The T keeper's guide, revised edition, thoughts?

[T_DORKUS]

And this is why I did not want to go down this path.:wall:

Paper cuts are wounds, do you go to the hospital everytime you get one? Pain killers often do cause dependency. There is a member on these boards that was addicted to painkillers. [JadeSpider85, I believe?]

Just because people do get addicted to pain killers does not mean going to the hospital to get relief will make you addicted. I've had painkillers after surgery and took the stuff for a few days, did I get addicted? No. Hospitals can do more than prescribe painkillers, they can give you oxygen if you have trouble breathing, steroids when you have bad cramps etc. But hey, if you want to go natural and take a shot of wheatgrass when you can't breathe, knock yourself out!

Yes, they could be bothered. Not honoring the claim and raising your rates could cost you thousands over a life time. Also, often times home owner's insurance will either make you get rid of your animals or deny you coverage. I know a guy that had to surrender his collection of perfectly innocent snakes because he let it slip out that he had them when applying for coverage.

Homeowners insurance?!! are you kidding me? First of all, you were talking about medical insurance. Second, even if what you say is true about homeowners insurance, going to the hospital or not does not make a difference because according to you, all that matters is the insurance company finding out somehow. Like they've got people waiting at the hospital waiting for you to come in. Homeowners insurance and medical insurance-two very different policies offered by different companies.

I said something along the lines of... "as far as scientists know, tarantulas can't be taught." Very different than what you accuse me of saying.

You are paraphrasing what you said. And perhaps you can explain the difference to me? You still haven't provided me with the name of one scientist (preferably one that knows something about T's) that "knows" that T's can't be conditioned and the research he did that led him to that conclusion.

I said nothing about vibes or sight, what I was saying is that T keepers subconsciously learn the ropes of handling each individual. They don't do the things that caused unpleasent reactions after a while and the T starts appearing docile. Remember, the subconcious mind consists of 90% of the active mind, but then again, what the heck does Sigmund Freud know about the brain?

Why do you keep bringing up the handling example?!! Stan and I referred to examples of defensive T's reacting to an approaching hand. No matter how you want to do it differently- the hand approaches the T. If it reacts defensively the first time, it should do so every time since you say it can't learn anything/be taught/ be conditioned etc. Perhaps you can explain to me how someone can pick up a T in a pinch hold without his hand approaching the T?? Nevermind, I don't want to know your response- I really don't have the patience to go back and forth with you.

It's hard to explain, but in a nut shell, confidence does not equal over confidence.

Where in my response did I say confidence equal over confidence?!! Please read your own words and my response again.

 

[Nomadinexile]

Don't be upset buddy!

Hey bud, I ain't trying to diss you or anything, calm down please. I was trying to defend you being a little know it all, cause you are 14. You are. Unless you are lying in your profile, which would really be childish. At 14, you can only know so much. It's just the way it is. If that bothers you, I am sorry. It's not meant as an insult, I was just stating a fact. As far as you knowing more than me, you very well may in some departments, but not all I assure you. And yes, you got me. I can hardly spell and my grammar stinks. I have not found either to be important until recently in my life and have a lot of brushing up to do. You are right. But to call part of the author's book "asinine", when it's known as "the bible" and you are "14", it shows a lot more than my poor grammar and spelling. But hang in there, you have a lot of life ahead and I am rooting for you, just relax a bit. Peace, Ryan

Oh, and btw, to put TKG on pet store shelves without recommending medical
attention would be financial suicide. No self-respecting publisher would do that either. Authors have to play it on the safe side with this stuff, or instead of breeding tarantulas for us, they end up spending their time in court trying to explain to people how he wrote that without a warning. And people do sometimes need to go to the doctor, if someone is having bad symtoms and is getting fearful, they should go. It would take more to get me or you in there maybe, but it's not weak to go to the hospital because of a pokie bite. The authors may have made more complex medical recommendations, but at some point, for spaces sake, they have to give general rules and suggestions that pass legal muster.

Relax, I don't necessarily think I know more than you, though I haven't ruled out that possibility. Especially regarding your all-too-frequent misspellings and crude grammatical errors.

