T's in Florida?

[Biollantefan54]

I hate them so much, if I was the mayor or president, I would make a law. All cats and dogs caught roaming the streets outside of a house without a collar, would be taken to a shelter. If they don't get adopted in 24 hours, they get put down. The fact is there is way to many of them and they cause to many problems. They don't do this already because they are cute and adorable.

 

[BobGrill]

I hate them so much, if I was the mayor or president, I would make a law. All cats and dogs caught roaming the streets outside of a house without a collar, would be taken to a shelter. If they don't get adopted in 24 hours, they get put down. The fact is there is way to many of them and they cause to many problems. They don't do this already because they are cute and adorable.

Alright calm down man.... I think that's a bit excessive but I'm not going to bother arguing with you.

Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2

 

[dementedlullaby]

So the numerous Caribbean species of plants and animals that happened to have been introduced to the Gulf coast states via hurricanes: do they 'belong' here or not? Who determines what's 'supposed' to be here, and what's the criteria used? Things aren't always as black and white as some would have us believe.

Oh I wasn't aware we were changing the topic to Caribbean species. Carry on.

>_>

 

[Biollantefan54]

Excessive would be killing them on the spot or torturing them. I love *indoor* cats. Once they start killing everything, they turn into a biological disaster. I really don't see how saving hundreds of species from extinction by an invasive predator is considered excessive.

 

[Poec54]

I hate them so much, if I was the mayor or president, I would make a law. All cats and dogs caught roaming the streets outside of a house without a collar, would be taken to a shelter. If they don't get adopted in 24 hours, they get put down.

There's an animal lover; looking forward to your next tirade. Perhaps we should euthanize people too? There's too many of them.

 

[Biollantefan54]

I wouldn't call it a tirade and your not an animal lover if you only like cats and dogs. And humans are another story but nothing is going to change because of stupidity. If you have a pet, at least keep it inside.

 

[vespers]

Perhaps we should euthanize people too? There's too many of them.

Now we're talking! :laugh:

 

[timisimaginary]

euthanization is going too far, but i think it's perfectly ok to take a human being out of the wild and put them in a jar in your basement.
but only if that person is non-native to the area.

 

[Poec54]

your not an animal lover if you only like cats and dogs.

I'm on this forum, remember?

---------- Post added 06-18-2014 at 05:23 PM ----------

i think it's perfectly ok to take a human being out of the wild and put them in a jar in your basement.
but only if that person is non-native to the area.

Oh, like northerners down here during tourist season? The ones with the sunburns, clutching maps, and holding up traffic?

 

[klawfran3]

I hate them so much, if I was the mayor or president, I would make a law. All cats and dogs caught roaming the streets outside of a house without a collar, would be taken to a shelter. If they don't get adopted in 24 hours, they get put down. The fact is there is way to many of them and they cause to many problems. They don't do this already because they are cute and adorable.

what about lost pets? I know that even though some dogs are chipped, the shelters are either too lazy or too busy to do a legitimate scan for one and miss them often. you're be killing peoples pets left and right dude.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

There are so many points I want to touch on that I can't reply with quotes on all of them so I will keep it broad. On the topic of whether the B. vagans in Florida poses a hazard to the Florida ecosystem, I think we need to all stop and say "I don't know." We can all speculate, but I don't know about any long term ecological studies done on tarantulas in general or any that touches on what an introduced non-native species does to an ecosystem. As I understand their lifespans are far too long for such a study. My point of view is such that at this time, I don't believe B. vagans poses any ecological danger to Florida, but in time, it certainly might. What is known about tarantula ecology is that they basically stay in a small area (which is a subjective statement nonetheless) for most of their life. This is due to their long life spans and slow dispersal rates of the young. The young Mygalomorps, unlike the Araneomorps, has to walk to disperse instead of using a more efficient means such as ballooning. Thus, it may take many decades for a thriving non-native B. vagans group to disperse to a larger area in Florida. Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, an orange grove is a man-made area used for farming oranges and is not necessarily "wild Florida." Being as such, can anyone say for certain B. vagans can survive outside of an orange grove? Have they already spread to native ecosystems? These are not rhetorical questions, I really don't know. What I can say for certain though is that using native Aphonopelma hentzi living in my own neighborhood for comparison, is that tarantulas thrive in man-made and man-maintained areas. There is a constant supply of food and fresh water and they are protected from the hostility of "the wild." If the same is true in a Florida orange grove with B. vagans, then yes their numbers will continue to increase and will eventually disperse to the natural ecosystems. Whether or not they continue to thrive and become invasive, we can only speculate on. My opinion is that tarantulas are very resilient creatures and I think B. vagans has the potential to increase their populations because they are found in the tropics natively in Mexico and Central America; their natural distribution is huge. But whether they will eventually pose a hazard to the native ecosystems because they are not native, I don't know. I say when it comes to the introduction of a non-native species to an ecosystem, it's better to play it safe. Besides, we are talking about the irresponsibility of an exotic pet owner who put them there in the first place which justifies my position of collecting them all without guilt.

As far as collecting Caribbean tarantulas, being on islands, to protect them from hurricanes and other natural disasters, give me a break. Tarantulas and other Mygalomorph spiders have been on this planet for tens of millions of years and have survived natural disasters without people's help. They don't need our help to survive and could do it better without us. It's good-guy statements like those that irritate me. If tarantulas or any other animal can't continue to survive in it's environment, then natural selection made it's choice. People shouldn't be out there destroying the environment firstly and people shouldn't be out there trying to protect animals from nature either.

 

[Poec54]

As far as collecting Caribbean tarantulas, being on islands, to protect them from hurricanes and other natural disasters, give me a break. Tarantulas and other Mygalomorph spiders have been on this planet for tens of millions of years and have survived natural disasters without people's help. They don't need our help to survive and could do it better without us. It's good-guy statements like those that irritate me. If tarantulas or any other animal can't continue to survive in it's environment, then natural selection made it's choice.

And you personally know how many species have perished from hurricanes over the years? And apparently they deserved that from those fluke storms? The irritation works both ways.

I think it would be nice if no more tarantulas species went extinct for the time being (considering how many millions of acres we've destroyed in the last 100 years), and at least not until we can name them and get their taxonomy figured out. Tarantulas as a family don't need human intervention, but certain species do.

 

[Biollantefan54]

I'm sorry but if you cant put a collar as identification on your pet, that's on you. That's all I have to say.

 

[freedumbdclxvi]

people shouldn't be out there trying to protect animals from nature either.

I have to disagree with this portion here. If there is a species on the verge of extinction, natural or man created, we *should* step in to preserve the species.

 

[Python]

From a cosmic perspective, it doesn't matter what we do. This planet was doing fine for billions of years before us and will continue to do fine long after we are gone. Taking a spider out of a hole here and there won't cause our sun to go supernova and protecting a species from extinction certainly won't stop the next giant asteroid from flash boiling the Pacific. What we do only matters on a very localized scale. There are more species that went extinct before we ever existed than any of us will ever get to see. If it makes you feel good, intervene. Don't do it out of some misplaced idea that what one person does will save a species or cause its immediate annihilation. There is nothing you or anyone else can do to prevent species from spreading. They are all endemic to the same planet and as such, they belong wherever they are found. Everything is introduced somehow or another.

Take the spiders, don't take the spiders, in the end, what is the total influence on the area where they live or the species as a whole?

 

[Poec54]

I have to disagree with this portion here. If there is a species on the verge of extinction, natural or man created, we *should* step in to preserve the species.

Thank you. We have messed up so much of this planet in a short amount of time, we really have an obligation to preserve what's left of it. We tip things off balance on a global scale and then sit back and pretend we have no responsibility for the outcome? If at some point in the future we can lower our 'footprint' then maybe we won't need to protect as much of it. One could argue that some of the ferocity and frequency of recent hurricanes (especially 2004-2005) has been increased somewhat by global warming, of which we're an undetermined part (which have also raged thru the Pacific. Who knows what species were wiped out in the Philippines). All we seem to care about with hurricanes is the loss of human life, which is considered tragic, while the loss of life of other species is fine... all depending on where the storm happened to wander and what luckless victims were in it's path. Wildfires are also 'natural', but with us altering so much of the landscape, it's not like what happens with them was not effected by our previous actions. With all the damage we've done, some species aren't always going to end up in the 'right' place; some plants and animal may only (or primarily) exist in captivity because of human activity, worsened by natural events, has made their survival in the wild fragile. Does that species no longer deserve to live anywhere because we messed things up in it's habitat, directly or indirectly?

 

[Kodi]

From a cosmic perspective, it doesn't matter what we do. This planet was doing fine for billions of years before us and will continue to do fine long after we are gone. Taking a spider out of a hole here and there won't cause our sun to go supernova and protecting a species from extinction certainly won't stop the next giant asteroid from flash boiling the Pacific. What we do only matters on a very localized scale. There are more species that went extinct before we ever existed than any of us will ever get to see. If it makes you feel good, intervene. Don't do it out of some misplaced idea that what one person does will save a species or cause its immediate annihilation. There is nothing you or anyone else can do to prevent species from spreading. They are all endemic to the same planet and as such, they belong wherever they are found. Everything is introduced somehow or another.

Take the spiders, don't take the spiders, in the end, what is the total influence on the area where they live or the species as a whole?

This is my favorite point of view. So simple, true, and agreeable.