Versicolor sling dying

[Mike Withrow]

In both of my Avics enclosures which the smaller of the two spider's, one is inch and half or tad bigger.
I keep both their water dishes attached up high on cork bark . My bigger one is most times sitting out right beside it I've never seen either of mine on the ground.

My smaller Avic never uses it hide much. It's done the typical webbed up a corner and has a tube running down one corner. I do spray parts of it when I refill their dishes

 

[Dry Desert]

Update: the pattern continues to repeat itself.

The sling emptied the water dish overnight. A lot of it managed to spill into the substrate which is now entirely saturated.
View attachment 455888
I did not mist last night for fear of overdoing it, but it seems it did better that night I misted it and then reverted last night when I didn't mist it, so I took a chance and did it again today.

I have prepared an identical enclosure with DRY substrate in case I need to do an emergency switch.

Upon cleaning the dish to refill it, the T stood up and wandered to the top where it climbed into my palm and pressed itself flat.

I tried to nudge it back in but it refused to let go of my hand. I took this as a hint and took the thermo sensor to my hand. 93°F.

I raised the temperature and misted again. The substrate is now SOAKED and the humidity is easily 90-100%. Temperature is now 82°F.
View attachment 455889
Still showing symptoms of lethargy, curling up, and occasional leg twitches when it attempts to walk. Condition seems to have improved since the first day, and it has enough spunk to resist me forcing it facefirst into the water dish.


Thought I'd lost you for sure. Appreciate your insight amd advice.

When you said "I honestly don't understand people's lack of grasping the importance of correct humidity in an enclosure."

I can answer that for you. I'm a victim of the same effect. It is due to the inconsistency of the advice given here in these forums. Someone who doesn't know will accept the advice and information given to them. Benefit of the doubt effect. I will believe anything reasonable you tell me about their husbandry because you are experienced and I lack the knowledge. Because I trust you have experience I also trust you know what you're telling me. I take your digested and condensed experiences and confirm them if I can. This helped me learn quite a bit about husbandry very quickly but is a double edged sword when information is inconsistent.

Said information on keeping Avics is inconsistent.

Take a gander at this thread even, there's already a glaring contradiction in the advice I have been given. I am not ignoring his advice BTW, I am taking it with a grain of salt because of these inconsistencies.

Maybe if the community could reach a consensus on how to correctly inform new Avic keepers on their husbandry, we could rectify this issue. And I mean correctly like explain ventilation and humidity and their roles in Avic keeping as opposed to mantras such as "dry them out" or "don't mist them every day" or "don't worry about humidity"

I understand there are a wide range of environments, methods and parameters for keeping them successfully and what works for some might not work for others. I'm just saying that the advice and information is not standardized and so knowing what is right and what is wrong is difficult for someone who simply does not have the experience or knowledge yet.

Example: one experienced member tells me to keep them completely dry, only adding water as you go. Another member tells me to keep the substrate damp to regulate humidity in the enclosure, never letting it be completely dry nor completely soaked. Another member tells me relatively high humidity is fine as long as the ventilation is superb.

So I think the inconsistency is not from the new keeper who is being pulled in several directions--the issue comes from the information and advice given not being standardized.

Please know I do not fault any of you. This is just my observation and experience as a new member to your community.

I have kept my Avics using every method described so far. And I have had success (and no failures) with every method described as well. That's why I cannot make a confident or conclusive guess as to what is wrong and what to do next.

Dehydration was the most commonly encountered issue and that's where I started.

A moment of humility on my part--I'm realizing this might be my fault due to an oversight in my husbandry. Even if this is a runt, it was doing fine in my care up until this molt. Barring any genetic defects (which seems a good % of them do have) the rest of the variables are due to my care.

I am making some assumptions here, but this is what my running theory is:

Assumption 1: this sling was not doomed to die due to genetics, while it certainly is common and possible, writing that off would be too easy for my liking

Assumption 2: this sling did not use its water dish at all. I keep a few different arboreals, and each has it's own preference for method of hydration.

My P. irminia are completely fine with water dishes on the ground, they are often at ground level hiding behind dirt curtains and will wander into the dish occasionally and drink. They also drink from droplets on their webbing. Confirmed with observations.