Correction - I understand the concerns for our kind author's dignity, though I don't think the author would lose it due to ThomasH.

Your point is invalid and basically useless. Refer back to my postings and try to find it in your "wise" brain to enterpret those points.

TBH

 

[Nomadinexile]

Painkiller addiction

I am not a doctor. I used to "be addicted" to pills. But what I was really addicted to was escapism. I wasn't finding anything exciting in life. I didn't like where I was and who I was with. Being "high" didn't make my life any worse, I just didn't have to deal with it. As soon as I moved myself to a better place, with greener pastures, and new people doing interesting things, I quit taking them. Now I have to almost be loosing consiousness from pain before I will take anything. But to act like a 3 day supply of "regular" pain pills is going to cause addiction, is fear mongering and really silly. If you get in a major accident and end up in traction and get morphine for months, maybe..
3-7 days of darvocet, etc, isn't going to cause any addiction. Really. So I would drop that line of argument. It's just not true...

 

[ThomasH]

Just because people do get addicted to pain killers does not mean going to the hospital to get relief will make you addicted. I've had painkillers after surgery and took the stuff for a few days, did I get addicted? No. Hospitals can do more than prescribe painkillers, they can give you oxygen if you have trouble breathing, steroids when you have bad cramps etc. But hey, if you want to go natural and take a shot of wheatgrass when you can't breathe, knock yourself out!.

Yes, it isn't guaranteed that you will be addicted but why risk it? I like my chances better taking the bite "full throtle" than risking pain killer dependency. Could you refer me to a source claiming that a tarantula invenomation caused a life threatening loss of oxygen intake? Cramps aren't worth paying for relief in my opinion.

Homeowners insurance?!! are you kidding me? First of all, you were talking about medical insurance. Second, even if what you say is true about homeowners insurance, going to the hospital or not does not make a difference because according to you, all that matters is the insurance company finding out somehow. Like they've got people waiting at the hospital waiting for you to come in. Homeowners insurance and medical insurance-two very different policies offered by different companies.

If one goes to the hospital, insurance will know and *could* potentially investigate it. Some companies like Allstate and Progressive offer pretty much any insurance, so you could have multiple coverages from the same provider.

You are paraphrasing what you said. And perhaps you can explain the difference to me? You still haven't provided me with the name of one scientist (preferably one that knows something about T's) that "knows" that T's can't be conditioned and the research he did that led him to that conclusion.

I said that science has not yet proven otherwise. The widely believed, more likely answer is that Ts don't have the mental capacity to "tame." Either way, it is basically theorization.

Why do you keep bringing up the handling example?!! Stan and I referred to examples of defensive T's reacting to an approaching hand. No matter how you want to do it differently- the hand approaches the T. If it reacts defensively the first time, it should do so every time since you say it can't learn anything/be taught/ be conditioned etc. Perhaps you can explain to me how someone can pick up a T in a pinch hold without his hand approaching the T?? Nevermind, I don't want to know your response- I really don't have the patience to go back and forth with you.

It does react the same way every time. A pinch hold is a pinch hold, I'm not sure as to what you're asking? His hand approaches, I never denied or said anything about that matter. You just grab said T between legs II & III, that is different than just waving your hand in front of it or letting it climb onto you. If you don't want a response, don't write a question. I assume you have knowledge of the back space button with the cute little arrow going to the left?

Where in my response did I say confidence equal over confidence?!! Please read your own words and my response again.

You said the words over confidence after quoting me saying confidence. So I corrected you.

TBH

 

[T_DORKUS]

Yes, it isn't guaranteed that you will be addicted but why risk it? I like my chances better taking the bite "full throtle" than risking pain killer dependency. Could you refer me to a source claiming that a tarantula invenomation caused a life threatening loss of oxygen intake? Cramps aren't worth paying for relief in my opinion.




If one goes to the hospital, insurance will know and *could* potentially investigate it. Some companies like Allstate and Progressive offer pretty much any insurance, so you could have multiple coverages from the same provider.



I said that science has not yet proven otherwise. The widely believed, more likely answer is that Ts don't have the mental capacity to "tame." Either way, it is basically theorization.


