What do you think is the best beginner snake and why?

[jayefbe]

First, you disagree with Avic-man and this is what you get. A petty defensive argument, where he disagrees with everything you've said. I've been musked by garters, and that stuff stinks beyond belief and is very difficult to wash off.

I've had garters and they kinda suck as a pet snake. Avic-man won't read this (I'm on his ignore list - oh no!), but he's getting pretty defensive about a snake that musks to high heaven, is super fast and wiry, and can't be held. There are a few species that are incredibly beautiful, but even then I'd pass on them. I might not have 24+ years experience, but at 25 years old that would be pretty difficult. I've owned and bred snakes for over 12 years, and the garter snake was the worst pet snake I owned. King and rat snakes do not move just as fast as a garter. Garters are wiry little devils. Kings and rats aren't as deliberate and calm as say a ball python, but they are nothing like a garter snake. You basically have to pin a garter in your fingers to keep it from slithering out of your hands.

If you like ball pythons, go get one. Just make sure it is a CB snake. Hell, if you're willing to wait a few months I'd be willing to sell you one for dirt cheap. I guarantee it wouldn't crap and musk all over you every time you held it.

 

[jayefbe]

Jungle carpet pythons - these are great beginners because a heat source isnt really needed, they get to a good size that one person can handle alone even when they become adults and they are beautiful snakes. also they arent that expensive with brought fronm a breeder

down side - they nip until they become used to you, its been said they have an aversion to rats (but switching them over isnt too difficult)

None of these snakes need a heat source

well, i can take a picture of the one i have in a tank.

Also you can keep them in tupperwear bins (one that fits their size) and this keeps in heat/humidity better than the tank I have

But my house never goes below 70.

and my snake doesnt have an UTH or a hot spot.

close up:

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...dID=60035132&albumID=1001924&imageID=56547569

55 gallon tank:

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...dID=60035132&albumID=1001924&imageID=56547569

Do not listen to this guy! He is dead wrong! A ball python or carpet python might be ok without a heat source for a short while. For example, when cycling them for breeding I lower the hot spot significantly (from 90F to as low as 75) but I also keep a very close eye on them in case they get a respiratory infection. It is extremely unhealthy to keep any python at such low temperatures. They need the higher heat to maintain a healthy immune system, the correct metabolism levels and to digest their foods. It is ignorant, cheap, and downright wrong to keep a snake in incorrect and unhealthy conditions such as this.

Again, DO NOT LISTEN TO HIM. HE IS WRONG AND DOING SO WILL KILL YOUR SNAKES.

 

[Shrike]

Ok let me put it this way so you aren't confused about my experience with further post. I have 24+ years experience with snakes.

No one would be confused about your experience level if you took the time to differentiate between crap, as you put it, and musk. Halfwaynowhere was correct in pointing out your mistake. Rather than respond to a valid point, you changed the subject to the following:

As far as King snakes, corn snakes, ect. We aren't talking about them right now. I am talking about garter snakes. Funny thing is, you bring up king snakes and corn snakes, yet those are what's being recommended to him. Now that I find funny.

I fail to see the humor. It seems to me that kingsnakes and cornsnakes were brought up because the poster was referencing her own personal experience with musking behavior. That hardly seems off topic. Musking behavior is clearly a topic of discussion in this thread. Assuming you understand the poster's intent, do you still find the comment funny?

 

[jayefbe]

you better watch out mking, Avic-man might start ignoring you too!

 

[Lorgakor]

Thanks for the info JFB. That has pretty much been my experiences with garter snakes too. They are very fast and skittish. And I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the musk is horrid!

And thank you for pointing out that wrong advice that was posted. It didn't sound right to me at all. And just showing a picture of the snake doesn't make the husbandry correct.

I've decided on a Kenyan Sand Boa, and will be getting an adult female in three weeks.

 

[Wonnetz]

Good luck with the snake!Dont get bitten

 

[Tecnition4life]

Nope, they are easy to care for when little. They eat worms. And worms are easy to get. Every fishing bait store has them. I fed mine worms all the time and also plumped the babies up on worms before I released them. I am surprised you didn't know they ate worms. They also eat frogs and toads. With that said, I have to disagree with you. Garters make great beginner snakes.

I did know they ate worms but don't like feeding worms to snakes in captivity. They make to much of a mess imo.

 

[Tecnition4life]

Ok let me put it this way so you aren't confused about my experience with further post. I have 24+ years experience with snakes. And that includes hunting and catching them. The musk is easy to wash off. I have never had a problem removing it. You might want to look into a different soap if you are having issues removing it. As far as King snakes, corn snakes, ect. We aren't talking about them right now. I am talking about garter snakes. Funny thing is, you bring up king snakes and corn snakes, yet those are what's being recommended to him. Now that I find funny. Not that I am saying King snakes and corn snakes are bad first snakes because they aren't. I just find it funny that you would use them for your example. While I won't try to talk you into holding your snakes (makes no difference to me). The more you hold them, the more they get use to it and the less likely they are to musk you.

