The worlds most venomous spider? End-all-be-all-topic.

[Crotalus]

Perhaps not as i said there is alot of debait onit... The link you posted states this.
>
If these spiders were indeed deadly poisonous but couldn't bite humans, then the only way we would know that they are poisonous is by milking them and injecting the venom into humans. For a variety of reasons including Amnesty International and a humanitarian code of ethics, this research has never been done
>
If you read it fully you will see there is no evidence to support the claim OR disprove it iver......

And if you continue to read on that page:
"Furthermore, there are no toxicological studies testing the lethality of pholcid venom on any mammalian system (this is usually done with mice). Therefore, no information is available on the likely toxic effects of their venom in humans, so the part of the myth about their being especially poisonous is just that: a myth. There is no scientific basis for the supposition that they are deadly poisonous and there is no reason to assume that it is true. "

Theres no reason to believe these species possess a potent venom, theres no facts supporting this and its just a urban myth. A die hard one i might add...
BTW, a venoms toxicity can be measured fairly good without human sacrifices. But since the spider provide no threat to humans why would any laboratory start doing a research in the first place. They hardly do that to kill a myth - even if I for one would be glad to see that.

/Lelle

 

[Crotalus]

Was really poking at the thread title which says 'end-all-be-all'. In an area that admitedly has a lot of discovery left that seems rather premature.

I thought that meant something like "once and for all" type of thing...

I think the chances are of finding a even more toxic species is far less then not finding them. So I prefer to discuss species and venoms that are in research.

/Lelle

 

[mimic58]

There is no scientific basis for the supposition that they are deadly poisonous and there is no reason to assume that it is true. "
/Lelle

So what scientific evidence have they provided to assume it is false ??

 

[Crotalus]

So what scientific evidence have they provided to assume it is false ??

No tests that i know of have been done but thats for good reason.
For a spider this size with no extralarge venomglands to be able to kill a human it has to be equipped with extraordinary lethal venom since the venom yield would be very small. Why would Pholcus possess that? All venom types evolved by choice of prey or/and as defense against much larger predators.
There are no documented cases of envenomation from this spider on humans.
So, why would anyone spend thousands of dollars to see wheather this tiny nonthreatening spider possess a strong venom? No one.
I know your answer will be something like "but no one can know" - maybe so, but add all these factors together and youll have the answer right there.
Then if you choose to ignore that and still think they have the "worst" venom of all - thats your choice.

Adding: What else then a myth do you have to support it has this venom of nuclearish proportions?

/Lelle

 

[JJJoshua]

From what I heard there had been tests done on rats testing the pholcidae venom, and it turned out to be extremely neurotoxic. I don't remember where I heard it so I can't support it so lets just say I'm wrong. I was watching discovery channel and that show mythbusters had them taking about 20 or 30 pholcidae putting them in a tube and the one guy stuck his arm in and got bite about 5 times. Nothing happened to him. Pholcidae can bite, their venom may be very dangerous to smaller mammals and insects, it might just take more to bring down a human, who knows until its actually tested? I say the sydney funnel web and black widow get my vote for being equally dangerous.

 

[Spider-man 2]

funny enoug i red up on this as i was considerng feeding them to my slings , we get alot of the here ,anyway what i discovered "apparently?" that "dady long legs" actualy posses one of most potent venoms known in the spider world ,The only reason there are not many fatalitys is due to there fangs being unable to penitrate our skin.

Daddy long legs being the small Pholcidae spiders with say a 3.5" leg span ,
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ednieuw/Spiders/Pholcidae/pholcus_phalangoides.jpg

I will put this myth to end. Read the link below.

http://www.washington.edu/burkemuseum/spidermyth/myths/daddyvenom.html

 

[mimic58]

I thought it was an interesting subject I was not decided iver way as to its venom being Powerfull or Weak I honestly didnt know so i thought id post the info i had...

As for most dangerous spider that does definatly pose danger to humans the brown recluse spider or a posibly yet undiscovered more nasty species.

 

[Elizabeth]

Here's a link to another AB thread on the brown recluse:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=20987&highlight=brown+recluse+danger


Where do you get your ideas about spiders?

 

[JJJoshua]

Brown recluse deadly?? Not very.
http://www.emedicinehealth.com/articles/10729-1.asp

"Deaths from brown recluse have only been reported in children under 7 years of age."


http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic548.htm

"Sydney funnel web spider (Atrax robustus) is the only species known to have caused death in humans; however, bites from other funnel web spiders have caused serious envenomation and clearly have the potential to cause death."

The black widow and sydney funnel web are far more dangerous than the brown recluse.

