deaths for every several hundred bite cases, of wich only a couple needed/got antivenom treatment, i wouldn't call them the most venomous spider.
Sicarius lack bite reports to surely tell how venomous they are, i believe they tested the venom on rabbits, but the effects were severe. Also not overlooking the fact that they are in the same family as Loxosceles.
Loxosceles laeta has a lot more data regarding the strenght and effects of their venom, definitely dangerous.
Hadronyche sp. (the tree-funnelweb) are said to be very venomous and dangerous because they occur in an area were it's difficult to get antivenom in time.
I believe Atrax are very venomous as well, (well, they are) but i'm not particularly interested in the venom as i'm not that interested in the genus itself, it's only mediahype that surrounds the species.


Overall i can't be bothered with venom in general, i keep all my spiders in a way that i don't get bit by anyone of them, venom is only a factor that determines the safety precautions you should take and the preparations.
although i will say this; i would be much less worried when a Phoneutria bit me then a Latrodectus, their venom will make you sick as a dog for weeks, making me unable to work and earn money and live up to my responsibilities as an adult, there's a lot more consequenses and risks than just suffering from the venom itself.

regardless it's good to have safetyprotocols on hand and to inform the neighbourhood about the species you're keeping, have a clean and organized escape-proof room and, most of all, have a little bit of common sense and intelligence, something a small percentage of people (in particular in the demographic that's attracted to venomous species) sadly, lacks.
But nowadays everyone and their mother can buy Phoneutria on an online store (sad but true, a german store does that...). tell me, how the hell are you going to check what people buy it?
How is that store going to be sure that their Phoneutria and Latrodectus don't fall in the hands of the wrong person?

I could be bored and decide to check the site and see that i can buy a couple of Latrodectus, Loxosceles, and, oh boy! some Phoneutria for just 9,- a piece! aren't those the spiders everyone is raving on about and comparing with Atrax robustus on the internet? Damn, i'll just buy them.
people are just a couple of clicks and 50 euros away from having a fairly decent venomous collection, while they maybe haven't had any experience with invertebrates (or animals in general) whatsoever.

Yes, internet is nice and all, but it certainly has it's drawbacks, especially regarding the future of keeping exotic animals legally.

regards,

Niek
 

brolloks

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Damn the Sicarius hahni is creepy looking! And to think it is found in areas I could drive to with my vehicle freaks me out even more, haha.
 

Chris LXXIX

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Damn the Sicarius hahni is creepy looking! And to think it is found in areas I could drive to with my vehicle freaks me out even more, haha.
Yup, time for a old school Kalahari expedition... let's find the hidden city this time (and S.hahni, of course) :)
 

ReignofInvertebrates

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I think it's important that all online sellers at least brief ALL customers who purchase arachnids with high venom, so at least they can be told once to stay clear of bites/stings. If anything that is what will jeopardize the invertebrate hobby.
 

brolloks

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I think it's important that all online sellers at least brief ALL customers who purchase arachnids with high venom, so at least they can be told once to stay clear of bites/stings. If anything that is what will jeopardize the invertebrate hobby.
I would think that any animal whether it is an arachnid or reptile with medically important venom should only be sold to persons over the age of 18 and have them sign an indemnity form before taking ownership. But with so many private sales it will be impossible to govern I guess.
 

Chris LXXIX

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Most definitely! And make a turn at the Skeleton Coast just for good measure.
Damn man, such a great expedition that one could been. I can imagine a Black, old like hell African man, dressed like a car mechanic, a former shaman of some ancient tribe, living among what remains of those ships... after he see us (with potent Jeeps and weapons for self defence, you never know) he have a vision about an army of flies, a jackal, and then start to scream: "Omuuuulù!

:-s
 

darkness975

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inform the neighbourhood about the species you're keeping
I agree with a lot of what you said, but I do not agree with this statement. The last thing we need is nosey neighbors (or the neighbors that hate us) finding out about what we have and using it in neighbor wars and jeopardizing our entire hobby. It is sad, but we are not a society of "love thy neighbor" we are a society of "fear thy neighbor."
 

The Snark

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I agree with a lot of what you said, but I do not agree with this statement. The last thing we need is nosey neighbors (or the neighbors that hate us) finding out about what we have and using it in neighbor wars and jeopardizing our entire hobby. It is sad, but we are not a society of "love thy neighbor" we are a society of "fear thy neighbor."
Sounds like you just aren't handling your neighbors correctly. A lot of people are in that same boat. If you present the appropriate demeanor towards your neighbors, unhinged semi psychotic maniac with a penchant for sudden explosions at 06:01 for example, and the neighbor in question then becomes informed you are trying to cross breed rabid pitbulls with king cobras, said neighbor should only mutter under his or her breath, 'that's the least of my worries'.

Fulfill your social and legals obligations, those regarding whom may come into contacts with your hots and the appropriate authorities which will differ from location to location, then go on your merry way. If you keep dangerous animals correctly, your neighbors will never have any reason to know or have cause for concern what you are keeping, or need to know.

We really need @Najakeeper to write up the protocols he maintained and what the Swiss authorities required for him to keep hots.
 

darkness975

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Sounds like you just aren't handling your neighbors correctly. A lot of people are in that same boat. If you present the appropriate demeanor towards your neighbors, unhinged semi psychotic maniac with a penchant for sudden explosions at 06:01 for example, and the neighbor in question then becomes informed you are trying to cross breed rabid pitbulls with king cobras, said neighbor should only mutter under his or her breath, 'that's the least of my worries'.

Fulfill your social and legals obligations, those regarding whom may come into contacts with your hots and the appropriate authorities which will differ from location to location, then go on your merry way. If you keep dangerous animals correctly, your neighbors will never have any reason to know or have cause for concern what you are keeping, or need to know.

We really need @Najakeeper to write up the protocols he maintained and what the Swiss authorities required for him to keep hots.
If you saw what I had to work with in terms of Neighbors you would understand my point on that regard. I would write you a check for $1,000 if you were ever able to successfully get them to see reason. This part of the country is well known for being uptight and ridiculous. Must be the New York City mentality that spills over.
 

The Snark

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If you saw what I had to work with in terms of Neighbors you would
Shweety, if you saw what I dealt with as a cop and paramedic you might just go genuflect on your neighbors lawn and sing their praises to the skies: "No sir. Hitting your wife with an -empty- beer can is still considered assault."
Think of having a truly twisted and demented version of Homer Simpson as your neighbor. There are thousands like that, or much worse. MUCH worse.
Recalling one regular customer a police department had. Cited him over 100 times for pooping out of his window for the neighbors to watch.
 
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