Visit From The Usda!!

[Amanda]

It sucks that they took your bugs away, but atleast that's all they did. They didn't arrest you or fine you or anything else.

 

[kraken]

Arachnoboards does not endorse or encourage any hobbyist to disobey the laws in her/her country in any respect.

We are the largest forum of it's kind on the internet - it is not a surprise that we may be monitored as illegal trade in animals is a lucrative business that often shows little compassion for the animals we care so much about.

Laws that protect our native environments are needed - one need only look at Australia to know why. If there is legislation that prevents you from keeping the animals you have an interest in, I would suggest you pursue that through legal channels and explore what options you may have.

Arachnoboards is not in the business of offering personal information to any agency - we hardly have time to read all the posts much less try to play secret agent.

I think everyone here knows its not any of you moderators.I was not referring to any of you as snitches! The feds wouldnt even have to ask any of the mods for ISP's,that they can get from this boards server,and so on. I agree with the laws,its just sometimes they are odd.Mainly on the mantids and millipedes that have been here for years.And the sticks!

 

[NrthCstInverts]

Sheri,

Your post makes it kinda sound like I knowingly purchase illegal stuff, then cry about it when i get my hand slapped. Not the case at all. I am all for regs if they really help save the planet, or continent, or state, or even my backyard.
I just wanted to give everyone a friendly reminder , more or less, that they are here and watching...... more so to discourage people from knowingly selling illegal things and getting people who may not have the correct knowledge in trouble.
(If i read your post in the wrong tone then im sorry!! )

And i really dont think its the Mods that are turning peoples info in.... like i said earlier, you can get the info so easily in other ways.... why bother the mods here to get the info and risk sending up a bunch of flags!

 

[NrthCstInverts]

It sucks that they took your bugs away, but atleast that's all they did. They didn't arrest you or fine you or anything else.

YES, you are correct about that one! They were both very nice though, and we actually chatted about quite a bit before they had to go.

One thing they did say however was (lol) they didnt know anything about any sort of ban on Millis.................... funny huh.

 

[KennyGee]

U gotta relize that they can find out anything about u just by getting ur ip address. hmmm if there endangered than i can understand but why would they take a walking stick?

 

[NrthCstInverts]

they fall under some sort of "plant pest" law. then by shipping them across state lines without a permit it became a federal no no ..... and its the USDAs job to enforce it.

 

[CustomNature]

That's some scary stuff right there. I guess I'll just have to let all of my vietnamese walkingsticks go, along with my new mutation of killer bees, along with my colony of killer japanese beetles.

 

[crashergs]

hahahaha.. thats nuts!

 

[kraken]

Dont Forget The Brain Slugs From Outer Space!!;p {d {d

 

[Wade]

OK folks, a few points...

1. Those of you who are suggesting that you want to release stuff just just to stick it to the USDA are not helping matters at all! You are only re-affirming what they already think...that insect hobbyists are a bunch of irresponsible amateurs willfully engaging in criminal activity. You already know they browse these boards, why do you want to make matters worse? Criticizing their actions is one thing, but actually advocating deliberately releasing insects as a form of protest is just not smart at all. Even if you're only joking, I can assure you THEY don't take it that way.

2. Introduced insects DO cause tremendous damage to both agriculture and the ecosystem. Although I think the USDA regs are over-reaching and often unenforceable, they do have a real job to do. At the present time, the USDA defines nearly all exotic insects as being pests. I have a dream that someday there will be an "exceptions" list of large, showy bugs that hobbyists are interested in and have proven to be low-risk that the USDA will deregulate and allow hobbyists to have. Many species of walking sticks, for example, have been in culture for decades and have not become introduced pests and would be good candidates for such a list. However, militant attitudes will prevent that from ever happening.

3. Some seem to believe that this is part of some vast, evil government conspiracy aimed at limiting your rights. Actually, it's more likely part of bureaucratic government's natural desire to grow itself. Nevertheless, the USDA does serve a legitimate purpose, even if busting people for walkingsticks that have been cultured for decades by hundreds, if not thousands of people in this country is a colossal waste of time taxpayer money. You can rant and rave all you like, but it ain't gonna go away. The best you can hope for is change.

Wade

 

[Scythemantis]

I realize they're doing their job and don't have a say in the matter, but I hope they realize that we know more about these animals than their overworked and underpaid "researchers" and nine out of ten banned species have ZERO pest potential, without question.

 

[Wade]

RANT AND RAVE ALL YOU LIKE PEOPLE, true change can take place if we OUST 100% of the current government at election time. Please Register and Vote because it is your right and responsibility.

John J Starr Jr
.

