What is the most Rare Tarantula in Captivity or available in the Hobby??

[forrestpengra]

Face it, you're not standing up for anything. You're just taking a point of view that conveniently coincides with a selfish desire to own as many species of Poecilotheria as possible. It's not saving them. No, it's supporting a practice that is helping hasten their demise. Way to go bucko.

Funny... too funny... no my challenge is not to accumulate all of these controversial animals. I already have too many tiger bones and rhino horns. Give me a break. You can't possibly think that we're better off to not have them at all on earth than to maintain a responsible captive breeding population. Here in Canada as I said earlier there were 20 CB individuals imported. All 20 are referenced and will likely be bred as well. It's not a great solution but it's a temporary one. Until legislation will protect these species nothing else will. More over, the red list specifically says their numbers are dwindling due to habitat fragmentation more so than the animal trade.

For those interested below is a link to the island in question:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...1564,79.316483&spn=0.262614,0.444603&t=h&z=12

Below is a link to the Redlist write up on them.
http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/63562/0

By the way, I don't even have one... The question wasn't what is right or wrong, it was what is the most rare.

 

[forrestpengra]

Why does every thread on Arachnoboards turn into an argument? I've been on other boards where the posters are actually civil to each other and stay on subject.

Because the topic was bastardized from what is rare to what is right or wrong. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[Exo]

Is any research being done on P. hanumavilasumica? Didn't think so. No, they are being bred and sold for profit. Awesome, they are right now going extinct and yet they are being sold for profit. Is that not messed up?

I understand that the vast majority of species have entered the hobby illegally, but they also aren't the offspring of smuggled adults from what might possibly be the smallest and most rapidly declining populations in existence.

You're right, I'm not doing anything to personally help their cause. But to think that supporting smuggling of extremely rare species by buying their direct offspring (again, for PROFIT) is helping their survival is idiotic. Again, if they're alive in captivity but extinct in the wild, what good does it do? Their beauty, their contributions to nature, are only good if they exist in their natural populations. Face it, you're not standing up for anything. You're just taking a point of view that conveniently coincides with a selfish desire to own as many species of Poecilotheria as possible. It's not saving them. No, it's supporting a practice that is helping hasten their demise. Way to go bucko.

They will go extinct whether we buy them or not due to habitat loss, do you suggest that we let them completely disappear from existance due to moral principle?

BTW, the human race cares about nothing but profit, that's just the way it is and there's no way around it. If that bothers you so much then maybe you should tell the land developers to stop[ cutting down Pokie habitat in the first place.

 

[sharpfang]

I think it should be celebrated that there are CB slings of this highly threatened species. I'd be curious to hear how you feel about P. metallica as they too are critically threatened, but everyone and their brother have them. How about species listed on CITES, as in all Brachypelma, do you boycott those too.

Without human intervention there will be species loss. PERIOD. Geesh

I Disagree w/ your Rationel......But, Don't need 2 Insult You! U could Use a "Warning" in my Opinion

The reason for Sp. lost is mainly because of humans from the start thou..If humans weren't around, I highly believe the planet would thrive and many of the great creatures we lost due to humans would still remain..

PERFECTLY PUT!!!!!!!!!!

Really its ok for you to feel this way and to be so one sided is completely ignorant. Funny how you'd rather a species to completely not exist than to have a captive bred population still kicking around. You condemn that which you practice. If you think you are above all scruitiny look at your own collection and I'm sure you have some items which are 'questionable', we all do. Many pokies are 'threatened', Brachypelma are on CITES, etc....
Josh "Jayefbe" is Not Perfect, Neither am I......Your Attitude on this Thread...
Blatently shows everyone in Canada & the U.S.A. your Faults
Do yourself a favour and quit being a close minded self-righteous <edit>. You remind me of the bible thumpers who say, 'if god says wants it to be true so it will be'. If people who care, beyond the monetary side of the trade, as I do, to stand up and maintain a species then great. I could care less about having a T as a status symbol. I don't know any people that would actually think a smuggled/illegal/threatened species was cool. As for buying these 'smuggled' animals how are they smuggled if there is no enforcement. So what you suggest is that we just keep doing nothing and lose both species in the wild and captivity rather than keep one going for research purposes if nothing else. Way to go bucko...

Way 2 Pass the "Bucko" ....... U are looking for Trophy T's as Status Symbal,
I feel.....I would like 2 Have All these RARE Pokies also.....But, I don't "PRETEND" to be saving an Extintion from Occuring....I FEEL bad about the Armored Chameleon group, that were Taken out of Madagascar 4 me...
I did Nothing righteuos or NOBLE in attaining them and Breeding them....I essentially - Gave-them-Away 2 someone dedicated w/ species in Captivity...
However, my role in them bein' taken from Home - Is never gonna change.