It does react the same way every time. A pinch hold is a pinch hold, I'm not sure as to what you're asking? His hand approaches, I never denied or said anything about that matter. You just grab said T between legs II & III, that is different than just waving your hand in front of it or letting it climb onto you. If you don't want a response, don't write a question. I assume you have knowledge of the back space button with the cute little arrow going to the left?


You said the words over confidence after quoting me saying confidence. So I corrected you.

TBH

:wall: :wall: :wall:
Your comprehension skills need a lot of work. And if you ever make it to college, please take a class on critical thinking.
Judging from how ridiculous your responses are to the insurance issue, I'm certain you haven't a clue about insurance and how insurance companies operate. Have a good day. I'm done wasting my time.

 

[ThomasH]

Hey bud, I ain't trying to diss you or anything, calm down please. I was trying to defend you being a little know it all, cause you are 14. You are. Unless you are lying in your profile, which would really be childish. At 14, you can only know so much. It's just the way it is. If that bothers you, I am sorry. It's not meant as an insult, I was just stating a fact. As far as you knowing more than me, you very well may in some departments, but not all I assure you. And yes, you got me. I can hardly spell and my grammar stinks. I have not found either to be important until recently in my life and have a lot of brushing up to do. You are right. But to call part of the author's book "asinine", when it's known as "the bible" and you are "14", it shows a lot more than my poor grammar and spelling. But hang in there, you have a lot of life ahead and I am rooting for you, just relax a bit. Peace, Ryan

The profile information is 100% correct. You can only "know so much" regardless of age. Mental capacity varies by age though. A normal human's mental capacity goes up until they are 35-50 years old [Depending on individual.] and then decreases considerably after that age until they haven't got a pulse. I call the Christian bible asinine as well, so the name doesn't affect me. The nickname "bible" is debatable as well, hence the poll I created.
I appreciate that you are being kind to me and "rooting for me" but I have a feeling that you are underestimating me solely based on my age level.

Oh, and btw, to put TKG on pet store shelves without recommending medical attention would be financial suicide. No self-respecting publisher would do that either. Authors have to play it on the safe side with this stuff, or instead of breeding tarantulas for us, they end up spending their time in court trying to explain to people how he wrote that without a warning. And people do sometimes need to go to the doctor, if someone is having bad symtoms and is getting fearful, they should go. It would take more to get me or you in there maybe, but it's not weak to go to the hospital because of a pokie bite. The authors may have made more complex medical recommendations, but at some point, for spaces sake, they have to give general rules and suggestions that pass legal muster.

I seriously doubt that a law suit would pop up, even if it did it would probably be dismissed shortly after it's existence. Besides, it's a care and general information book, not a toxicology reference. He went way over the call of a "warning" too. He sensationalized so much that if I hadn't know better, I'd fear disease after a T bite. What makes you assume that a standard U.S./Canadian hospital could treat an exotic invert invenomation anyways?

I am not a doctor. I used to "be addicted" to pills. But what I was really addicted to was escapism. I wasn't finding anything exciting in life. I didn't like where I was and who I was with. Being "high" didn't make my life any worse, I just didn't have to deal with it. As soon as I moved myself to a better place, with greener pastures, and new people doing interesting things, I quit taking them. Now I have to almost be loosing consiousness from pain before I will take anything. But to act like a 3 day supply of "regular" pain pills is going to cause addiction, is fear mongering and really silly. If you get in a major accident and end up in traction and get morphine for months, maybe..
3-7 days of darvocet, etc, isn't going to cause any addiction. Really. So I would drop that line of argument. It's just not true...

Again, how do you know how a hospital would treat an exotic invert invenomation? I wouldn't be suprised to find them hooking the so called "victim" to an IV. Besides, I knew a guy addicted to Tylonal, so it isn't terribly far fetched.

TBH

 

[ThomasH]

:wall: :wall: :wall:
Your comprehension skills need a lot of work. And if you ever make it to college, please take a class on critical thinking.
Judging from how ridiculous your responses are to the insurance issue, I'm certain you haven't a clue about insurance and how insurance companies operate. Have a good day. I'm done wasting my time.