I have a hard time beleive you just wash your hands and its gone. I have been musked on by gartes many many times and it sticks for a while, the smell that is. I use every soap in the house and will still smell it. And those snakes you posted can be caught actually, just not in every state. If you live in a certain part of san francisco you could catch the second one, and there are florida blue garters in Florida.

 

[Avicularia Man]

no one would be confused about your experience level if you took the time to differentiate between crap, as you put it, and musk. Halfwaynowhere was correct in pointing out your mistake. Rather than respond to a valid point, you changed the subject to the following:



I fail to see the humor. It seems to me that kingsnakes and cornsnakes were brought up because the poster was referencing her own personal experience with musking behavior. That hardly seems off topic. Musking behavior is clearly a topic of discussion in this thread. Assuming you understand the poster's intent, do you still find the comment funny?

*****yawn*****

 

[Avicularia Man]

I have a hard time beleive you just wash your hands and its gone. I have been musked on by gartes many many times and it sticks for a while, the smell that is. I use every soap in the house and will still smell it. And those snakes you posted can be caught actually, just not in every state. If you live in a certain part of san francisco you could catch the second one, and there are florida blue garters in Florida.

Those snakes can't be caught where the person I responded too lives. So no, they can't be caught by that person. Didn't think I would have to explain that part. Figured it would be common sense what I meant. Oh well, I guess you needed it explained and now it is.

 

[jayefbe]

I have a hard time beleive you just wash your hands and its gone. I have been musked on by gartes many many times and it sticks for a while, the smell that is. I use every soap in the house and will still smell it. And those snakes you posted can be caught actually, just not in every state. If you live in a certain part of san francisco you could catch the second one, and there are florida blue garters in Florida.

Agreement with the musk. It's awful and does not wash away easily. The SF garter snake is actually critically endangered and catching one is very much against the law with severe consequences. The have a very small and rapidly deteriorating habitat range.

 

[Tecnition4life]

Agreement with the musk. It's awful and does not wash away easily. The SF garter snake is actually critically endangered and catching one is very much against the law with severe consequences. The have a very small and rapidly deteriorating habitat range.

I know that, yet they CAN be caught. Just not liggaly

 

[jayefbe]

I know that, yet they CAN be caught. Just not liggaly

Or if you have any ethics or morals.

 

[Shrike]

*****yawn*****

This is the sort of the response that people on this forum have come to expect from you. It's a shame that your "24+ years of experience" amount to nothing more than a random assortment of condescending and inflammatory remarks.

 

[Avicularia Man]

this is the sort of the response that people on this forum have come to expect from you. It's a shame that your "24+ years of experience" amount to nothing more than a random assortment of condescending and inflammatory remarks.

****yawn****

 

[dtknow]

Avic man and others bickering...could you quit that? Lets try to keep this topic as information dense as possible. This looks to be a great topic for reference and the last thing I want to do is have to sort through anymore crap than I need to get to the real info.
-----------------stuff about snakes----------------
Musking is really not too big of a deal with captive snakes. Most will give it up quickly. Garter snakes are a bit wiry and quick but so long as they are acclimated to handling no worse than say milks and kings. Certainly not the kind of snake to coil on your wrist and stay put as would a python.

For pythons I would sooner reccomend the spotted and children's pythons as good beginner snakes. They both stay small in the 3 ft range, 4 ft perhaps for spotted's...similar heat needs to balls and are problem free snakes.(well, all boids can get IBD but so long as you purchase from a good source non issue).

 

[Avicularia Man]

Avic man and others bickering...could you quit that? Lets try to keep this topic as information dense as possible. This looks to be a great topic for reference and the last thing I want to do is have to sort through anymore crap than I need to get to the real info.
-----------------stuff about snakes----------------
Musking is really not too big of a deal with captive snakes. Most will give it up quickly. Garter snakes are a bit wiry and quick but so long as they are acclimated to handling no worse than say milks and kings. Certainly not the kind of snake to coil on your wrist and stay put as would a python.

For pythons I would sooner reccomend the spotted and children's pythons as good beginner snakes. They both stay small in the 3 ft range, 4 ft perhaps for spotted's...similar heat needs to balls and are problem free snakes.(well, all boids can get IBD but so long as you purchase from a good source non issue).

Here, take a look at this. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bickering Because if you think I am bickering, you clearly don't know the meaning of the word. I haven't complained about a single thing here.

 

[Obelisk]

So if the ambient temps are appropriate, some snakes are good without a heat source? It's not that I don't believe you guys, but this is new to me. It goes against everything I've read about them requiring a thermal gradient in their enclosures.

What about milksnakes and hognoses? Would they do good with just a uniform temp in their enclosure?

 

[Tecnition4life]

So if the ambient temps are appropriate, some snakes are good without a heat source? It's not that I don't believe you guys, but this is new to me. It goes against everything I've read about them requiring a thermal gradient in their enclosures.

What about milksnakes and hognoses? Would they do good with just a uniform temp in their enclosure?

It would still be best to provide a heat source, Its a lot safer to do that so just in case the heat drops at night or what no. But if you are a begginer i wouldn't reccomend a hognose.