Why does every thread on Arachnoboards turn into an argument? I've been on other boards where the posters are actually civil to each other and stay on subject.

Good Q: Natebugman, good question......comment appreciated :clap: and noticed.
- Jason J. Brown

 

[forrestpengra]

I Disagree w/ your Rationel......But, Don't need 2 Insult You! U could Use a "Warning" in my Opinion

PERFECTLY PUT!!!!!!!!!!

Way 2 Pass the "Bucko" ....... U are looking for Trophy T's as Status Symbal,
I feel.....I would like 2 Have All these RARE Pokies also.....But, I don't "PRETEND" to be saving an Extintion from Occuring....I FEEL bad about the Armored Chameleon group, that were Taken out of Madagascar 4 me...
I did Nothing righteuos or NOBLE in attaining them and Breeding them....I essentially - Gave-them-Away 2 someone dedicated w/ species in Captivity...
However, my role in them bein' taken from Home - Is never gonna change.

Good Q: Natebugman, good question......comment appreciated :clap: and noticed.
- Jason J. Brown

You obviously don't get it, there is no advocating for these Ts as 'trophies'. They are rare in the trade and that's all that is being argued. Somehow it was distorted into whats right or wrong by Jayfe-something or another... As for me deserving a warning, what for, are you serious? I'm not trying to play the superman of species preservation. I just think it would be rediculously stupid to just say, 'nah, they extinct in the wild, guess they shouldn't be in captivity either... Your response did nothing for this thread. Please don't respond.

 

[GiantVinegaroon]

I think it should be celebrated that there are CB slings of this highly threatened species. I'd be curious to hear how you feel about P. metallica as they too are critically threatened, but everyone and their brother have them. How about species listed on CITES, as in all Brachypelma, do you boycott those too.

Without human intervention there will be species loss. PERIOD. Geesh

I'd be curious to hear about all these people who have P. metallica, because currently it seems the number of people on this board who own the species can be counted on one hand!

 

[forrestpengra]

I'd be curious to hear about all these people who have P. metallica, because currently it seems the number of people on this board who own the species can be counted on one hand!

you're not being serious are you? They are everywhere... The expo I went to this weekend there were probably 5 or more in a communal setup each for purchase. If you want to pony up $200 for slings or $700 for MF, you'll have plenty waiting for you at your door.

 

[sharpfang]

I'll take your Future comments w/ grains of.....

Salt & Pepper then - Jason

 

[forrestpengra]

Salt & Pepper then - Jason

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Last edited by sharpfang; Today at 03:09 PM. Reason: You R the 1 throwing out Disrespect.....And I will let Others Decide 4 themselves.....I can speak if I like...FREE in America

Fantastic, nice talk. By the way I am American also.

 

[Exo]

I'd be curious to hear about all these people who have P. metallica, because currently it seems the number of people on this board who own the species can be counted on one hand!

That's only because it is hard for many people to justify spending 200 bucks or more on a sling.

 

[forrestpengra]

That's only because it is hard for many people to justify spending 200 bucks or more on a sling.

I very much agree with it... I can't spend that much. But also cost not being a direct factor in rarity it certainly plays a role. They much more rare than say a G. rosea, B. vagans, or L. parahybana. Really the more I think about it rarity really means nothing considering there are still MANY undescribed species.

 

[AzJohn]

okay here goes.

We really need to remember that species in the wild are not the same as species in captivity. A species born and bred in captivity has a purpose. That is to be sold, traded, or kept by hobbiest. They really have little to do with populations in the wild. The main threat to wild populations is not over collecting but habitat lose. If you are worried about over collection buy CB babies. That's what I do as much as possible.

Really, owning a rare CB species is not really going to hurt the wild population. So lets not get upset at people keeing "trophy pets" because they wish to make financial gains or just keep it for show. Without financial gains many species would be lost to the hobby. If it's just for show, good for them. While keeping inverts with no intention to breed does hurt the hobby in my opinion, it really has little to do with wild populations.


John

 

[jayefbe]

okay here goes.

We really need to remember that species in the wild are not the same as species in captivity. A species born and bred in captivity has a purpose. That is to be sold, traded, or kept by hobbiest. They really have little to do with populations in the wild. The main threat to wild populations is not over collecting but habitat lose. If you are worried about over collection buy CB babies. That's what I do as much as possible.

Really, owning a rare CB species is not really going to hurt the wild population. So lets not get upset at people keeing "trophy pets" because they wish to make financial gains or just keep it for show. Without financial gains many species would be lost to the hobby. If it's just for show, good for them. While keeping inverts with no intention to breed does hurt the hobby in my opinion, it really has little to do with wild populations.