So your denying the information at their disposal?
TBH

 

[Nomadinexile]

meds

Mental capacity means nothing if you don't use it, and it takes time to fill the kettle even if you do.

QUOTE=ThomasH;1435009]The profile information is 100% correct. You can only "know so much" regardless of age. Mental capacity varies by age though. A normal human's mental capacity goes up until they are 35-50 years old [Depending on individual.] and then decreases considerably after that age until they haven't got a pulse. I call the Christian bible asinine as well, so the name doesn't affect me. The nickname "bible" is debatable as well, hence the poll I created.
I appreciate that you are being kind to me and "rooting for me" but I have a feeling that you are underestimating me solely based on my age level.

O.K., so this is where you have me wrong. I am not underestimating you. You are obviously intelligent for your age and communicate fairly well, althought a little defensively. It's not that I think you are dumb. I don't, nor do most people on here probably. What I do think, is that you are awfully confident and judgemental for someone of your age and experience level, and that you are not putting your intelligence to it's best use by using words like "asanine" to describe a book that is the best thing going from what I can tell. It's also an invaluable resource for many of us who don't know as much as you.... It's not that you question their opinions or the book, it's how you say it. That was a bit much for some people obviously. I think you were a little over the top, but I also think you are young, and over the top is normal for teenagers, just the way it is. That's all I am saying. I think you are smart, but definately inexperienced and emotional. No big deal, I was worse.... :O)


I seriously doubt that a law suit would pop up, even if it did it would probably be dismissed shortly after it's existence. Besides, it's a care and general information book, not a toxicology reference. He went way over the call of a "warning" too. He sensationalized so much that if I hadn't know better, I'd fear disease after a T bite. What makes you assume that a standard U.S./Canadian hospital could treat an exotic invert invenomation anyways?

Again, how do you know how a hospital would treat an exotic invert invenomation? I wouldn't be suprised to find them hooking the so called "victim" to an IV. Besides, I knew a guy addicted to Tylonal, so it isn't terribly far fetched.

Well, it depends on circumstances, but mostly, I believe, they would be watching your systems, making sure nothing fails, that your heart rate isn't sky rocketing, or falling through the floor. I don't know, I am not a doctor, but I also know that a lot of people have existing medical conditions, some of which could effect the "strength" of the venom, hence effecting them more. There are also people who would be scared to death and could almost give themselves a heart attack worrying until a doctor tells they are o.k. But regardless of anything, anyone who is ever having bad medical symptoms should go to the hospital. That's just good medical advice. I am tired and not getting the book out now, but I don't believe they said you have to go to the hospital. Btw, being dehydrated isn't a great thing when you have venom coursing through you. And how did someone get addicted to tylonal. You technically can't. It's not addictive according to the FDA or it wouldn't be sold over the counter. Tylanol 3 is a different matter, but to become physically dependent, you would have to take it for a long time, which would require either A. you had a bad accident and that's just the risk you take not to be in constant pain, or more usually B. you are an addict and don't like your life or reality or whatever. But you really have to abuse pain killers or be stuck on them for a good while before you develop physical dependence. Mental dependence is another story, and one that can't and shouldn't be told here, but that has nothing to do with pain relief as people in that situation are already generally just looking to escape. Your fears of addiction are way over the top. And, unfortunately, a symptom of an over zealous government who has been shoving this stuff down peoples throats the last few years. I don't think they are great, and should only be taken when necessary, but jeez... , one week of percocet and you aren't going to be a brain eating zombie. It's very reminiscent of Marijuanna madness from the 30's. I will look in the book and see what they say about some things, and would like to debate them with you. All I want is for you not to be so dang sure of yourself. You may be really smart, but you haven't lived long enough to know a fraction of what is out there. Heck, neither have I, and I am more than twice your age and read a lot and have lived more life than most ever will. Just know you don't know it all, and we will all get along just fine... :O) Peace, ryan

TBH[/QUOTE]