 

[ballpython2]

Do not listen to this guy! He is dead wrong! A ball python or carpet python might be ok without a heat source for a short while. For example, when cycling them for breeding I lower the hot spot significantly (from 90F to as low as 75) but I also keep a very close eye on them in case they get a respiratory infection. It is extremely unhealthy to keep any python at such low temperatures. They need the higher heat to maintain a healthy immune system, the correct metabolism levels and to digest their foods. It is ignorant, cheap, and downright wrong to keep a snake in incorrect and unhealthy conditions such as this.

Again, DO NOT LISTEN TO HIM. HE IS WRONG AND DOING SO WILL KILL YOUR SNAKES.

What are you talking about? this summer I'll have had my JCPS for a year without a heat source up top or down bottom and they do just fine. And my ball python.

Just because you may kill animals without using a heat source doesnt mean everyone will. it just means your doing something wrong. Ball pythons can live just fine in a rubbermaid bin without a heat soure because I've done it.

Someone else even said DIRECTLY after my post that using a heat source for a ball python is optional. and Ive been a snake hobbyist for 7+ yrs and I've NEVER had a snake die due to lack of heat. So im definitely doing something right.

my snakes eat EVERY week unless they are in shed mode...My juvenile JCPS eat three mice a week and my baby is now on a hoppers...Dont ASSUME people are doing stuff incorrectly just because they arent doing it your way.

Also, snakes dont just up and die when it comes to them dying because of a lack of heat and so on. Therefore, if I was doing anything incorrect my snakes' actions based on what is "normal snake actions" would definitely tell me there is something I need to change.

For example, my JCPS if they STOP eating and go off of feed, for longer than the period of time it takes to complete a shedding from start to end (keeping in mind my snakes are too young to breed so they arent going off of feed for that reason) that would be a sign.

Respitory infection would also be a sign, my snakes make NO noise at all.

A runny "nose',bubbles/foaming at the mouth they don't do that either.

When ball pythons get a respiratory infection they stare at the sky and rock back n forth and they make noise as if their throat is clogged and so on.

Another sign of sickness is if a snake stops eating because of lack of heat and it stops eating for so long it starts losing weight. when snakes stop eating as long as they keep their weight on, snake is fine and will eventually go back to eating. if it starts losing weight from not eating thats when people need to worry.

I know what i am doing and I know the signs. I wouldnt put my money into a hobby just to waste it by what you think is "incorrect."

When my snakes shed they shed in ONE piece.

hmmm why is that? because everything I'm doing is correct.

my snakes NEVER have eye caps that need to be helped taken off and they NEVER shed in pieces.

Also NONE of my snakes regurgitate their food either.

hmm how come my snakes never throw their food back up?

Oh yea I know why because they are WARM enough to fully digest their food and pass it without issue.

I my self used to be a beginner in this hobby so I learned just like all beginners will learn if the snake isnt warm enough or it freaks it out, it WILL throw the food back up without a second thought. and if a snake isnt warm enough it WILL choose death (from loss of weight) over having food rot in its stomach which CAN/DOES kill snakes also and this I ALREADY know.

YOU NEED TO REALIZE EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN WAY OF DOING STUFF WHAT WORKS FOR ONE PERSON MAY NOT WORK FOR SOMEONE ELSE...THAT DOESNT MEAN ITS WRONG.

TO THE O.P.: IF YOU WANT TO DO IT THE WAY EVERYONE ELSE TELLS YOU GO RIGHT AHEAD IM JUST TELLING YOU THE WAY THAT I DO IT AND WHAT WORKS FOR ME.

MY BABY JCP IF YOU LOOK CLOSE AT THE PICTURE BELOW YOU CAN SEE SHE HAS A BULDGE IN HER STOMACH THAT IS THREE FUZZIE MICE IN THERE THAT I GAVE HER LAST NIGHT. NOW ANYONE WHO KNOWS THERE SNAKES WILL TELL YOU IF A SNAKE DOESNT FEEL LIKE ITS WARM ENOUGH TO DIGEST ITS FOOD IT WILL THROW THE FOOD UP WITH A FEW HOURS OF SWALLOWING IT:

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...dID=60035132&albumID=1001924&imageID=56868632

HERE IS A PICTURE OF HER ENCLOSURE NOTHING FANCY JUST A HIDE SPOT AND A WATER DISH. SINCE THIS IS RUBBER I CANT USE A HOT SPOT SO CLEARLY MY WAY OF RAISING A JCP WITHOUT A HOT SPOT OR UTH (CANT HAVE A UTH ON A RUG OR IT MIGHT BE A FIREHAZARD) WORKS JUST FINE CONTRADICTING THIS PERSONS SLANDER:

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...dID=60035132&albumID=1001924&imageID=56868621

If I felt I needed that stuff for my animals I'd brought but I dont need it so I dont use it.

Also I've heard of cases on this board where people over did it trying to have their snakes in enclosures exactly like the habitat of their reptile and they made it too hot, too humid etc and the animal died....