I never suggested not saying anything, I've been very vocal myself on this subject in many different places. However, there is a difference between complaining about illogical regulations and advocating what amounts to ecological terrorism.

I'm kind of curious as to what political party you think is going to stand up for the rights of bug keepers. Seriously, who? Since the republicans are in power now, are you suggesting that democrats would somehow fix this for us? If so, you've gotta be kidding. These regs have been in place for years, decades even, through multiple administrations. Just because most bug hobbyists aren't aware of them doesn't mean they're new!

Perhaps you're talking third party candidate, like the libertarians or the green party? Now, THAT'S some wishful thinking! If one of them actually did get in power, the libertarians might actually help simply by stripping away the bureaucracy, but the green party would likely EXPAND the powers of the USDA since they're environmentally motivated.

The only thing new here is the level of enforcement. Since I've actually seen the head of the permitting dept. of the USDA APHIS division (the one that concerns us) speak, I know whats happening now has been in the works for some time. Back in 2000 (during the Clinton administration for those of you who think that somehow Bush is behind this) he indicated that they were planning to "go after" the pet trade. My suspicion is that they've been gathering the information but not acting on it for years, to the point where people felt safe selling them on the internet and at reptile shows. This makes it MUCH easier for them to conduct raids, since if it were entirely in peoples homes it would be much more difficult. Of course, if the animals in question were real threats, waiting doesn't make much sense, but then there's the whole bureaucracy thing.

Although I agree that people should vote, it has no impact on this issue whatsoever, unless the bug-keeping lobby gets a lot bigger. Until that happens (not holding my breath on that one) our only hope is to petition the USDA themselves. Just blasting them without recognizing the job they're charged with and the reality of the situation accomplishes nothing.

Wade

 

[kraken]

Regardless.... we have to grab our ankles and relax

 

[Hedorah99]

Tell them to stop being coweardly and come on here and admit their foul deeds Jeez I am tempted just to buy such bug then let them go on purpose. At least tell them to remburse you the bastards.

Yea, thats a great attitude. It statements like that that get them ALL taken away from us.

 

[MRL]

OK folks, a few points...

1. Those of you who are suggesting that you want to release stuff just just to stick it to the USDA are not helping matters at all! You are only re-affirming what they already think...that insect hobbyists are a bunch of irresponsible amateurs willfully engaging in criminal activity. You already know they browse these boards, why do you want to make matters worse? Criticizing their actions is one thing, but actually advocating deliberately releasing insects as a form of protest is just not smart at all. Even if you're only joking, I can assure you THEY don't take it that way.

2. Introduced insects DO cause tremendous damage to both agriculture and the ecosystem. Although I think the USDA regs are over-reaching and often unenforceable, they do have a real job to do. At the present time, the USDA defines nearly all exotic insects as being pests. I have a dream that someday there will be an "exceptions" list of large, showy bugs that hobbyists are interested in and have proven to be low-risk that the USDA will deregulate and allow hobbyists to have. Many species of walking sticks, for example, have been in culture for decades and have not become introduced pests and would be good candidates for such a list. However, militant attitudes will prevent that from ever happening.

3. Some seem to believe that this is part of some vast, evil government conspiracy aimed at limiting your rights. Actually, it's more likely part of bureaucratic government's natural desire to grow itself. Nevertheless, the USDA does serve a legitimate purpose, even if busting people for walkingsticks that have been cultured for decades by hundreds, if not thousands of people in this country is a colossal waste of time taxpayer money. You can rant and rave all you like, but it ain't gonna go away. The best you can hope for is change.

Wade

Great post.

----------------------

Most of the replies in this thread have done absolutely nothing to help your own cause. You all show how deserving you are of keeping these insects as pets.

 

[psionix]

At least tell them to remburse you the bastards.

so when a house gets raided, the cops have to pay those folks back for the meth the take, right?

great logic.

 

[Wade]

John,

What statements of mine are "conjecture"? The fact that the USDA regs have been around for years? The fact that introduced insects have caused tremendous damage? All this is easily checked, you don't have to take my word for it.

I don't know how long you've been around this hobby, but it can't be to long if you didn't know walking sticks were banned by USDA regs! This OLD, OLD OLD news. I've known plenty of people who were full of bluster about not being intimidated by the government until they showed up on their doorstep.

You talk of "radical change" but don't define it. Do you REALLY think the USDA regs are motivated by a right wing agenda? That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard of! You're entitled to radical left-wing opinions, but really this is off topic for this thread since left vs right has no impact in this arena. Do you really think a left-wing government is just going to let you have whatever you want? That's so naive it's almost cute. Left, right it doesn't matter, the USDA will remain the same regardless of who gets voted into office, the only thing that changes is how much money they get to enforce their regulations. The only politcal event that would actually affect it would be an anarchist revolution or a complete breakdown of the goverment which is an absurd postion to take in the name of bug keeping.

