Theraphosa spp. hybridization

[Andrew Clayton]

Yes mate but I’m not going to even try to hybrid yet I’m doing pure breeds for now

I thought no1 was going to

Have u not read anything I said it happend in 2009 I’m not explaining no more.

Contradiction much?

 

[Andrea82]

If u actually Read the post fully you would see I was on about when stirmi and blondi was classed the same ? Don’t come on posting here when you obv have not a clue what everyone is on about I’m on about back in the day 2009 some guy bred hybrid between blondi and stirmi he wasn’t a known guy he just bred them I’m not blaming anyone for breeding hybrids in this day and age I’m on about 10 years ago ya blonka you prob don’t even have acoustic about this sp anyway Americans usely don’t.

If you read my profile I'm not an American. And there is absolutely no need for the language. I specifically stated that esa space station mentioned them on European mainland. You're getting riled up over nothing.

 

[esa space station]

If you read my profile I'm not an American. And there is absolutely no need for the language. I specifically stated that esa space station mentioned them on European mainland. You're getting riled up over nothing.

Quite right i referred specifically to europe as im situated in U K as well as another member to avoid any confusion

What book..?

German book mate available off amazon or ebay used google translate its called riesenvogelspinnen theraphosa blondi&theraphosa apophysis great book if you want to get past language barrier

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Unfortunately in Europe things were messed up a bit, in the past, and with certain species. I know that we have (compared to the U.S) the best prices, a better availability/offer etc but we had (and have) a lot of hybrids T's that were in the market.

I'm the only one that remember what happened with Hysterocrates spp. years ago? They were so mutt that even a proper I.D was barely impossible.

 

[esa space station]

This is the first time I'm hearing from Theraphosa being hybridized in Europe.
Considering the almost fanatical perspective of German breeders I very much doubt they are intentionally breeding hybrids or even considering it. Dutch breeders is a no go as well since you would be outcast if you would even mention this to anyone anywhere.

Polish breeders however... I've not heard of intentionally breeding, but if there is some mix up going on, I can see it happening there.

But if this is true, it is just a very, very small fraction of people involved. The genus is just as clear as in the US, so I don't know where @Kieron2626123 and @esa space station getting their information from. I would like to see the pages you're referring to, along with other sources to back up both your claims please...

Its called research for a reason you.wont find this in conventional print! Go to rick c west google it and see images of theraphosa blondi yourself we are both situated in uk and do know from our own research what is accurate they didnt just appear they had to evolve .you dont think all animals are identical do you?

 

[cold blood]

Its called research for

Well this is a forum conversation, a place people go for research, so unless the condescension ends, this thread will be closed. (not saying anyone in specific, just in general we all need to play nice if we want to keep this discussion going forward).

Thank you.

 

[Kieron2626123]

Well this is a forum conversation, a place people go for research, so unless the condesention ends, this thread will be closed. (not saying anyone in specific, just in general we all need to play nice if we want to keep this discussion going forward).

Thank you.

Sorry about that
Ofc this thread needs to go on people don’t realise that animals evolve weather we like it or not there has been reports of Natural hybrids that’s a fact blondi stirmi and apophysis all live in the same area I know my blondi female responds to my male stirmi drumming before anyone says I’m not going to hybrid them
And yes you’re right there’s no need to argue we like all the same things ofc
But guys ask you’re self this why is my blondi responding to my strimi male ? I’m sure they can tell if it would work or not as they eat there sacs if there infertile becoz they know there not right so I don’t know I’m saying no to hybrids becoz yes pure bloodlines should stay

 

[Andrea82]

Unfortunately in Europe things were messed up a bit, in the past, and with certain species. I know that we have (compared to the U.S) the best prices, a better availability/offer etc but we had (and have) a lot of hybrids T's that were in the market.

I'm the only one that remember what happened with Hysterocrates spp. years ago? They were so mutt that even a proper I.D was barely impossible.

Hysterocrates is/was a mess on both continents if I remember correctly, both US and Europe/UK....

Sorry about that
But guys ask you’re self this why is my blondi responding to my strimi male ? I’m sure they can tell if it would work or not as they eat there sacs if there infertile becoz they know there not right so I don’t know I’m saying no to hybrids becoz yes pure bloodlines should stay

A B.albopilosum male drums to a B.vagans female too. Doesn't mean we should let him do his thing...

Its called research for a reason you.wont find this in conventional print! Go to rick c west google it and see images of theraphosa blondi yourself we are both situated in uk and do know from our own research what is accurate they didnt just appear they had to evolve .you dont think all animals are identical do you?

You can't just fling around vague research and insinuations like that. Come up with a reputable source or stop making those claims.

We need to keep it nice, and I really appreciate your response @Kieron2626123 but @esa space station on this forum, you back your claims up or you drop them.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Hysterocrates is/was a mess on both continents if I remember correctly, both US and Europe/UK....

Of course, the U.S always imported (legally, and, often, a bit 'less' legally... this has to be said, sorry U.S guys) from Europe, at the end.
Back then the local, internal U.S breeding scene wasn't like the IMO better one of today -- altough, due to the huge nation we are talking about, and the demand, still not enough for gain a more complete 'autonomy'.