P.S. of all things to call "asanine", the christian bible would be one of the most appropriate. But unlike that fairly tale written hundreds of years after the actual supposed events, TKG was written in our time, by the actual participants in subject. We even have the authors on here that will answer are questions, and even take critisism. They also claim humanity, not infallablility; and they announce quit clearly the difference's of opinions on many things in the book, not claiming they came from the seed of god and what not.... So I don't have a problem with you calling the christian bible anything. Who Cares? But these are nice, honest people doing the entire hobby a favor by putting this together for the betterment of our community. They deserve a little more respect than "asanine". Really. disagree with them, tell them you think they are wrong. That's fine. But do it with out downgrading words, and no one will care and we will all be better off! :O)

 

[Nomadinexile]

just talk nicely, and debate away

Like ThomasH, I don't aggree with everything written in the TKG either.

Does that make me ''hormonal'' and ''irrational'' also?

He is entitled to disagree,it is his god given right to do so.

And just because someone can write a book on something doesent mean everything in that book is correct or the best way to things.

No, because you didn't call it "asanine". I was trying to get people to give him a break, not flame him. I did it the wrong way. But that comment came off to me and a few others as irrational. He is entitled to disagree, but if he could do it without being so rightous, and no one would care, AT ALL. God doesn't give rights, guns do. And yes you are right, not all book writers are 100% correct all the time, or even sometimes in some cases, but this book is pretty darn good, considering the other options I have had available to me. The only other book I have run across is about 25 pages and took me all of about an hour to read. It has many things in it I disagree with and it has hardly anything in it! I am sure there are errors in there somewhere, heck I find them in the NYT every week!, but his description sounded to me like he thought they were complete idiots or "asanine" for writing some information that while debatable maybe, certainly doesn't call for deragatory comments. That's all. I want the book to be debated, thomas included, I would just like it to be done with some decency. Fair?

 

[Exo]

If he feels the book is asanine it dosen't mean that he is irrational, it's just his opinion. There isn't any point in trying to change his mind on the matter so just leave it be.Some people will love the book no matter what, others might not care for it. There is no point in calling people out on thier opinions just because you don't agree with them. Debates are one thing, flame wars are another. Give your opinion and move on.

 

[ThomasH]

........but his description sounded to me like he thought they were complete idiots or "asanine" for writing some information that while debatable maybe, certainly doesn't call for deragatory comments. That's all. I want the book to be debated, thomas included, I would just like it to be done with some decency. Fair?

I called parts of it asinine, I also spoke highly of others. But people only looked at my claims that some parts of the book were questionable in my opinion.
Asinine = Foolish in this context it isn't as dramatic as you make it out to be.
Obviously you would rather me refrain from using this term. But I would at least like you to know what it means, as it seems you don't seem to understand it judging by your frequent misspellings of it and misuse in your postings.
TBH

 

[ThomasH]

Mental capacity means nothing if you don't use it, and it takes time to fill the kettle even if you do.

Mental capacity equals available potential. It determines how much or how little one can amount to. It also determines how intelligent one may be. Have you ever heard doctors speak about the lesser fortunate in the mental department? [I.E. Autism, etc.] They refer to them as having a mental capacity of such and such age. My cousin has Downs Syndrome, her maximum mental capacity is about equal to a twelve year old.

O.K., so this is where you have me wrong. I am not underestimating you. You are obviously intelligent for your age and communicate fairly well, althought a little defensively. It's not that I think you are dumb. I don't, nor do most people on here probably. What I do think, is that you are awfully confident and judgemental for someone of your age and experience level, and that you are not putting your intelligence to it's best use by using words like "asanine" to describe a book that is the best thing going from what I can tell. It's also an invaluable resource for many of us who don't know as much as you.... It's not that you question their opinions or the book, it's how you say it. That was a bit much for some people obviously. I think you were a little over the top, but I also think you are young, and over the top is normal for teenagers, just the way it is. That's all I am saying. I think you are smart, but definately inexperienced and emotional. No big deal, I was worse.... :O)

By you calling me out on being rude, you'd be a much better candidate for being "overly emotional" than myself. I don't honestly care much more about your perception of me than I do to address it.

