T's in Florida?

[Python]

Asking permission is usually a successful way to go. I learned when metal detecting if you go up and ask the owner, more often than not they will give you free run of the place as long as you treat their property respectfully. Replace any dirt that you move, don't litter, in fact, a lot of the people I know carry bags with them and pick up trash as they find it and that makes it easier next time. A lot of geocachers do that as well I think. Anyway, it never hurts to knock on a door and ask.

 

[Philth]

If they are only found on that private property, how did they get there in the first place? Sorry if this has been covered a million times, I'm a bit out of the loop with the Florida population. Did the owner of the land release them? How long has the orange grove been there , compared to the spiders?

Later, Tom

 

[cold blood]

Here's a bit about these vagans in Florida from "Tarantulas and other arachnids":

"The Mexican redrump is the first tarantula known to be introduced into a new region by people. In 1997, a colony of these spiders was discovered in a citrus grove approx. 30 miles west of Fort Pierce, Florida. The state of Florida responded as they must when confronted by yet another exotic species within its boundaries by trying very hard to exterminate the tarantulas. However, despite some intensive insecticide applications, the tarantulas persist. I went to the site in 1999 and saw eight tarantulas. One female I collected had an egg sac. While it was very exciting to collect the tarantulas, it was also troubling to see yet another exotic species in the wild in Florida, a state already overrun with exotic plants and animals. While the Mexican redrump is unlikely to do any harm to the Florida environment because they are slow breeding and slow moving, some exotic species have not been so benign.

Rumors suggest that these spiders were intentionally introduced into the citrus groves as spiderlings hatching from eggs laid by females imported from Mexico for the pet trade in the 1970's"

 

[skippydude]

No one would complain if you went to Florida and collected Burmese Pythons

 

[dementedlullaby]

If a person does the exact same thing, it's horrible and those plants and animals are invasive and should be removed and/or killed. The logic gets pretty thin.

Not sure if srs.

 

[Poec54]

If they are only found on that private property, how did they get there in the first place? Sorry if this has been covered a million times, I'm a bit out of the loop with the Florida population. Did the owner of the land release them? How long has the orange grove been there , compared to the spiders?

Later, Tom

Unknown how they got in the orange grove, but they may have been there for decades. Small population that hasn't expanded, definitely not invasive. Certainly not worthy of the knee-jerk reaction to destroy them. Not every exotic down here takes over, in spite of what you may read in the papers. Many animals got loose during hurricane Andrew in the early 1990's when it hit a number of exotic animal importers. Most of those you don't hear about. There are native predators that prey on exotics. The biggest disruption to our native wildlife has been development and habitat loss.

 

[Kinkyskink]

In regards to the true spiders, they are plentiful. You can find lots of orbweavers, jumping spiders, and wolf spiders plus widows. An added bonus is that you usually don't have to go far to find them. I find jumping spiders on my patio all the time, sometimes even different color phases. I have been really tempted to scoop one up recently.

 

[freedumbdclxvi]

Unknown how they got in the orange grove, but they may have been there for decades. Small population that hasn't expanded, definitely not invasive. Certainly not worthy of the knee-jerk reaction to destroy them. Not every exotic down here takes over, in spite of what you may read in the papers. Many animals got loose during hurricane Andrew in the early 1990's when it hit a number of exotic animal importers. Most of those you don't hear about. There are native predators that prey on exotics. The biggest disruption to our native wildlife has been development and habitat loss.

I even doubt the high profile species (ie Burms) are as prolific as the media hypes them to be.

 

[scorpionchaos]

Media tends to make men into monsters and monsters into men

 

[awiec]

Unknown how they got in the orange grove, but they may have been there for decades. Small population that hasn't expanded, definitely not invasive. Certainly not worthy of the knee-jerk reaction to destroy them. Not every exotic down here takes over, in spite of what you may read in the papers. Many animals got loose during hurricane Andrew in the early 1990's when it hit a number of exotic animal importers. Most of those you don't hear about. There are native predators that prey on exotics. The biggest disruption to our native wildlife has been development and habitat loss.

There is a rule in biology that we use called the 10's Rule. As in 10% of all species imported escape into the wild, 10% of those that escape in the wild will survive well and 10% of those then become invasive/troublesome. So really you could bring 30,000 species into an area but maybe 2 or 3 will be worth trying to control. Tarantulas really lack all of the usual characteristics that most invasive species have, they grow slow, have a high mortality rate while young and there are plenty of generalist animals in Florida who would love to snack on a walking protein bar. Really I think tarantulas would be beneficial to certain areas as they, just like their true relatives, are good at pest control; of course I am not saying they should be introduced but that money could go towards better causes.

 

[Poec54]

Florida's surrounded by tarantulas: they're west of the Mississippi, and throughout the Bahamas. Maybe they were also native to Florida at one point when the the sea levels were lower. Since the vagans population on the east coast hasn't noticeably grown, they don't seem to have much impact on anything, except the media.

My comment about collecting Caribbean T species is from the perspective that at some point in the future, a number of species may only exist in captivity. With the Caribbean experiencing hurricanes for half the year, some of them major, it's possible for populations of island species to be decimated by powerful or lingering tropical storms. We are the stewards for tarantulas. No one else is going to make any meaningful effort to keep them alive. Zoos have their hands full with a handful of animals that the public finds appealing. Passing laws to ban exports, while locals slash and burn is typical of the convoluted logic of politicians. They feel good that they've 'done something.' Why aren't people allowed to rescue and/or relocate the plants and animals in areas being destroyed? In these days of prolific captive breeding, we don't need large quantities of wild caught animals. All we need are enough to get the species established for breeding.