My T. Seladonia rarely ever wander out of their trapdoors, I provide water to them by placing the dish within reach of the trapdoor and occasionally dribbling a drop or two onto the lip of the trapdoor. I have seen them hydrate via both methods.

My Avics are the toss up bunch--I have a few that wander down to the substrate and I've seen them using water dishes and a couple I have never seen even near the substrate. My mistake was assuming that because some of them do go to the substrate to drink that all of them will. Since I have seen my P. irminia and some of my Avics drinking from the dish on the ground as well as from their webbing, I never thought much of it.

Assumption 3: that could have been my crucial oversight. What if this Avic NEVER used it's water dish? In fact, I've never seen this particular Avic drinking from any source besides the webbing. One drop a week (if even that) is HARDLY enough hydration.

Assumption 4: this is the assumed scenario. The sling slowly dehydrated (mostly hydrating from food items and occasional misting) until it finally molted this week. It probably had a bad molt and ended up severely dehydrated, to the point of near death.

Assumption 5: It's most likely recovering slowly, but I suspect that it might have sustained an internal injury from the molt, since it goes through this rapid cycle of hydrated and recovering to curled up and lethargic very quickly.

Will continue to monitor and update.

Thanks again.

Couple of important pointers,

Many creatures will never drink from standing water.
An excellent example is the chameleon, they will never drink from standing water, always has to be a drip system or regular spraying.

Second pointer.

I have never been on Facebook or any other money oriented/ point scoring media, so I don't have to worry about Facebook "advice" .
However what I do is my own research.

Let me explain -
As well as numerous inverts, I also keep various Salamanders, and a few snakes.
When I purchased my latest salamanders, Moroccan Salamanders I googled Morocco and the particular area these came from.
I checked the annual temperatures, average and monthly, the average annual rainfall, and the humidity for that area.
With all these details I then set up the enclosure.

Not a swampy mess with salamanders wallowing in mud, but a fairly dry environment with average humidity and they also quiet happy with temperatures higher than the recommended 20.

All this was due to a little time spent researching their natural environment and then repliclicating that best I could.

Some " experts" say being nocturnal they don't need or use uvb, mine have and do, only 2% and on a timer, but it's there if they need it. I personally think everything should have access to uvb, they will use it as and when required.

Point is carry out your own research on the creatures environment, not research on Facebook or similar, and use information, even mine, obtained from forums as a general guide.
As you have found, even on AB advice can be conflicting.

 

[SpookySpooder]

UPDATE: The sling's condition remains the same. Not getting worse, but also not getting better. The sling is now refusing water. It is lethargic but will perk up just to move out of the water dish when I coax it in. I cannot flip it over to place water on it's fangs as it will flip over and walk away.

The sling chooses to lay down and stay motionless on the substrate. The legs are no longer curled underneath the body, but they aren't in full extension either. They seem to wiggle and twitch at random as the T lays still. Humidity is easily 100%, I have stopped misting as the water is now evaporating from the substrate and condensing on the walls. It is dry around the vents and top but wet along the substrate. Temperature is holding at 82°F.

I suspect you are absolutely correct. I feel avics in particular get quite thirsty in the weeks leading up to a molt, and I believe their instinct primarily tells them to drink off their webbing. I don't have tons of experience, but this is what I have observed in my animals. Some will come out to drink when they get thirsty enough, most will not if they can meet their hydration needs without leaving their web. I also feed them pretty heavily when they are small to plump them up and encourage molting. Probably leads to slighty longer fasts in premolt, but I haven't had any issues because of it.
As far as humidity, I feel they are tolerant to a wide range of humidity as long as ventilation is adequate and hydration needs are met. I have seen reports of people having succcess on everything from dry substrate to literally flooded enclosures and everything in between.
I also noticed my A. purpurea with the semi-ruptured abdomen took quite a long time "resting" in what looked like a death curl before it started moving in the right direction. Hopefully if you keep it hydrated and are patient it will keep moving in the right direction. The ups and downs are definitely odd. If it is actually losing fluids that seems like quite a lot in a short time. Hang in there, we're all rooting for you and your little one!