Well, it depends on circumstances, but mostly, I believe, they would be watching your systems, making sure nothing fails, that your heart rate isn't sky rocketing, or falling through the floor. I don't know, I am not a doctor, but I also know that a lot of people have existing medical conditions, some of which could effect the "strength" of the venom, hence effecting them more. There are also people who would be scared to death and could almost give themselves a heart attack worrying until a doctor tells they are o.k. But regardless of anything, anyone who is ever having bad medical symptoms should go to the hospital. That's just good medical advice. I am tired and not getting the book out now, but I don't believe they said you have to go to the hospital. Btw, being dehydrated isn't a great thing when you have venom coursing through you. And how did someone get addicted to tylonal. You technically can't. It's not addictive according to the FDA or it wouldn't be sold over the counter. Tylanol 3 is a different matter, but to become physically dependent, you would have to take it for a long time, which would require either A. you had a bad accident and that's just the risk you take not to be in constant pain, or more usually B. you are an addict and don't like your life or reality or whatever. But you really have to abuse pain killers or be stuck on them for a good while before you develop physical dependence. Mental dependence is another story, and one that can't and shouldn't be told here, but that has nothing to do with pain relief as people in that situation are already generally just looking to escape. Your fears of addiction are way over the top. And, unfortunately, a symptom of an over zealous government who has been shoving this stuff down peoples throats the last few years. I don't think they are great, and should only be taken when necessary, but jeez... , one week of percocet and you aren't going to be a brain eating zombie. It's very reminiscent of Marijuanna madness from the 30's. I will look in the book and see what they say about some things, and would like to debate them with you. All I want is for you not to be so dang sure of yourself. You may be really smart, but you haven't lived long enough to know a fraction of what is out there. Heck, neither have I, and I am more than twice your age and read a lot and have lived more life than most ever will. Just know you don't know it all, and we will all get along just fine... :O) Peace, ryan

You don't neccesarily even have to be prescribed to become an addict. Some just think that it will give them a free high or relax them, so they lie to get a perscription. People use compressed air to get high, I'm pretty sure no one ever perscribed that. You never know what the hospital will do, I don't trust them. There are legal records of people having hospital tools left in them after a surgery. So assuming what the hospital will do barely holds water.

P.S. of all things to call "asanine", the christian bible would be one of the most appropriate. But unlike that fairly tale written hundreds of years after the actual supposed events, TKG was written in our time, by the actual participants in subject. We even have the authors on here that will answer are questions, and even take critisism. They also claim humanity, not infallablility; and they announce quit clearly the difference's of opinions on many things in the book, not claiming they came from the seed of god and what not.... So I don't have a problem with you calling the christian bible anything. Who Cares? But these are nice, honest people doing the entire hobby a favor by putting this together for the betterment of our community. They deserve a little more respect than "asanine". Really. disagree with them, tell them you think they are wrong. That's fine. But do it with out downgrading words, and no one will care and we will all be better off! :O)

I didn't compare it to the official writings of Christianity, you did and I responded.
I like that they made the book and there is amazing information in it, I was simply critiquing it. I'm not disrespecting anyone.

TBH

 

[J Dave]

Tarantula Keepers Guide

I bought the book before I acquired my first T; did not put it down till the last page. (in excess of 380)
I found it very informative; I take the approach that it is a good resource, but not necessarily the Tranatula bible.
The Schultz's long experience with the husbandry of Ts is a valuable resource.
Actually I purchased 2 other books on the tarantula hobby at the same time and neither one could hold the proverbial candle to the Tarantula Keepers Guide.

 

[robc]

I like it....I realy don'tr care for the negative words about the book or Stan....you don't like it, go publish your own book....justy my honest opinion!

 

[Exo]

This thread started as a place to state opinions on the TKG and has devolved into a full-blown mess. It has even sunk as low as attacking the christian bible! I am not religeous but some people are and saying things like that is insensitive and rude. you should be ashamed of yourselves( although, I doubt you are). Its petty, rabid, usless flame wars like these that make me ashamed to be human.

Also, I would like to apoligize to Mr. shultz for and distress this thread may have caused. There may be several things that I do not aggree with, but all in all, I think it's a pretty good book. I just wish this thread hadn't turned into an argument and I don't want to be considered ungrateful.