John

I agree completely with your post. Most species can withstand some collection, and if limiting yourself to buying CB, there should be no detrimental impact to wild populations. However, I don't find that to be the case with P. hanumavilasumica. Smuggling of the species has occurred to the point that Indian authorities condemn the exotic pet trade. That's a noticeable impact. The species is so thoroughly endangered that any collecting is going to have a significant impact. I have no problem with keeping species in captivity, and if one happens to go extinct then it is better to have some in captivity than not. But if building CB groups comes at the expense of hastening the demise of the wild populations (such as is the case with P. hanumavilasumica), than that's a price I will never be willing to pay. The irony is even further pronounced when people claim they are helping the species, and then buy a single sling. If anything, given their rarity and imminent demise, slings should be kept together to maximize their chances at breeding. But no, they are going into the hands of whoever happens to have a couple hundred bucks, regardless of their experience keeping or breeding Poecilotheria.

 

[forrestpengra]

I agree completely with your post. Most species can withstand some collection, and if limiting yourself to buying CB, there should be no detrimental impact to wild populations. However, I don't find that to be the case with P. hanumavilasumica. Smuggling of the species has occurred to the point that Indian authorities condemn the exotic pet trade. That's a noticeable impact. The species is so thoroughly endangered that any collecting is going to have a significant impact. I have no problem with keeping species in captivity, and if one happens to go extinct then it is better to have some in captivity than not. But if building CB groups comes at the expense of hastening the demise of the wild populations (such as is the case with P. hanumavilasumica), than that's a price I will never be willing to pay. The irony is even further pronounced when people claim they are helping the species, and then buy a single sling. If anything, given their rarity and imminent demise, slings should be kept together to maximize their chances at breeding. But no, they are going into the hands of whoever happens to have a couple hundred bucks, regardless of their experience keeping or breeding Poecilotheria.

Please don't take this as an argument because I'm not trying to, but here as described by the redlist is their reasoning for their threat.

Threats [top]
Major Threat(s): Loss of plantations due to developmental activities, small size of the habitat fragments, small population size, persecution and fragmentation are major threats. Due to increased tourism, in the course of a single year (2006) two plantations were razed of which one was observed to have at least 70 individuals. All the spiders were killed by the loggers while razing the plantation. Due to their skewed sex ratio, and the difference in maturity rates between males and females, small populations with less than 5,000 individuals have a very high probability of extinction within the next three to four decades (S. Molur and B.A. Daniel, pers. comm. from running a simulation model (Vortex)). Although not found extensively in pet trade, a few adult males and females along with subadults and juveniles were taken out of the country.

I know very little of these guys being in the pet trade but surely those who have made their way through and will remain there, should be utilized to their fullest ability.

 

[GiantVinegaroon]

you're not being serious are you? They are everywhere... The expo I went to this weekend there were probably 5 or more in a communal setup each for purchase. If you want to pony up $200 for slings or $700 for MF, you'll have plenty waiting for you at your door.

I'm not you. I have never seen a P. metallica, neither a sling nor adult, for sale. Not on this site, not on other sites, and not at expos.

I apologize for getting a little off subject in this thread.

 

[natebugman]

Scotty, you are alot closer to the subject of this thread than most of the other posters...lol.

 

[Zoltan]

I'm not you. I have never seen a P. metallica, neither a sling nor adult, for sale. Not on this site, not on other sites, and not at expos.

I apologize for getting a little off subject in this thread.

Perhaps you didn't look hard enough?

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?p=1597803
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?p=1595377
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?p=1591330

tarantulas.com also sold P. metallica in the past, check: http://www.tarantulas.com/for_sale.html

 

[sharpfang]

Most Rare? The ones we Don't know About

Also Psalmopoeus Langenbucheri.......Can't seem 2 find one in U.S.A.

I'm not you. I have never seen a P. metallica, neither a sling nor adult, for sale. Not on this site, not on other sites, and not at expos.

I apologize for getting a little off subject in this thread.

No need 2 appologize 2 anyone in this thread. I will sell ya a Sling, P. Met 1/2 off Market Price. Just PM me

Scotty, you are alot closer to the subject of this thread than most of the other posters...lol.

I guess I got Off-Topic as well ........Just Don't like 2 see the Insults though, Unnescessary.
Have a Good Day Yall - Jason

 

[Endagr8]

Why does every thread on Arachnoboards turn into an argument? I've been on other boards where the posters are actually civil to each other and stay on subject.

Leave if you don't like it. This is a good, civil debate.

Also Psalmopoeus Langenbucheri.......Can't seem 2 find one in U.S.A.

I think that Goterps has at least one of these. A few others may also have this species.

 

[dopamine]

G. pulchra! Right?