Thanks, I'm kicking myself for not recognizing this Avic wouldn't go looking for the water dish. Hope it isn't too late and it can pull through. I caught it pretty much right away and it has survived past the 3 day mark I wrote off on it, so I am hopeful I can nurse it back to health.

In both of my Avics enclosures which the smaller of the two spider's, one is inch and half or tad bigger.
I keep both their water dishes attached up high on cork bark . My bigger one is most times sitting out right beside it I've never seen either of mine on the ground.

My smaller Avic never uses it hide much. It's done the typical webbed up a corner and has a tube running down one corner. I do spray parts of it when I refill their dishes

Yeah, I'm am now moving all the water dishes right next to where they all decide to stick their feet out and web up. I did this for some of them I don't know why I didn't just do it for all of them. A really big oversight on my part. I've seen every type of T I have drinking from their dishes so I made the mistake of assuming this little sling acted the same as the others. One of the sacmates of this sling acts exactly like your Avic. It has a big web tunnel that extends the side of the enclosure with multiple openings, one opening is directly above the water dish on the substrate floor, and I've seen it using it from this opening in the web.

That was what gave me my false sense of security that most likely led to this circumstance.

Couple of important pointers,

Many creatures will never drink from standing water.
An excellent example is the chameleon, they will never drink from standing water, always has to be a drip system or regular spraying.

Second pointer.

I have never been on Facebook or any other money oriented/ point scoring media, so I don't have to worry about Facebook "advice" .
However what I do is my own research.

Let me explain -
As well as numerous inverts, I also keep various Salamanders, and a few snakes.
When I purchased my latest salamanders, Moroccan Salamanders I googled Morocco and the particular area these came from.
I checked the annual temperatures, average and monthly, the average annual rainfall, and the humidity for that area.
With all these details I then set up the enclosure.

Not a swampy mess with salamanders wallowing in mud, but a fairly dry environment with average humidity and they also quiet happy with temperatures higher than the recommended 20.

All this was due to a little time spent researching their natural environment and then repliclicating that best I could.

Some " experts" say being nocturnal they don't need or use uvb, mine have and do, only 2% and on a timer, but it's there if they need it. I personally think everything should have access to uvb, they will use it as and when required.

Point is carry out your own research on the creatures environment, not research on Facebook or similar, and use information, even mine, obtained from forums as a general guide.
As you have found, even on AB advice can be conflicting.

I deactivated in 2011.

I got all my information from Google, YouTube, and lurking Tarantula forums. I noticed the inconsistencies on the other sites as well. Google gave better results here and that's where I decided to roost. YouTube had the same problem Google did, kept pointing me toward the incorrect people and videos.

Eventually Tom Moran, DavesLilBeasties, Tom Patterson, and JamiesTarantulas became the social media people I emulated as I filtered out the sensationalist channels.

(If anybody would like to PM me other great channels and hobbyists I would love that)

I have been around all kinds of animals my whole life.

I've kept hundreds of aquatic species. Never has an issue with hydration before. I don't really know why...

I'm an avid gardener, but plants are easy.

I also keep a variety of herps, so I understand the basics of husbandry. I have a pretty good procedure when it comes to researching my species and learning their care.

The experience and repeated exposure to the circumstances in this hobby are the nuances that I lack. Simply speaking, I'm too new to this to have experienced many of the common events that you've all seen over the years.

I got my first T at the beginning of 2021 as a happy accident. I didn't even come into this hobby on my own right. I had an Ornithoctoninae just dropped off at my door as I was leaving town and that was my first dip in the pool.

I appreciate what you laid out for me in terms of explaining your process. It has made me realize some things that I hadn't acknowledged, and that I need to be observant of each individual specimen and really investigate the inconsistencies in information before believing any advice or information as the Gospel.

View attachment versicolor twitch.mp4

BUMPDATE: Significant change in the sling's condition. It is now the 6th day since symptoms began. A new symptom has appeared.

The sling now attempts locomotion without coaxing. However as shown in the video, it is having trouble using its legs.

Is this DKS resulting from severe dehydration? Pardon me if I'm misusing the term DKS, but I couldn't find any other relevant information about the twitching.