Of course, froim the sounds of it you have a lot of other issues with the government, which is fine but it'd be better discussed in the watering hole. This forum is about insects.

Wade

 

[Thoth]

Stepping away from the evil gov't conspiracy aspect of the thread for a moment. Wildnmildpets, chance are they were monitoring your supplier, which lead to you and probably the website. Thats probably why they only only confiscated them from you, as you were the end party. The person you bought them from probably suffered harsher punishments.

Most of the USDA regs concerning pest insects has some logic behind it even though one may not agree. Basically they want to limit inadvertant introduction of species that will adversely affect the enviroment (mainly negative impact on agriculture). So any species that may survive in the enviroment here is restricted. Since the US has various different climates, sometimes as a result something that has no chances surviving in the wild north of the Mason-Dixon may still be restricted because it will thrive in Florida. Plus certain states have additional restrictions above and beyond the USDA, (FL and AZ come to mind.)

Sheri's statement is not an accusation of anybody or anything. Its just a restating of the website policy that can be found in the rules and regs of the site. Just to make everyone aware.

 

[Mister Internet]

While you have a right to your opinion I believe that some of your statements are conjecture with very little at all to base them on. The sky is blue so there is NOTHING that can be done about the situation makes as much sense as some your statement do.

I'm surprised you know how to use the word conjecture, yet have absolutely no idea what it means. Is this quote by you an example of how NOT to use conjecture?? Lots of unprovable and sensantional hyperbole with ZERO facts to back it up... sounds like conjecture to me:

Actually humans do far more damge than every single insect on the entire planet does period. THE USDA is filled with many people who in many cases are under educated for their position and that do not allways know what they are doing just like 99_% of the other government agencies that are filled with mostly ladder climbing political folks only intersting in getting ahead and not in what the job is actually for. We the people could do just fine by closing down 99_% of the government starting with the white house and congress. Trust me, most all of us would not miss them a single bit and would not notice a difference except for the money that we would save in taxes.

And then you state this:

The only hope for the preservation of any wildlife genetic material is by those of us who are captive breeding because wildlife is doomed to massive extinction unless a dramatic change in our present course is made. Sorry but I do not believe in the current government or any of the agencies below it to do more than typical political grandstanding. Sounds like the left wing and maybe even extreme green left wing would do more to save the wildlife to me in this perspective.

By your own logic, less regulations make for easier captive breeding efforts, right? What party do you think fights HARDEST against most environmentalist legislation? The Republicans, of course. Whether you agree with the political party or not, the FACT that Republicans tend to vote in favor of less environmentalist agenda, and Democrats tend to vote in FAVOR of more of it, does not bode well for your case. You are ranting and raving that if we installed a 100% Democrat/Green government tomorrow, that all stupid environmental regulations would simply fly out the window, and they'd let us keep whatever we wanted with impunity?? You aren't using your head... your rantings are contradicting themselves.

I think you are just mad at government in general, and haven't had time to let your rational thoughts coalesce on this subject. If we were 100% Democrat/liberal/Green tomorrow, I guarantee we would start to see MORE restrictive legislation concerning exotics... because that's how lawmakers see "being environmentally conscious"... just passing more laws.

 

[Wade]

Most of the USDA regs concerning pest insects has some logic behind it even though one may not agree. Basically they want to limit inadvertant introduction of species that will adversely affect the enviroment (mainly negative impact on agriculture). So any species that may survive in the enviroment here is restricted. Since the US has various different climates, sometimes as a result something that has no chances surviving in the wild north of the Mason-Dixon may still be restricted because it will thrive in Florida

Actually, as written, the regulations don't make any distiction as to whether or not the insect in question could survive here. If it eats any part of a plant, even dead plants, it is considered a potential plant pest, so that cuts out everything but predators. Most of the predators get cut out because they ALSO define pests as anything that might eat a plant pollinator (bees, butterflies etc.) so that eliminates mantids, assassin bugs etc. Fortunately arachnids (except Acari) fall under the jurisdiction of the USFWS and they are mainly concerned with violations of the endangered species act, the lacey act and CITES so the USDA doesn't go after them, even though they would fall under their definition of "potential plant pests".

You're right about them probably investigating the supplier. A pet store near me was inspected by the USDA recently because one of the wholesalers they delt with had walkingsticks on their pricelist. The petstore itself didn't have any, but they said they were inspecting all the customers of that wholesaler.

Wade