The proper use of heat mats

[VaporRyder]

As I mentioned, I don’t really allow my rooms to get cold enough to really need one. But, if I did, I would personally have a long heat mat placed horizontally (but vertically angled) on the back wall of each shelf of my rack or cabinet, with the thermostat probe in the center-rear of each shelf and a gap of an inch or so between the mat and my tanks. I did it this way for baby snakes - anything bigger than this got a vivarium with a guarded ceramic bulb. Heat mats work via infrared radiation, I believe, which heats objects and animals inside the tank in the same way that the sun does. I wouldn’t use one for conductive heating, myself.

No offence to anyone who uses them differently - just the way I was taught by my mentor who managed a large private reptile store, had kept snakes and other reptiles for decades, and had a bunker full of the most venomous snakes on the planet, as well as a few large crocodilians.

Edit: Gazing back through the mists of time, I do remember him attaching heat mats to the back panel of glass tanks for young emerald tree boas and green tree pythons. (Further edit: these animals would mainly sit on a centrally placed branch, waiting for food to be waved in front of them (mimicking opportunistic feeding in the wild) and would not press themselves up to the heated glass. A tarantula may well climb the conductively heated wall).

 

[Dorifto]

During that time, and due to my nature of being curious of every single subtle change, I made some experiments to know where to put the heat mat without increasing the risk for our ts. I even used flat peebles to provide heat... and I know that people will pull their hairs out, but for that specific need I was having, it worked. I'd put peebles again? Simply No, there are better ways to achieve the same effect.

I tried different placements for the heat mats, and finally after placing it in different spots, it worked the best under the enclosures, why, because my other heat, mat the biggest one, encourage my Ts to climb... Keep in mind that such big heat mat was needed to keep them at acceptable levels.

Keeping the heat mat under the two enclosures, in the middle of both, allow me to use a smaller heat mat, and more efficiently. This is the time when I started to offer them different kind of spots, with different values of moisture, heat etc to prevent them from climbing the enclosure, and it worked.

The first problem I noticed, and it's obvious now, but at the time not so much due to my ignorance, was that the Ts burrow toward the heat mat, at least the pulchra, the geniculata was not attracted so much for the heat. So I started thinking about things that can't be moved easily and can maintain the heat efficiently... effectively I imagined rocks... But I thinked about that and choosed rounded ones to prevent any puncture. The heated spot worked like a charm. They stopped climbing inmediately, and if someome ask me how I know it, I made a timelape every night for a week to know what they did at nights. The pulchra loved that spot, when she felt warm, she moved back to her burrow



After some time, I decided to redo the enclosures to ensure that the use of underside heat mats was much safer. I made the burrows on top of that heat mat, but between there is a thick layer of mortar and another thick layer of clay, to prevent from burrowing more. This method worked the best since only need to heat a small portion of the enclosure to keep them safe, and also mimics the funtion of their burrows during the winters, to be warmer than the outside.

 

[basin79]

So, I have to disagree with this statement, at least in one particular situation. I use heat mats and they are placed on the bottom of the enclosure. The ONLY way this is safe is to have them temp controlled via a thermostat AND make sure the tarantula can't get within an inch of the heated bottom surface. To do this, I utilize false bottoms constructed out of light diffuser panels and mesh. The temp probe goes into this heated air plenum under the substrate. There is a very specific reason I use this approach and I'll explain at some point in detail in my methodology thread.

So this must be a rare case of underground being warmer than the surface temperature naturally. A mountain species?

During that time, and due to my nature of being curious of every single subtle change, I made some experiments to know where to put the heat mat without increasing the risk for our ts. I even used flat peebles to provide heat... and I know that people will pull their hairs out, but for that specific need I was having, it worked. I'd put peebles again? Simply No, there are better ways to achieve the same effect.

I tried different placements for the heat mats, and finally after placing it in different spots, it worked the best under the enclosures, why, because my other heat, mat the biggest one, encourage my Ts to climb... Keep in mind that such big heat mat was needed to keep them at acceptable levels.

Keeping the heat mat under the two enclosures, in the middle of both, allow me to use a smaller heat mat, and more efficiently. This is the time when I started to offer them different kind of spots, with different values of moisture, heat etc to prevent them from climbing the enclosure, and it worked.

The first problem I noticed, and it's obvious now, but at the time not so much due to my ignorance, was that the Ts burrow toward the heat mat, at least the pulchra, the geniculata was not attracted so much for the heat. So I started thinking about things that can't be moved easily and can maintain the heat efficiently... effectively I imagined rocks... But I thinked about that and choosed rounded ones to prevent any puncture. The heated spot worked like a charm. They stopped climbing inmediately, and if someome ask me how I know it, I made a timelape every night for a week to know what they did at nights. The pulchra loved that spot, when she felt warm, she moved back to her burrow

After some time, I decided to redo the enclosures makin the use of underside heat mats much safer. I made the burrows on top of that heat mat, but between there is a thick layer of mortar and another thick layer of clay, to prevent from burrowing more. This method worked the best since only need to heat a small portion of the enclosure to keep them safe, and also mimics the funtion of their burrows during the winters, to be warmer than the outside.

I can't see how that works. It screams thermal blocking which would result in a fire. To prevent thermal blocking the mats would have to be set where no heat got through the mortar or clay.

 

[Dorifto]

I can't see how that works. It screams thermal blocking which would result in a fire. To prevent thermal blocking the mats would have to be set where no heat got through the mortar or clay.

Easy, take a rock and heat it, and you will see how long will last that heat in the rock. Same goes for that layer. Mortar doesn't act like a propper insulator per se, it only needs more time to store that heat, but once heated, it keeps the heat way longer than if it isn't anything between the heat mat and the substrate.

So this must be a rare case of underground being warmer than the surface temperature naturally. A mountain species?

Rare? How do you think burrows work during winters? They can stay several degree C or F above outside's temp

 

[basin79]

Easy, take a rock and heat it, and you will see how long will last that heat in the rock. Same goes for that layer. Mortar doesn't act like a propper insulator per se, it only needs more time to store that heat, but once heated, it keeps the heat way longer than if it isn't anything between the heat mat and the substrate.

It's not something I'd do.

 

[Dorifto]

It's not something I'd do.

A trick that I learned to sleep warm during winter trips to the mountains.

 

[basin79]

A trick that I learned to sleep warm during winter trips to the mountains.

You're a warm blooded mammal.

 

[Reezelbeezelbug]

They heat up equally, but you should take the measurement inside the enclosure, not at the outer side.

Now I'm more confused. The probe goes inside the enclosure? I thought it went between the heat mat and the enclosure wall, outside where the animal resides?

 

[Dorifto]

Now I'm more confused. The probe goes inside the enclosure? I thought it went between the heat mat and the enclosure wall, outside where the animal resides?

Yes.

The temperature is measured always inside. Why, if you place the probe outside and your house temp are like mine for example, it will never cut off the power, because outside temp is so cold that the outer side of the mat won't reach enought temp to trigger the power cut off.

If you place ot betwen the heat mat and the glass the reverse will occur. The heat mat will heat the air between the probe so fast, that it will stay cutting off the power all day.

If you place it inside, it will only cut off the power when the inside's temp reaches the limit.

 

[basin79]

Yes.

The temperature is measured always inside. Why, if you place the probe outside and your house temp are like mine for example, it will never cut off the power, because outside temp is so cold that the outer side of the mat won't reach enought temp to trigger the power cut off.

If you place ot betwen the heat mat and the glass the reverse will occur. The heat mat will heat the air between the probe so fast, that it will stay cutting off the power all day.

If you place it inside, it will only cut off the power when the inside's temp reaches the limit.

Why? I don't use the probes inside enclosures. Why do you think the thermostat wouldn't cut the power? Do you know how a thermostat works?

 

[Dorifto]

Why? I don't use the probes inside enclosures. Why do you think the thermostat wouldn't cut the power? Do you know how a thermostat works?

Yes I know how they work. So were are you placing the probes? Outside?

If you place them outside and you don't use any propper insulation, you can cook your T, and I know it because I didn't want to drill the glass to install the probe inside, so I installed in the outer side of the mat. What happened? My room temp was soo cold that cooled the probe more than the heat mat heated it. The results? enclosure's inside temp at 32°C 90F and the glass temp at 40°C 104F.