I gave the sling a feeder, which it grabbed and pulled toward it. I have yet to see if it will consume it.

Not sure if my sling is getting better or worse.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

View attachment 456033

BUMPDATE: Significant change in the sling's condition. It is now the 6th day since symptoms began. A new symptom has appeared.

The sling now attempts locomotion without coaxing. However as shown in the video, it is having trouble using its legs.

Is this DKS resulting from severe dehydration? Pardon me if I'm misusing the term DKS, but I couldn't find any other relevant information about the twitching.

View attachment 456034
View attachment 456035
I gave the sling a feeder, which it grabbed and pulled toward it. I have yet to see if it will consume it.

Not sure if my sling is getting better or worse.

Yes that’s possibly dks. Dks is why I lost my p Metallica too .

 

[Dry Desert]

View attachment 456033

BUMPDATE: Significant change in the sling's condition. It is now the 6th day since symptoms began. A new symptom has appeared.

The sling now attempts locomotion without coaxing. However as shown in the video, it is having trouble using its legs.

Is this DKS resulting from severe dehydration? Pardon me if I'm misusing the term DKS, but I couldn't find any other relevant information about the twitching.

View attachment 456034
View attachment 456035
I gave the sling a feeder, which it grabbed and pulled toward it. I have yet to see if it will consume it.

Not sure if my sling is getting better or worse.

DKS is not linked to dehydration.
Bad dehydration will cause wobbly motion with maybe legs tucked under.
DKS symptoms are different.

 

[TLSizzle]

Awww. That would break my heart.

Possibly dumb question, but how can it still be so dehydrated after days and days of Spooky giving it water?

 

[Dry Desert]

Awww. That would break my heart.

Possibly dumb question, but how can it still be so dehydrated after days and days of Spooky giving it water?

The problems that dehydration caused were only apparent at a later stage, rehydrating can hopefully slowly bring recovery.

 

[SpookySpooder]

Cricket was either partially eaten or uneaten.
I'm leaning toward uneaten as I've never seen a T not finish a meal but it does look a bit drained.

Awww. That would break my heart.

Possibly dumb question, but how can it still be so dehydrated after days and days of Spooky giving it water?

No dumb questions when you're learning. You can make dumb mistakes like mine, but learn from them and you can gain something from the mistake.

The dehydrating most likely started an indeterminate time before the molt. I cannot confirm when the last time this sling even used the water dish so I have to assume it only gained water from crickets and droplets on its web, and probably didn't even drink every time I provided droplets.

Rehydrating the sling this past week is a response to discovering symptoms of severe dehydration after the molt. So it was already going downhill, had the molt, then displayed symptoms. Rehydrating it now could potentially help it, but it could also have sustained internal damage that prevents it from functioning despite being alive.

I cannot confirm this since I'm not an expert on their metabolic processes and anatomy, but imagine for example some organ or capillary was damaged during or after the molt due to a lack of fluids, that internal injury cannot heal itself just because the sling now has water.

As mentioned, if it wasn't that severe, it may recover. It's an uphill battle from the point of near death basically. Like if you found a severely dehydrated person dying in the desert for days, giving them a gallon of water will halt their death but it won't bring them back to full health.

Appreciate the continued support. I'll update if anything changes.

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

Is there any possibility that a contaminant could have been introduced to this sling? Via pet flea meds or cleaning supplies or the like?

 

[SpookySpooder]

That is a possibility but is highly unlikely.

I have experience in lab environments culturing phytocultures, tissue cloning plants, and cultivating and inoculating mushroom mycelium cultures. The habits are engrained in my procedure, but there is a limit to how much I can regulate in a home environment outside of the sterile lab.

I am quite strict about cross contamination and quarantine procedures and I avoid the use of chemicals whenever I can. I only clean around enclosures with hot water and elbow grease.

Unless it needs a deep clean then I'll do vinegar or diluted bleach, but then I rinse well and let the container sit for days and rinse it again before reusing it.

I did not treat or clean this enclosure at all.

I don't use harsh chemical pesticides in my garden. I try to stick to physical and biological methods of pest control. When I use pesticides they are derived from plants and microbes, and none of that makes it into my T's because the garden is at a different location 4 miles away.

