US government moves to ban all pythons and boas

[Tleilaxu]

http://www.pethobbyist.com/sitenews/index....thons-Boas.html

Please take action in a positive manner to prevent the extremely excessive bill from passing.

All python and boa owners will be gravely asffected and our beloved snakes will be no more.

 

[aracnochicken]

leave it to the government to screw up yet another good thing. Wonder how long it'll take them to realize Taranula's (and others) are being shipped too ?

 

[Mushroom Spore]

Check again - they ARE NOT BANNING PYTHONS AND BOAS. They are looking to ban "the importation and interstate transport" of these animals. Now, interstate transport will suck for the hobby, sure. But I think we can all agree that stopping the heinously cruel treatment routinely given to wild-caught imports that end up in pet stores is hardly a bad thing. If I never see another ball python baby dying of malnutrition and parasites in the local PetCo ever again, I can die happy.

They're not going to come into your home and take your animals.

There are already private breeders in nearly every state, I'd wager, and if pet stores are forbidden to deal in WC animals anymore, more private breeders will arise to meet the need. You can still get snakes. Captive-bred snakes at that!

 

[bugmankeith]

I think it will be better for the snakes, alot of wild caught die.

I'd rather have a captive bred pet than one taken from the wild who suffered and has many health issues, not to mention was taken from it's home.

 

[Tleilaxu]

Well I am definetly going to protest this somehow. The government needs to stay out of the hobby, its up to US the hobbyists to ensure that the animals imported are treated humanly. The government has no clue how to do this in a proper manner, and banning interestate travel is also unacceptable, How am I going to move MY python into other states should I move?

 

[dtknow]

This is going to really mess up breeders. What i find interesting is so far only 3 genuses are going to be covered. So all boids is a bitof an extreme interpretation.

 

[Tleilaxu]

This is going to really mess up breeders.

I know thats why you need to spread the word, inform your favorite breeders and petstores, we need to mobilize so this does not come to pass.

 

[Mushroom Spore]

The government needs to stay out of the hobby, its up to US the hobbyists to ensure that the animals imported are treated humanly.

Yeah, we've done a great job of that so far. Annoyed reptile hobbyists have little real voice when it comes to how much money PetCo can make selling their overpriced WC babies (and hot rocks) to any idiot that walks into the store.

The government has no clue how to do this in a proper manner

If they ban importation, I'd say that about covers it. There's no reason to import anyway, given that we have plenty of snakes to breed now and need not continue the animal abuse involved in mass wildcaught businesses.

and banning interestate travel is also unacceptable, How am I going to move MY python into other states should I move?

The interstate travel is admittedly troublesome. But at the same time, I do not think they're going to stop your car when you cross the state line to ask if you have a snake in a plastic tub under your back seat.

Interstate travel will probably only greatly inconvenience the practice of private breeders sending by mail (which I don't like to lose, but I don't think it will kill us). Remember, with wild-caughts banned, private breeders will be the only game in town in their respective states. They won't go out of business.

There's also the mass transport of WC snakes once they've been brought into the country, or other pet-store-big-business "let's move our product" crap, but I for one don't really care about their convenience.

 

[NastyNate]

i think this is a good thing,one for the snakes. this could end the suffering of imported snakes that come in the usa everyday that are mistreated and unhealthy.2 this is good for breeders and people like myself who are interested in getting into the scene of breeding and selling snakes tarantulas etc.if imported animals were banned the demand of breeders would increase incredibly and not to sound selfish but breeders could make a good profit of this. its also a bad thing if new species are found and now you cant import them to breed an introduce into the hobby, like people have already said i wouldnt mind not seeing 10in bps at petco that look under fed and dehydrated.

 

[Tleilaxu]

You made some excellent points there though I disagree with this one:

If they ban importation, I'd say that about covers it. There's no reason to import anyway, given that we have plenty of snakes to breed now and need not continue the animal abuse involved in mass wildcaught businesses.

I believe we need importantion for several reasons; 1. To ensure a wide genetic variety in our herps. 2. Some snakes are not being bred readily and further numbers are needed. While I agree mass imporation is not good, regulated limited importation of all herps is nessesary IMO. 3. If new species are found they will be unavailible to the hobbyist.

@NastyNate How do you plan to make money if you cant move your product anywhere? I doubt state wide business will support you.

Tarantulas ans scorps are next BTW... you just wait.

 

[RhettusMaximus]

kiss 'em goodbye

you can pretty much kiss any big Reptile Convention goodbye if this happens.. you guys all know how many snake breeders go are part of those conventions. Not to say all snake breeders breed boas or pythons but they are a HUGE part of reptile shows.. NARBC and others of similar nature....

 

[Mushroom Spore]

1. To ensure a wide genetic variety in our herps.

As many as there are now, I'd find it hard to believe we DON'T have genetic variety available right here. I am of course not a breeder or geneticist, I just know there's a heck of a lot of reptiles to go around.