That's why I always measure the temp inside, is bombproof. When the inside temp reaches the desired temp, the thermostat cuts off the power, there isn't any external factor that could alter the measurements.

 

[Ungoliant]

Mods could you please make this a sticky as there's so much misinformation about heat mats?

We don't want to clutter the boards with dozens of pinned threads, so I indexed it within a new section in the Tarantula Information for Beginners (and More).

To befit its instructional status, I also moved this thread to Tarantula Questions & Discussions, and I cleaned up some off-topic commentary/jokes. (Replies are welcome, but let's try to keep them on topic so that people looking for help have an easier time finding it.)

 

[Wolfram1]

personally i think this thread was a great idea but after reading it all i am pretty confused

@Dorifto its incredible you managed to go against all the conventional rules and make it work still, but i am wondering how cold it can possibly be where you live that you need additional heating at all? And i think you are even going against what the safety information on some of them say. Also beautiful enclosures but how much space to dig is left for your spiders if there is 2 layers of insulation inside?


I thought this was supposed to highlight how easy it can be to use heatmats in a safe way and how to do it consistently.


I think i will stick to not using any additional heat for my spiders it has worked well so far

Also feel free to delete this post afterwards i just hope to get some answers and express my opinion but if it gets streamlined at some point to better present the information i understand.

 

[basin79]

Yes I know how they work. So were are you placing the probes? Outside?

If you place them outside and you don't use any propper insulation, you can cook your T, and I know it because I didn't want to drill the glass to install the probe inside, so I installed in the outer side of the mat. What happened? My room temp was soo cold that cooled the probe more than the heat mat heated it. The results? enclosure's inside temp at 32°C 90F and the glass temp at 40°C 104F.

That's why I always measure the temp inside, is bombproof. When the inside temp reaches the desired temp, the thermostat cuts off the power, there isn't any external factor that could alter the measurements.

Well as you can see in my original post I do explain and show I use a foil backed insulation board. I put the probe UNDER the mat.

 

[VaporRyder]

I have a question: Do heat mat users use them as a sole supply of heat in a cold room in winter? If so, what about the cold air itself?

Isn’t this why many advocate for room or space heating, rather than heat mats?

 

[Dorifto]

but i am wondering how cold it can possibly be where you live that you need additional heating at all?

In my old house we could reach 7°C 44'5F in winter, as the house didn't have any insulation or heating method at all. In my new house I don't have such issues, so the heating is now disconnected.

Also beautiful enclosures but how much space to dig is left for your spiders if there is 2 layers of insulation inside?

I use like 1cm of mortar and another one of hard clay. Once I filled it with substrate I noticed that the entrance was too narrow, so I modified a bit, so the real entrance differs a bit. From top to bottom like 10cm of substrate heigh difference. Maybe comparing this two photos you can get an idea of the slope. Also she used the burrow I made for her since day one, rearranged some things but it's almost untouch. She also made a web tunnel behind the wood that connects with her burrow, so now she has two hides in one.

 

[basin79]

I have a question: Do heat mat users use them as a sole supply of heat in a cold room in winter? If so, what about the cold air itself?

Isn’t this why many advocate for room or space heating, rather than heat mats?

I do yes. My room is small and I have quite a few heat mats. So even on the coldest winter days the room itself will still be around 65f.

 

[Dorifto]

I have a question: Do heat mat users use them as a sole supply of heat in a cold room in winter? If so, what about the cold air itself?

Isn’t this why many advocate for room or space heating, rather than heat mats?

In my case yes, heating the room alone, it would cost me around 150€ monthly... that's why I used under enclosure heat mat. It creates a micro climate so even having so cold air around, the air and the substrate on top of the heat mat was at acceptable levels. The rest of the enclosure was few degrees down.

 

[Reezelbeezelbug]

Well as you can see in my original post I do explain and show I use a foil backed insulation board. I put the probe UNDER the mat.

I think I get it now, I had the image you posted reversed in my mind. Just to make sure I do actually get it your setup is:
backing insulation, then the probe, then the heat mat, then the enclosure?

 

[Dorifto]

I think I get it now, I had the image you posted reversed in my mind. Just to make sure I do actually get it your setup is:
backing insulation, then the probe, then the heat mat, then the enclosure?

That's the right way to put it outside. But you should check inside temp for security.