 

[dementedlullaby]

Really I think tarantulas would be beneficial to certain areas as they, just like their true relatives, are good at pest control; of course I am not saying they should be introduced but that money could go towards better causes.

I'm not saying everyone should go squish the B. Vagans just because they're invasive but I think the true spiders are filling that niche of pest control fine without needing tarantulas to help ^_^.

It's interesting to note in Guam due to a species of snake escaping and eating a lot of the native birds that spiders seem to be breeding more prolifically and perhaps filling the role the birds played previously. Sad.


http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2012/09/16/spiders-take-control-as-birds-fade-from-guam/

I think the opening title is a bit sensationalist but it's still an interesting read and does speak about the perils of invasive species.

 

[awiec]

I'm not saying everyone should go squish the B. Vagans just because they're invasive but I think the true spiders are filling that niche of pest control fine without needing tarantulas to help ^_^.

It's interesting to note in Guam due to a species of snake escaping and eating a lot of the native birds that spiders seem to be breeding more prolifically and perhaps filling the role the birds played previously. Sad.


http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2012/09/16/spiders-take-control-as-birds-fade-from-guam/

I think the opening title is a bit sensationalist but it's still an interesting read and does speak about the perils of invasive species.

I'm part of a society that maps out where invasive species are in my native state, we note all invasive but many of them do not really spread or pose a major threat to the native wild life, like our tarantula friends in Florida. Our main targets are things like garlic mustard, dame's rocket and buck thorn which all are very prolific and can alter the composition of the soil, not things like tulips (which the tarantula is akin to in the Florida situation). The berm situation may not be as bad as the media portrays it but it is still an issue as they spread quickly and grow large fast; traits you can attribute to a "successful" invasive that should have some control measure put in place.

 

[Poec54]

the B. Vagans just because they're invasive.

They aren't 'invasive' by any stretch of the imagination, they're simply non-native. The invasive species that ruins most of their habitats is Homo sapiens.

 

[dementedlullaby]

I'm part of a society that maps out where invasive species are in my native state, we note all invasive but many of them do not really spread or pose a major threat to the native wild life, like our tarantula friends in Florida. Our main targets are things like garlic mustard, dame's rocket and buck thorn which all are very prolific and can alter the composition of the soil, not things like tulips (which the tarantula is akin to in the Florida situation). The berm situation may not be as bad as the media portrays it but it is still an issue as they spread quickly and grow large fast; traits you can attribute to a "successful" invasive that should have some control measure put in place.

Thank you for taking the time to do this! As can be seen with kudzu plants can be an incredibly bad invasive species. They also decimate the native habitat of other species. If you look at the giant squeaker frog an invasive weed has done a number on their natural habitat. But savethefrogs is replanting native trees (as we speak I believe) and educating the populace.

They aren't 'invasive' by any stretch of the imagination, they're simply non-native. The invasive species that ruins most of their habitats is Homo sapiens.

You got me! Fine, "non-native". Which still doesn't bring their status to belonging there by any stretch of the imagination .

 

[freedumbdclxvi]

I'm part of a society that maps out where invasive species are in my native state, we note all invasive but many of them do not really spread or pose a major threat to the native wild life, like our tarantula friends in Florida. Our main targets are things like garlic mustard, dame's rocket and buck thorn which all are very prolific and can alter the composition of the soil, not things like tulips (which the tarantula is akin to in the Florida situation). The berm situation may not be as bad as the media portrays it but it is still an issue as they spread quickly and grow large fast; traits you can attribute to a "successful" invasive that should have some control measure put in place.

Feral cats are a bigger issue than Burms. As for spreading, they can't spread much farther north without dying in the winter. The USGS survey stating otherwise is a pile of manure. The Burms are contained via climate, and nowhere near as prolific as made out to be.

 

[Biollantefan54]

I personally don't see the issue in taking a tarantula that is non-native to an area. They aren't suppose to be there anyways, no harm would be done taking one. And I hate feral cats so much. It is so hard to convince people that there favorite pet is an invasive species.

 

[Poec54]

a tarantula that is non-native to an area. They aren't suppose to be there anyways.

So the numerous Caribbean species of plants and animals that happened to have been introduced to the Gulf coast states via hurricanes: do they 'belong' here or not? Who determines what's 'supposed' to be here, and what's the criteria used? Things aren't always as black and white as some would have us believe.

 

[Biollantefan54]

Different organisms act differently in different environments. Technically, no they don't belong there but certain organisms may help or degrade the ecosystem or change nothing. If they help and have no adverse affects, obviously they should stay. And hurricanes have been going on for millions of years now in that area, I wouldn't be surprised if everything on those islands are not native there and not introduced via hurricane. But if a species is not impacting the ecosystem, why should it matter if someone takes one or two?

 

[awiec]

I personally don't see the issue in taking a tarantula that is non-native to an area. They aren't suppose to be there anyways, no harm would be done taking one. And I hate feral cats so much. It is so hard to convince people that there favorite pet is an invasive species.

As much as I enjoy all plants and animals feral cats and dogs are some of the most destructive animals that can be introduced in an area, especially islands. I had to put some feral cats down because they kept going after the song birds on my aunt's property and were harassing some of her chickens with young. Feral cats kill millions of native birds each year, putting pressure on some of the species that require old forest since those are disappearing rapidly; that is a species control program I can certainly get behind. I know local humane societies offer to spade and neuter ferals for free but they can be tricky to catch; I certainly try to catch as many as I can but I can't trap as many as I'd like.