 

[Tony]

No tests that i know of have been done but thats for good reason.
For a spider this size with no extralarge venomglands to be able to kill a human it has to be equipped with extraordinary lethal venom since the venom yield would be very small. Why would Pholcus possess that? All venom types evolved by choice of prey or/and as defense against much larger predators.
There are no documented cases of envenomation from this spider on humans.
So, why would anyone spend thousands of dollars to see wheather this tiny nonthreatening spider possess a strong venom? No one.
I know your answer will be something like "but no one can know" - maybe so, but add all these factors together and youll have the answer right there.
Then if you choose to ignore that and still think they have the "worst" venom of all - thats your choice.

Adding: What else then a myth do you have to support it has this venom of nuclearish proportions?

/Lelle

IS that ALL you've got? I've got a rock here that has poison glands and fangs you can't see. But I have yet to be bitten by it, so who can say IT isn't the deadliest rock in the world eh?
;P

 

[mimic58]

Why would Pholcus possess that? All venom types evolved by choice of prey or/and as defense against much larger predators

Lol i just had a crazy thought!! This is a common house spider There always found in homes with people so now lets just supose its evolving a defence against us?.....

Before i get slaughtered i dont seriously think this its just an idea.

 

[Elizabeth]

I think you have a career waiting for you in Hollywood as a writer: tv, films, William Shatner vehicles.... :}

 

[Crotalus]

IS that ALL you've got? I've got a rock here that has poison glands and fangs you can't see. But I have yet to be bitten by it, so who can say IT isn't the deadliest rock in the world eh?
;P

LOL!
Be very careful with that rock Tony!

/Lelle

 

[Crotalus]

Lol i just had a crazy thought!! This is a common house spider There always found in homes with people so now lets just supose its evolving a defence against us?.....

Before i get slaughtered i dont seriously think this its just an idea.

Or we might be the next prey items ;-)

/Lelle

 

[kyle_de_aussie]

MY oppinion without a doubt in my mind atrax robustus a.ka. the sydney blue mountains funnel web its way worse than a black widow jeeeeez man i thought everybody new this stuff

 

[kyle_de_aussie]

Its definetly not latrodectus mactans there venom isnt much in comparison to australias atrax robustus. There is also a tree funnel web closely related to atrax robustus over here in australia that scientists beleive is even more venomous than atrax robustus but they havent fully proven it yet

 

[Crotalus]

Its definetly not latrodectus mactans there venom isnt much in comparison to australias atrax robustus. There is also a tree funnel web closely related to atrax robustus over here in australia that scientists beleive is even more venomous than atrax robustus but they havent fully proven it yet

Acctually there are two species of funnel webs that are even more toxic then Atrax robustus;
Hadronyche infensa, and the one you mention - Hadronyche formidabilis.

However the closeness to human settlements as in the suburbs of Sydney perhaps make Atrax the more dangerous one of the top three.

Venom strength is one thing, but if the species never, or rarely, gets in contact with humans then it wont matter much. Compare it to the snake considered to possess the strongest venom of all snakes, Oxyuranus microlepitotus (think I got that right), which hasnt killed anyone (documented anyway).

/Lelle

 

[becca81]

Wait a sec - I thought A. robustus was definitely the MOST venomous funnel web, with the males being more venomous than the females.

http://www.calacademy.org/exhibits/venoms/html/deadly.html#sfws

BTW - make sure we're referring as most venomous to WHO (humans, etc.).

 

[Crotalus]

Wait a sec - I thought A. robustus was definitely the MOST venomous funnel web, with the males being more venomous than the females.

http://www.calacademy.org/exhibits/venoms/html/deadly.html#sfws

BTW - make sure we're referring as most venomous to WHO (humans, etc.).

Well the males are more potent then the females and A. robustus was once considered the most venomous of the funnel webs but its been shown Hadronyche infensa and H. formidabilis got a even more potent venom - and in this genus its the females who are more potent then the males.

/Lelle

 

[kyle_de_aussie]

Acctually there are two species of funnel webs that are even more toxic then Atrax robustus;
Hadronyche infensa, and the one you mention - Hadronyche formidabilis.

However the closeness to human settlements as in the suburbs of Sydney perhaps make Atrax the more dangerous one of the top three.

Venom strength is one thing, but if the species never, or rarely, gets in contact with humans then it wont matter much. Compare it to the snake considered to possess the strongest venom of all snakes, Oxyuranus microlepitotus (think I got that right), which hasnt killed anyone (documented anyway).

/Lelle

I dont know where u got that information from mate but i live in australia and its common knowledge that atrax robustus is the most venomous no offence dude but maybe you should go check that info again Hadronyche infensa and Hadronyche formidabilis arent as venomous as atrax robustus thats a fact