2. Some snakes are not being bred readily and further numbers are needed. While I agree mass imporation is not good, regulated limited importation of all herps is nessesary IMO. 3. If new species are found they will be unavailible to the hobbyist.

For this, I suggest everyone download the pdf of the actual government papers:

Permits may be issued for scientific, medical, educational, or zoological purposes.

It would be difficult, but I'm sure legit ways could be found to get new species in - safely and without the damage caused by mass WC business.

Tarantulas ans scorps are next BTW... you just wait.

Let's not scaremonger. If you read the report, they want these snakes controlled because people are dumping them into the USA's natural ecosystems. Florida's already a mess and the government has a problem with that, understandably.

When people dump thousands of G. rosea into the wild and they start destroying native ecosystems, then we can start waving the OUR SPIDERS ARE NEXT flag.

 

[Tleilaxu]

As many as there are now, I'd find it hard to believe we DON'T have genetic variety available right here. I am of course not a breeder or geneticist, I just know there's a heck of a lot of reptiles to go around.

I will give you a case and point. In the bird hobby there are NO 100% pure "wild" cockatiels anymore. They have al been bred indiscriminantly to make other color strains and what not, now while the main wild color type still exists genetically that bird cannot be traced back to its native oridgans.

Again more excellent points.

Here:
http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main?main=SubmitComment&o=09000064803a565f

You can directly post your comments on this government site. Do your part to defend our hobby!

 

[pitbulllady]

i think this is a good thing,one for the snakes. this could end the suffering of imported snakes that come in the usa everyday that are mistreated and unhealthy.2 this is good for breeders and people like myself who are interested in getting into the scene of breeding and selling snakes tarantulas etc.if imported animals were banned the demand of breeders would increase incredibly and not to sound selfish but breeders could make a good profit of this. its also a bad thing if new species are found and now you cant import them to breed an introduce into the hobby, like people have already said i wouldnt mind not seeing 10in bps at petco that look under fed and dehydrated.

This is NOT, in any way, a "good thing" for snakes, or for snake breeders. The herp community, like the dog, cat, horse, and livestock breeders, depends on being able to sell animals out-of-state, since most states do NOT have sufficient demand for such animals to support breeders. Not only that, but sites such as Kingsnake.com, which depend on advertisements purchased by reptile breeders, would dry up, due to lack of advertising, if no one could sell such animals to buyers in other states. You also would not be able to travel across state lines with a boa or python; if you moved out of state, or traveled there temporarily, you would not be able to take a pet boa or python and in the case of a move, would be forced to give it up. Reptile shows(where many of us obtain our tarantulas and other inverts) would become a thing of the past, since most vendors sell boas and pythons of some sort, and most travel from other states to attend. And you can rest assured that the Feds will NOT stop with boas and pythons, but will no doubt include many lizards, such as iguanas, monitors and Beardies in their next round. The herp hobby will virtually dry up, due to lack of available outlets/sources for many of the animals that make up the "backbone" of herpetoculture. And of course, as even you've pointed out, this would severely limit the gene pools of many species, since there would no longer be the opportunity to import new bloodlines. As for PetCo, it would only mean that they'd switch to selling, killing and providing false information about native snakes, instead of Ball Pythons. It's THEIR lack of information or care, not the fact that these are pythons, that results in their animals dying!

pitbulllady

 

[Tleilaxu]

This is NOT, in any way, a "good thing" for snakes, or for snake breeders. The herp community, like the dog, cat, horse, and livestock breeders, depends on being able to sell animals out-of-state, since most states do NOT have sufficient demand for such animals to support breeders. Not only that, but sites such as Kingsnake.com, which depend on advertisements purchased by reptile breeders, would dry up, due to lack of advertising, if no one could sell such animals to buyers in other states. You also would not be able to travel across state lines with a boa or python; if you moved out of state, or traveled there temporarily, you would not be able to take a pet boa or python and in the case of a move, would be forced to give it up. Reptile shows(where many of us obtain our tarantulas and other inverts) would become a thing of the past, since most vendors sell boas and pythons of some sort, and most travel from other states to attend. And you can rest assured that the Feds will NOT stop with boas and pythons, but will no doubt include many lizards, such as iguanas, monitors and Beardies in their next round. The herp hobby will virtually dry up, due to lack of available outlets/sources for many of the animals that make up the "backbone" of herpetoculture. And of course, as even you've pointed out, this would severely limit the gene pools of many species, since there would no longer be the opportunity to import new bloodlines. As for PetCo, it would only mean that they'd switch to selling, killing and providing false information about native snakes, instead of Ball Pythons. It's THEIR lack of information or care, not the fact that these are pythons, that results in their animals dying!

pitbulllady

You should send that here:
http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main?main=SubmitComment&o=09000064803a565f

This is the OFFICIAL site where the government MAy actually read these comments.