Heres hoping the fighting stops...(yeah, right.)

 

[Nomadinexile]

The book rocks

Exo, I am sorry if this little tiff makes you ashamed to be a human. If this is the worse thing you see and hear in your life, you should count your blessings.
Of all the things going on in this world,... and this is what ashames you of humanity????? wow

Thomas, I am sorry if I upset you. That was never my intent. I think you are a young feisty kid with a lot to learn, and that is just fine with me. I was just trying to explain to you how you could be taken wrong. I didn't do it very well and it was taken personally. I won't be responding to your point by points anymore. If you want to talk T's or the books, cool, but language disection, um no. Thanks!

Back to the book,...
P. 197
"3. Treat the Symptoms. If you begin to show signs of a reaction to the bite such as swelling, pain, dizziness, nausea, difficulty breathing, or elevated or irregular heartbeat, go immediately to an emergency clinic. Do not drive yourself-have someone else drive you, use a taxi, or call an ambulance if necessary."

I can't see anything wrong with this, except maybe the swelling and pain, but I take pain well. But this would be the advice anyone with their medical license on the line would tell you. And while not required to legally or through career ethic rules, these authors really have to, and should, put that in there. They also recommend cleaning the wound, and going to doctor if infection shows up. Again, good advice. Also, I found this very interesting;
P. 198 "As of this writing, no antivenon is being produced anywhere in the world."

Love the book, Could you guys do a SKG too? :O)
Ryan

 

[Flower]

If he feels the book is asanine it dosen't mean that he is irrational, it's just his opinion. There isn't any point in trying to change his mind on the matter so just leave it be.Some people will love the book no matter what, others might not care for it. There is no point in calling people out on thier opinions just because you don't agree with them. Debates are one thing, flame wars are another. Give your opinion and move on.

I think people are arguing because of the entire tone of ThomasH's posts. He has said several things, most things, with the air of being belittling and greater than thou, and I think it's his arrogance more than what he is actually saying that is irking people.

I do agree with one thing, just give your opinion and move on already. ThomasH has made it quite clear he already knows everything there is to know about the world, so why bother responding anymore?

 

[Exo]

Exo, I am sorry if this little tiff makes you ashamed to be a human. If this is the worse thing you see and hear in your life, you should count your blessings.
Of all the things going on in this world,... and this is what ashames you of humanity????? wow


I never said this was the worst thing I ever saw, I have seen things you probobly couldn't imagine, so STOP making assumptions. It is the constant need for humanity to fight and bicker that makes me ashamed to be human, a point you and ThomasH prove perfectly.

 

[Miss Bianca]

My opinion of it is IT ROCKS...

I am more than half way through the revised edition,
and although I cannot say I like it better than the last,
it seems to have a few major 2008-status changes,
(like mentioning the internet and forums more), which is good and 'revised'...
it's good but I wouldn't say its better.

I have not found it to be 'can't put it down', like I had found the last one.
There might be a very few things I don't totally agree with, but overall,
I would recommend it and there's no better reference IMO for novices...
I am enjoying it and I see it as a must have...

Kudos to SAS

 

[ThomasH]

I like that they made the book and there is amazing information in it, I was simply critiquing it. I'm not disrespecting anyone.

I am contesting information and I am sure that Stan welcomes that. Stan is a hobbyist with a thirst for knowledge, I don't think a brief intellectual discussion will be too disturbing to him.

There were awesome parts such as some of the photography and the species accounts. What I loved about the species accounts was that he posted all of the past and "corrected" scientific names as well as the current terms.

You all aren't getting me. This poll was written in a perfectly neutral fashion by myself and I gave people fair opportunities to say what they wanted to. I think it was an okay book and I loved many things about it, I also think that it is amazing that Stan kept up with it and revised it. I am just discussing the parts that I didn't necessarily agree with. This book is very, very far from me declaring it as toilet paper. All that some people cared about was me stating the parts that I disagreed with and attempting to invalidate me.
So mods, if you choose, delete all of my posts and those quoting me except post #1.

TBH