I rinse my hands with hot water and a soap without a scent/coloring agent/bubbling detergent before I do maintenance. I wear a mask and goggles when I do anything and even dip my tongs in a mild sterilizing solution before I take it from feeder colony to feeder colony and also enclosure to enclosure.

A bit extra but that's what I'm used to.

That leaves contaminated feeders or contamination from airborne substances.

I don't suspect the feeders, as I've regularly used these pinheads from the same pet store who gets them from the same breeder. Not a single one of my other slings has had an issue with these feeders, and my sample size is ~50 slings on these feeders over ~20 months.

This leaves airborne contamination from flea meds. I do not use any aerosol medications or foggers. The only medication I use is Advantage for large cats. It is a topical solution that is applied to their skin.

So now two scenarios present themselves:

1. Stray cat hairs dosed with medication floated on the air into the enclosure or were introduced by my person.

2. A poisoned flea jumped off my cat, went into the animal room, got into the cabinet where I keep all my slings and then got into this one vial.

My cats are not allowed in the animal closet, and I do not pet them before I touch my other animals. I also filter the air in the house with multiple HEPA grade air filters. (PM me for link if you wanna evaluate it) I do this for the sake of my allergies.

It is possible that hairs may have stuck to my clothing and then transferred to this one enclosure, but I didn't see any cat hairs or fleas in the entire enclosure. Still a possibility.

The slings are behind two air filters, a regular door, and a cabinet door so I don't think a flea would have climbed in. If it was contamination by poison through hair, then it most likely came off my shirt as I do not have an apron or smock that I can change into at home. But I do use lint roller every single time I pet my cats because the hairs will trigger my allergies.

Poison seems unlikely, as none of my other slings have been affected and all have undergone the same routines and care.

I think it's just really bad dehydration. But I don't actually know.

 

[Mike Withrow]

That is a possibility but is highly unlikely.

I have experience in lab environments culturing phytocultures, tissue cloning plants, and cultivating and inoculating mushroom mycelium cultures. The habits are engrained in my procedure, but there is a limit to how much I can regulate in a home environment outside of the sterile lab.

I am quite strict about cross contamination and quarantine procedures and I avoid the use of chemicals whenever I can. I only clean around enclosures with hot water and elbow grease.

Unless it needs a deep clean then I'll do vinegar or diluted bleach, but then I rinse well and let the container sit for days and rinse it again before reusing it.

I did not treat or clean this enclosure at all.

I don't use harsh chemical pesticides in my garden. I try to stick to physical and biological methods of pest control. When I use pesticides they are derived from plants and microbes, and none of that makes it into my T's because the garden is at a different location 4 miles away.

I rinse my hands with hot water and a soap without a scent/coloring agent/bubbling detergent before I do maintenance. I wear a mask and goggles when I do anything and even dip my tongs in a mild sterilizing solution before I take it from feeder colony to feeder colony and also enclosure to enclosure.

A bit extra but that's what I'm used to.

That leaves contaminated feeders or contamination from airborne substances.

I don't suspect the feeders, as I've regularly used these pinheads from the same pet store who gets them from the same breeder. Not a single one of my other slings has had an issue with these feeders, and my sample size is ~50 slings on these feeders over ~20 months.

This leaves airborne contamination from flea meds. I do not use any aerosol medications or foggers. The only medication I use is Advantage for large cats. It is a topical solution that is applied to their skin.

So now two scenarios present themselves:

1. Stray cat hairs dosed with medication floated on the air into the enclosure or were introduced by my person.

2. A poisoned flea jumped off my cat, went into the animal room, got into the cabinet where I keep all my slings and then got into this one vial.

My cats are not allowed in the animal closet, and I do not pet them before I touch my other animals. I also filter the air in the house with multiple HEPA grade air filters. I do this for the sake of my allergies.

It is possible that hairs may have stuck to my clothing and then transferred to this one enclosure, but I didn't see any cat hairs or fleas in the entire enclosure. Still a possibility.

The slings are behind two air filters, a regular door, and a cabinet door so I don't think a flea would have climbed in. If it was contamination by poison through hair, then it most likely came off my shirt as I do not have an apron or smock that I can change into at home. But I do use lint roller every single time I pet my cats because the hairs will trigger my allergies.

Poison seems unlikely, as none of my other slings have been affected and all have undergone the same routines and care.

I think it's just really bad dehydration. But I don't actually know.

I really wish me or someone had a solid answer for what's going on with your spider.

I don't see anything at all you did or did not do that was wrong. I've only ran into two cases of a spider that the lack of water as a source and in their keeping was a major issue and that was both all due to an owner that is a waste of the world's supply of air.

I don't mean to imply or suggest you are doing anything wrong. I'm only letting you know how I keep my aborial spider's and my experience.

My thoughts are you have a sling that mother nature said your not fit for whatever reason.

In saying that my thought is also you doing all you can and research is by far more of a chance it will have. There is not many of us that would put ourselves and make those motions for a spider. I hope your not to hard on yourself over this.

If you actually had made a true screw up. You already know as well as I how that post would go. It hasn't. You know why? Because you haven't.

Something else I want to mention about my keeping methods that I've picked up bits and pieces along with practical thoughts and views passed along to me.

Again I'd like to add this is my method derived from my experience for one,and the very first two you mentioned as far a social media goes. I honestly can't remember if Tom keeps his water dishes up high or not ?
Anyways before I get off track and I only bring any of my posts on your thread because you are leaning towards dehydration. I very rarely feed crickets. All my feeders are something I buy like wax worms in a pinch... meal worms anything juicy and I have a dubia colony big enough I can feed gut fed roaches to my spider's.
Btw thank you informing me about the allergie bit. That would explain more than likely why the past couple years I've came close to overdosing on my own mucus, a dollar says overdosing on someone else's mucus would be way worse... is the reason..
Moving on....the most I can feed them and for them to obtain some moisture along with nutrients is how I feed to help prevent dehydration problems. My hopes and theory.

 

[CrazyOrnithoctonineGuy]

I've had a similar experience (with the sling showing the same symptoms) the first time I tried keeping a versicolor that ended up turning me off the species for a while. Then I got a sling as a freebie and it's thriving....

 

[Mike Withrow]

I've had a similar experience (with the sling showing the same symptoms) the first time I tried keeping a versicolor that ended up turning me off the species for a while. Then I got a sling as a freebie and it's thriving....

Tbh ever since I got into the hobby I've read a ton about people having issues with them and I have hesitated myself buying one. I'm all about moisturizer dependant asian spider's but hesitant about getting a Versi color. Go figure.

 

[SpookySpooder]

No worries fellas. At this point my focus is on keeping this one alive and possibly improving its condition.

I fed everything else yesterday and had a few molts. The other versicolor is doing fine, it's as motivated by food as my P. irminias. My Avic M2 just molted today. Also have a couple of Avic M1 slings in premolt.

Hoping this one can turn it around, right now it just sits in one spot slowly twitching.

 

[MariaLewisia]

I've been following this thread from the start and have been hesitant to post my own personal experience and the experience of a friend of mine. Both are mere speculations with vague connections, but I think that by now, we've come to the conclusion that speculate is all we can do at this point (and, honestly, that's what we do in most other cases as well).

I personally experienced something similar myself some years ago with a sling when I received a package where the heatpack had malfunctioned mid transit. It was barely lukewarm when I opened it and luckily the large (expensive...) juveniles were fine. The tiny C. sp. Hati Hati however was barely clinging on to life. It was in a death curl and I immediately gave it water which it drank and perked up. What followed was several weeks of it drinking, perking up and moving away, only to be in a death curl by the next morning. It was actually quite awful seeing it struggle like that. Eventually it passed and I could breathe a sigh of relief and bury the poor thing. That's story number one.

The other happened to a friend of mine just a month ago. He had received an Avic avic that acted strange when it arrived. Barely ate, was lethargic at times, didn't want to spin any webbing. After a moult it was in a death curl. He rehydrated it and it drank loads and was, like yours and mine, perking up after every drink and even able to move by itself, albeit slowly and sometimes wobbly, only to go back into the death curl less than 12 hours later. Eventually he thought he had resurrected it enough that it could eat but all tries failed and eventually it just perished.

So. Time for some very heavy speculation and thoughts that you should take with a great pinch of salt. Might be useful, might be total bull, but in the end none of us are experts in the tarantula physiological department so here we go:

In my case the sling more than likely suffered from hypothermia due to the heatpack malfunction. Hypothermia as well as hyperthermia seems to damage the nervous system in spiders, which in turn makes them unable to control internal functions, and/or it might trigger some form of irreversible diapause sort of state. Both of these things would explain the slight perk from consuming water. In the case of the former (damage to nervous system) the increased liquid could help weakened heart muscle/impulses and increase blood flow, perking the spider up. In the latter (forced diapause) it might trigger some sort of temporary metabolism response and it gets out of the slow state it's in for just a moment.

In the case of my friend's spider, I wonder if something happened in transit as well. That, or some sort of "failure to thrive" (aka. genetic mutation tomfoolery) situation. Either way, something was not right internally with this sling. It was just "right" enough to survive, but wrong enough that it couldn't do it for long. Like what I've just said in the paragraph above I can't stop thinking about the perking up after drinking. Something has to be happening internally that makes the spider able to function for at least a little while. Death curls occur because the hydraulic pressure stops, either because their "brain" stops sending out electric impulses, or something makes the heart physically unable to beat. Could damage to other organs cause this as well? Could it be only genetic mishaps? Could something happen internally that we are totally unable to see, like some sort of infection or cancer, that is more prevalent in these species than in others?

I could speculate for an age and a half and still be no closer to a conclusion. What I mean to say with this long and rambly (sorry) post is that I've seen similar situations irl where slings behave just like this where there is little to no obvious cause and where the fault is definitely not on the keeper's part. I know many have already told you this but don't blame yourself. And don't fret if there is no obvious answer. Tarantulas are mysterious to, well, everyone. We know so much yet so little about them. When we know more we can look back and think of our mistakes but for now we can just try and observe any patterns when these things happen... which is why I posted this long freaking storytime lol. Ok enough writing, my thumbs are begging me to stop typing.

 

[CrazyOrnithoctonineGuy]

Tbh ever since I got into the hobby I've read a ton about people having issues with them and I have hesitated myself buying one. I'm all about moisturizer dependant asian spider's but hesitant about getting a Versi color. Go figure.

I do think what some folks here have said about inbreeding and some slings just not being viable might play a role, especially because this has been an issue where I live.

I've kept avics (the dead Versi, my current Versi, and two A. avic M6 slings) similarly to the OP-lateral ventilation bottom and top, substrate a bit moist but not as moist as with Asian arboreals, etc. Only that first versi had issues.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

I do think what some folks here have said about inbreeding and some slings just not being viable might play a role, especially because this has been an issue where I live.

I've kept avics (the dead Versi, my current Versi, and two A. avic M6 slings) similarly to the OP-lateral ventilation bottom and top, substrate a bit moist but not as moist as with Asian arboreals, etc. Only that first versi had issues.

I had some I lost to possibly dehydration and others just had weak genetics and never thrived.. possibly I just ran out of money couldn’t buy enough slings so I had too small of a sample size. My current slings are doing fine but there a few molts from juvys size . Best of luck to anyone raising slings I’ll probably get more lasiodoras when I find a job. I may have to sneak them in. 11 of my Ts were raised from tiny slings.

 

[Dry Desert]

I've been following this thread from the start and have been hesitant to post my own personal experience and the experience of a friend of mine. Both are mere speculations with vague connections, but I think that by now, we've come to the conclusion that speculate is all we can do at this point (and, honestly, that's what we do in most other cases as well).

I personally experienced something similar myself some years ago with a sling when I received a package where the heatpack had malfunctioned mid transit. It was barely lukewarm when I opened it and luckily the large (expensive...) juveniles were fine. The tiny C. sp. Hati Hati however was barely clinging on to life. It was in a death curl and I immediately gave it water which it drank and perked up. What followed was several weeks of it drinking, perking up and moving away, only to be in a death curl by the next morning. It was actually quite awful seeing it struggle like that. Eventually it passed and I could breathe a sigh of relief and bury the poor thing. That's story number one.

The other happened to a friend of mine just a month ago. He had received an Avic avic that acted strange when it arrived. Barely ate, was lethargic at times, didn't want to spin any webbing. After a moult it was in a death curl. He rehydrated it and it drank loads and was, like yours and mine, perking up after every drink and even able to move by itself, albeit slowly and sometimes wobbly, only to go back into the death curl less than 12 hours later. Eventually he thought he had resurrected it enough that it could eat but all tries failed and eventually it just perished.

So. Time for some very heavy speculation and thoughts that you should take with a great pinch of salt. Might be useful, might be total bull, but in the end none of us are experts in the tarantula physiological department so here we go:

In my case the sling more than likely suffered from hypothermia due to the heatpack malfunction. Hypothermia as well as hyperthermia seems to damage the nervous system in spiders, which in turn makes them unable to control internal functions, and/or it might trigger some form of irreversible diapause sort of state. Both of these things would explain the slight perk from consuming water. In the case of the former (damage to nervous system) the increased liquid could help weakened heart muscle/impulses and increase blood flow, perking the spider up. In the latter (forced diapause) it might trigger some sort of temporary metabolism response and it gets out of the slow state it's in for just a moment.

In the case of my friend's spider, I wonder if something happened in transit as well. That, or some sort of "failure to thrive" (aka. genetic mutation tomfoolery) situation. Either way, something was not right internally with this sling. It was just "right" enough to survive, but wrong enough that it couldn't do it for long. Like what I've just said in the paragraph above I can't stop thinking about the perking up after drinking. Something has to be happening internally that makes the spider able to function for at least a little while. Death curls occur because the hydraulic pressure stops, either because their "brain" stops sending out electric impulses, or something makes the heart physically unable to beat. Could damage to other organs cause this as well? Could it be only genetic mishaps? Could something happen internally that we are totally unable to see, like some sort of infection or cancer, that is more prevalent in these species than in others?

I could speculate for an age and a half and still be no closer to a conclusion. What I mean to say with this long and rambly (sorry) post is that I've seen similar situations irl where slings behave just like this where there is little to no obvious cause and where the fault is definitely not on the keeper's part. I know many have already told you this but don't blame yourself. And don't fret if there is no obvious answer. Tarantulas are mysterious to, well, everyone. We know so much yet so little about them. When we know more we can look back and think of our mistakes but for now we can just try and observe any patterns when these things happen... which is why I posted this long freaking storytime lol. Ok enough writing, my thumbs are begging me to stop typing.

You have quoted two cases of slings perking up / drinking loads after a molt etc.

The water given is not a magic potion, it's what's essentially needed by a badly dehydrated creature to enable it to hopefully carry on.

Nothing gets hotter than the worlds deserts where most of the arid scorpions live, they will obtain some moisture from their prey, but given water they will drink copious amounts TO STAY HYDRATED AND MOLT SUCCESSFULLY.

Maybe with inverts once dehydrated to a certain level they cannot fully recover, but their instincts tell them to drink, even though they are weak and in a state of near death their instincts tell them .

How many more cases of " I dropped some water onto its fangs and it's perked up"

Or,

"It had a bad molt, but it's drinking now and seems okay".

Maybe why doctors recommend several pints of water per day, and drink more when it's hot or you feel dizzy.

Can't see it any different for other of earth's inhabitants.

Also, why do many people's first line for recovery turn to ICU, where it's warmer and moist - to rehydrate.

Also @SpookySpooder

I've researched going back years and there was a case where a German with the same sling problem as well as giving water, also increased the temperature considerably, higher than the normal higher range.
Maybe why your sling was pressing itself flat against the palm of your hand, trying to get that extra warmth.

 

[SpookySpooder]

I've researched going back years and there was a case where a German with the same sling problem as well as giving water, also increased the temperature considerably, higher than the normal higher range.
Maybe why your sling was pressing itself flat against the palm of your hand, trying to get that extra warmth.

Do you recall the temperature range he raised it to? Or perhaps where you did the reading?

Asking for a friend.

 

[Dry Desert]

Do you recall the temperature range he raised it to? Or perhaps where you did the reading?

Asking for a friend.

I'll have to back track and see where I saw it.