 

[Mushroom Spore]

Reptile shows(where many of us obtain our tarantulas and other inverts) would become a thing of the past, since most vendors sell boas and pythons of some sort, and most travel from other states to attend.

Boas and pythons are hardly the majority of animals sold at these shows, why would the shows stop entirely because of this?

And you can rest assured that the Feds will NOT stop with boas and pythons, but will no doubt include many lizards, such as iguanas, monitors and Beardies in their next round.

Woah, woah, WOAH.

To quote myself:

Let's not scaremonger. If you read the report, they want these snakes controlled because people are dumping them into the USA's natural ecosystems. Florida's already a mess and the government has a problem with that, understandably.

When people dump thousands of G. rosea into the wild and they start destroying native ecosystems, then we can start waving the OUR SPIDERS ARE NEXT flag.

The Feds are not out to get us. They are not wringing their hands and cackling over ways to make people who own reptiles cry. They are trying to put some regulations in place to control a class of very large animal that is wrecking ecosystems in this country because people are dumping them by the hundreds.

They are not going to ban bearded dragons. Just stop. Stirring up panic with slippery-slope arguments helps nobody.

As for PetCo, it would only mean that they'd switch to selling, killing and providing false information about native snakes, instead of Ball Pythons. It's THEIR lack of information or care, not the fact that these are pythons, that results in their animals dying!

PetCo and other large chains will always be mistreating animals for as long as it profits them or they are permitted to sell animals. However, banning the importation of wild-caught boas and pythons will cut out a chunk of such abuse (as well as what they endure while being wild-caught and then shipped overseas), and at this point I'll gladly take what I can get.

Banning the importation of WC ball pythons alone will end a huge amount of animal abuse right there, since they are in my experience the single most massively-imported and mistreated snake on the market.

 

[pitbulllady]

Boas and pythons are hardly the majority of animals sold at these shows, why would the shows stop entirely because of this?



Woah, woah, WOAH.

To quote myself:

The Feds are not out to get us. They are not wringing their hands and cackling over ways to make people who own reptiles cry. They are trying to put some regulations in place to control a class of very large animal that is wrecking ecosystems in this country because people are dumping them by the hundreds.

They are not going to ban bearded dragons. Just stop. Stirring up panic with slippery-slope arguments helps nobody.



PetCo and other large chains will always be mistreating animals for as long as it profits them or they are permitted to sell animals. However, banning the importation of wild-caught boas and pythons will cut out a chunk of such abuse (as well as what they endure while being wild-caught and then shipped overseas), and at this point I'll gladly take what I can get.

Banning the importation of WC ball pythons alone will end a huge amount of animal abuse right there, since they are in my experience the single most massively-imported and mistreated snake on the market.

I don't know what reptile shows YOU attend, MS, but in every single one held in the Carolinas, and most especially in Georgia, where the sale/ownership of any native snakes species, even captive-bred mutations like Snow Corns, is banned, boas and pythons make up well over 50 percent of snakes being sold. Take those out of the equation, and what's left?

All of this is no doubt a move to appease the folks down in Florida, where the invasion of exotic large boids has been headline news. However, Florida is a unique situation, with regards to exotic tropical species establishing themselves. There, the concern is not just with pythons, such as Burms, but also with iguanas and Nile monitors, so it would not surprise me to see many lizard species eventually added to the Lacey Act, in spite of the fact that few could establish themselves outside of a few unique areas. Someone on another board made the point that throughout ALL of the country, not just south Florida, or AZ, cats and dogs have certainly established free-ranging populations, yet of course, no one makes any move to regulate the interstate travel of those. Each year, according to the USDA, shelters(not breeders, shelters)import 300,000 puppies from other countries, which has in recent months resulted in canine rabies, once believed eradicated, brought back to this country. But, it's easier to go after animals that the public perceives as "bad" or "scary", like snakes, isn't it? And, do you really want to believe that groups like the API and PETA aren't behind this, with all their money? Stop and look at the big picture, from BSL to mandatory spay/neuter laws, to pet limit laws, to exotic bans and restrictions from the Federal level on down, and if you still fail to see this as just one part-a rather BIG part-of a concerted effort to end the trade in and ownership of animals, you need to see an eye doctor right away about that inability to see The Big Picture!

pitbulllady

 

[jenniferinny]