 

[Kieron2626123]

Hysterocrates is/was a mess on both continents if I remember correctly, both US and Europe/UK....


A B.albopilosum male drums to a B.vagans female too. Doesn't mean we should let him do his thing...


You can't just fling around vague research and insinuations like that. Come up with a reputable source or stop making those claims.

We need to keep it nice, and I really appreciate your response @Kieron2626123 but @esa space station on this forum, you back your claims up or you drop them.

I guess the only way to find out is that someone breeds hybrids no hate please just saying

 

[esa space station]

Hysterocrates is/was a mess on both continents if I remember correctly, both US and Europe/UK....


A B.albopilosum male drums to a B.vagans female too. Doesn't mean we should let him do his thing...


You can't just fling around vague research and insinuations like that. Come up with a reputable source or stop making those claims.

We need to keep it nice, and I really appreciate your response @Kieron2626123 but @esa space station on this forum, you back your claims up or you drop them.

No i wont be dropping them and they are not insinuations it appears to me you are not reading correctly.so i will make my point again the point i was making that you misunderstood there are more than one type of t blondi in the wild they do not all look alike google rick c west see his photos of t blondi two different pics on there this matches exactly what me and another member know as fact that t blondi varies in appearance according to area now there are A)natural phenotypes B)naturally occuring hybrid /cross breed whatever you want to call it
That is what i know and having travelled and spoke to e.u breeders in person they are knowledgable ofvthis as it e.g 20 years ago it wasnt like this advancements have been made in breeding yes they have been crossbred and have worked /or not e.g suriname with french guyana etc so there you go i learned another language just to expand my mind how about you

 

[Kieron2626123]

Only theraphosa that can by hybrids is from same locality otherwise there’s not proper link

 

[esa space station]

First pic common colour form french guyana female

Dark colour form french guyana female .ps note images are courtesy of rick c west so u vant argue with scientific fact this is the point i was trying to make

 

[Kieron2626123]

There are 4 Sp of Theraphosa known there maybe more
From Brazil
French Guyana
Suriname
Venezuela

 

[Nightstalker47]

No one is disputing that there are two variants of T.blondi, I think that was made pretty clear earlier. However, you two are claiming that there are natural hybrids out in the wild, point being...any real evidence to back this up, or are these just assumptions due to their geographical overlap?

 

[Kieron2626123]

No one is disputing that there are two variants of T.blondi, I think that was made pretty clear earlier. However, you two are claiming that there are natural hybrids out in the wild, point being...any real evidence to back this up, or are these just assumptions due to their geographical overlap?

There are 4 blondi variants.

 

[boina]

OMG the so called "information" in this thread is all over the place. Let's get at least some of it sorted in case some other people read this.

@esa space station - btw, I had a long talk with Sven Köppler about variants and hybridization in T. blondi and his version sounds somewhat different than yours...

First of all: The biological species definition states quite clearly that animals that live in the same area and will mate and produce viable offspring belong to the same species even if there are variations in looks and morphology. No species on earth produces all identical specimens. Interspecies hybridization in the wild in not possible under normal circumstances.

Second: There are several geographical variants of T. blondi. Nobody knows if they are species, subspecies, geographical variants or whatever (Information directly from Sven, his words). Pairing between the variants may or may not be difficult - Sven wasn't sure about that himself.

Third: Interspecies variants of Theraphosa (blondi - apophysis - stirmi) species are not viable even if the pairing works. Claims of these "hybrids" are often based on misidentification of idividuals and can't be proven.

I'm tagging @Andrea82 and @Nightstalker47 since I want this nonsense cleared up.

 

[Nightstalker47]

There are 4 blondi variants dude look ^^^

Based solely on locale? Several species can be found in wide ranges, doesn't prove that they are all distinctive variants...you'll need more then that to have me convinced.

I am beginning to doubt everything you two have been saying. Ill need a more credible source before I buy into any more of this.

 

[Torech Ungol]

i was serious about the bigfoot quote if ur into that kind of thing

...and you just lost the tiny bit of credibility you had. If your critical thinking skills are so poor as to believe in Bigfoot, then you simply can't be a reliable source for information.

 

[Kieron2626123]

OMG the so called "information" in this thread is all over the place. Let's get at least some of it sorted in case some other people read this.

@esa space station - btw, I had a long talk with Sven Köppler about variants and hybridization in T. blondi and his version sounds somewhat different than yours...

First of all: The biological species definition states quite clearly that animals that live in the same area and will mate and produce viable offspring belong to the same species even if there are variations in looks and morphology. No species on earth produces all identical specimens. Interspecies hybridization in the wild in not possible under normal circumstances.

Second: There are several geographical variants of T. blondi. Nobody knows if they are species, subspecies, geographical variants or whatever (Information directly from Sven, his words). Pairing between the variants may or may not be difficult - Sven wasn't sure about that himself.

Third: Interspecies variants of Theraphosa (blondi - apophysis - stirmi) species are not viable even if the pairing works. Claims of these "hybrids" are often based on misidentification of idividuals and can't be proven.

I'm tagging @Andrea82 and @Nightstalker47 since I want this nonsense cleared up.

But there has been reports of hybrids....
For one Suriname and Venezuela Blondi have hairs on top of femurs like apophysis ? Right so there’s deffo a mix between