I have no problem with placing limits on wild caught imports. Do we still need some wild caught imports? Yes. But limiting already common species like Ball Pythons so that not every single ball sold in a chain store is wild caught would be good for those of us that captive breed.. I would love to not see exclusively wild caught in most local pet stores.
That though, is not what this bill is about. If you read it, then you know that they are concerned about the introduction of nonnative species of wild life into areas where they may survive. To control and eventually get rid of snakes, they will ban interstate transport which will stop people from obtaining one if they live in a rural area. It will stop people from breeding them because they can not sell enough locally. It will stop them from being available in large pet stores that rely on buying in mass quantity from breeders that ship to them.
This is a quiet way of putting reptile breeders and keepers into a strangle hold. They start with larger snakes today and if this passes, tomorrow it will be larger colubrids. Why? They aren't trying to pass this on the basis of human safety, they are passing it on the basis of wildlife safety. Well then, why aren't they banning cats? Feral cats cause more wildlife destruction then all the loose iguanas in Florida. They eat more then any snake does as they need to kill on a daily basis.
This is an example of legislation pushed by animal rights groups to slowly ban pet keeping. They are doing it with dogs too, like pit bulls. Why? If they can ban one breed of dog today, they can ban another dog tomorrow. All they have to do is malign a breeds reputation and ban it next on the same principle they used to ban pit bulls. There are counties that have banned all short nosed dogs including English bulldogs that are rarely involved in altercations.
I do not believe that the rights of the majority should be taken away because of the opinion and poor actions of the minority. Heck, I can go out and buy a gun that will kill people but I can no longer own a snake longer then 8 feet where I live. More people die every year choking to death on hot dogs then are killed by all pets combined. But, I can't own an adult boa constrictor constrictor that hasn't caused a single human death.
This bill is not about protecting snakes or the environment. It is about eliminating pet keeping starting with the ones that are easiest to negatively manipulate in the media. If it was about protecting the environment, then it would first be focused on the pet species that do the most harm, dogs and cats left out to roam. They know that would never fly. The point of this bill is to create a principle. Any animal released into the environment could cause problems. If they can ban the large ones on that principle, the smaller ones will be next.
I am all for legislation that encourages responsible pet ownership and punishes the irresponsible. I would have no problem with being required to microchip my pets so that if some idiot lets their snake loose they can find out who owned it and fine the heck out of him. I think anyone that releases non native wildlife should be punished. I don't think that every responsible person that keeps pets should be punished because a couple idiots release there pets and some other activists with signs think they have a right to control everyone else's lives..
This law sets a precedent for the banning of all reptiles as pets by stifling the trade and sale of them.
If I want a healthy, captive bred snake, I have to order it from another state. How do I get one if this bill passes? Oh yeah, I don't.
Edited to add, these people spend most of their donated money advertising themselves and pushing legislation. 80 million a year..
http://www.peta.org/campaigns/ar-petaonpets.asp
"We at PETA very much love the animal companions who share our homes, but we believe that it would have been in the animals' best interests if the institution of "pet keeping"—i.e., breeding animals to be kept and regarded as "pets"—never existed."
http://www.peta.org/about/hottopic007.asp
"PETA supports legislation that bans the breeding of pit bulls, just as we support any spay/neuter legislation as the most effective way to combat the tragic companion animal overpopulation problem. We also support pit bull bans"
http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID=9
"It is a harsh fact that most reptiles are carnivores—do you really want your freezer full of dead animals? In all, costs for food, an enclosure, lighting, and vet bills can total hundreds of dollars per year. Purchasing a reptile caught in his or her natural habitat encourages the removal of wildlife from delicate ecosystems. Buying captive-bred animals only encourages breeders to replenish their stock. If you must have a reptile as a companion animal, please consider adopting one from a local shelter or rescue group. "
Also, check out HSUS that condemns ALL reptiles as pets including captive bred ones..
http://www.hsus.org/wildlife/issues_facing_wildlife/wildlife_trade/live_reptile_trade/
They even tried to ban reptiles back in 2001 and I have no doubt that they are financing this one too..
http://www.wnyherp.org/resources/legal-issues/HSUSBan.php
"The Humane Society of the United States urges federal and state regulatory agencies to put an end to the reptile trade for the sake of public health, the safety of the nation's livestock and wildlife, and because of growing conservation concerns"

This is nothing more then a gradual effort to ban reptiles and anyone that can't see that is blind and uninformed..
Here's a great article by Kathy Love a well known corn snake breeder on the topic..
http://www.cornutopia.com/Corn Utop...G ENEMY Cornutopia corn snakes cornsnakes.htm

 

[Tleilaxu]

UPDATE! Please read!

As the Federal Register outlines, only comments submitted in the format that they have specified will be reviewed. Comments on message boards, BLOGs, and petitions will not be accepted or reviewed. We recommend that everyone focus their efforts on submitting comments using the required procedure rather than methods that will not produce tangible results. Individuals and businesses may submit their comments at http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main?main=SubmitComment&o=09000064803a565f.

 

[Mushroom Spore]

I'm just going to say the following and then I think I'll have said all I have to say.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope