The Bill To Ban Our Hobby Is Here!
- Thread starter ThomasH
- Start date
And again.
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lol.........
Yeah, I know I'm desperate. I've already gotten over 1,500 people to see it though. Which is good. You can't expect them all to act but hopefully a good percentage did.TBH
ok... bumping can be merited if you need to sell or buy something urgently, or you're not getting replies at all, but neither of those is the case here. (this is the thread with the most views in the past month.) just because you think your thread deserves more attention than the others, doesn't mean everyone else does. if they did, there would be no point to bumping it.
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- Jan 23, 2006
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Technically, the second amendment guarantees you the RIGHT to keep and BEAR arms, and it shall not be infringed.
Keep=own or possess
Bear=carry
infringed=interfered with in any way
Therefore all US citizens have the RIGHT to own and carry any weapon they see fit in any manner they see fit. Any other interpretation of the second amendment is a failure to understand simple English, and the lack of a dictionary.
Any state, county, or city that bans any weapon, if in violation of the 2nd amendment. There is no way around this.
Some day I sincerely hope the USA gets off this idiocy called democracy and goes back to how it is supposed to be which is a Constitutional Republic.
Seeing as how the USA doesn't care about the LAW of the land , IE the Constitution, anymore and we allow politicians get away with serious violations of said Constitution with their "laws" I don't think there is much chance they will do whats right in this case either.
BUT please call or write these folks with the ID 10 T errors and let them know how you feel.
Like i said, i really pity this country if we don't get back to the constitution as THE LAW.
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I may be coming into this a little late but I read the bill and it only states to ban those animals on the prohibited list. I have a problem with the fact that the list has not been made and there is no way to know what the intentions are until then. The really scary part of the bill, in case you missed it, is that there is a part were even the legal animals will all be put on a no mailing list. Meaning even the animals allowed will not be able to be shipped through the mail.
I find it quite ironic that the fish and wildlife folks have been directly responsible for most of the worst introductions. In the west there is now a lot of money spent on reintroducing native trout species to historic waters. The main reason they are disappearing is the introduction of rainbow and brown trouts by fish and wildlife for sportsman. Native Kokanee salmon in Flathead Lake Montana have become increasingly rare due to the introduction of Lake Trout and the subsequent introduction of mysid shrimp intended to provide more food for the salmon. Problem is, the shrimp moved up and down in the water column in a similar pattern as the lake trout not the salmon. Nice job boys! Also look at the situation with brown snakes on Guam. They introduced mongoose to eat the snakes but they liked the flightless birds more.
I find it quite ironic that the fish and wildlife folks have been directly responsible for most of the worst introductions. In the west there is now a lot of money spent on reintroducing native trout species to historic waters. The main reason they are disappearing is the introduction of rainbow and brown trouts by fish and wildlife for sportsman. Native Kokanee salmon in Flathead Lake Montana have become increasingly rare due to the introduction of Lake Trout and the subsequent introduction of mysid shrimp intended to provide more food for the salmon. Problem is, the shrimp moved up and down in the water column in a similar pattern as the lake trout not the salmon. Nice job boys! Also look at the situation with brown snakes on Guam. They introduced mongoose to eat the snakes but they liked the flightless birds more.
The real problem is that most people who really care animals have unknowingly signed petitions and or made donations to splinter groups of those who are really behind the drive to pass this ban.
TBH
Anytime that was done their names were added to the list of people supporting those organizations, those organizations are then considered a powerful lobby group because they can show the names of so many supporters when they push for this type of legislation. It does not matter that people got their names on the supporters list without knowing what they were doing.
Let us say that we, those opposed to this legislation, got 1,000,000 people to write in their objections. The odds are that at least ½ of them are also counted by the other side as supporters. That discounts our side by ½ bringing us down to 500,00 and you can bet that they have many many more than that signed on from dog lovers, horse lovers etc.
I am not saying don’t try, I’ve already spoken to a couple of congressmen myself, but be aware that we are behind the eight ball from the start and the odds are greatly against us unless the media picks it up, helps to make ALL Americans aware of this situation and comes down in a positive manner supporting the rights of ownership..
I'll preface what I am about to write with that it does not directly apply to the Second Amendment on its own...
But laws/ideals should EVOLVE along with an EVOLVING society. Note that is EVOLVING, not DEVOLVING! Some concepts ideals that are centuries old should be kept intact, while others rethought in the best interest of the public, in general, based upon SOUND THOUGHT. That is what is supposed to be the model that our government follows....but they don't, in that it never seems to be SOUND JUDGMENT, or intellectual thought that leads to laws in this land, but as we have all been stating, the pressures from special interests groups that FUND our "leaders".
Drachenjager, I cannot agree more that we need a change and that Democracy really has been failing us (but in my opinion, it's from letting our society be based on a model of a Democratic Capitalistic Society (where the Capitalism outweighs the Democracy), as opposed to a true Democratic Republic (where the interest of the people and not all the large corporations is what is at the heart of the government).
Back on subject though...
It seems that the bill proposed would only ban future imports. Animals already in the states (and part of the breeding program) would be "grandfathered in" While at first, this doesn't sound as bad as it could be, this would truly limit importation from overseas breeders of legally bred (not wild caught) animals. Overt time the inbreeding in the US would KILL the hobbies (herps, arachnids etc).
And I caught that part which would prohibit the mailing of even allowed "non-native species". I'm curious if that only means the federal mail system or would it also effect private couriers like Overnight Express, FedEx, The Box Nazis (errr....UPS) etc. On the surface it would seem to apply to only the USPS, but I'm betting they would "interpret" the "not so careful wording" of that section to include ALL "mailing" type companies.
Other countries have closed border policies, but in those cases it's to halt the exportation of species (which may have been exploited to near extinction in some areas) or/and to protect native wildlife/ecosystems from worse disasters than have been experienced (in the past through accidental or on purpose introductions...think the Cane Toad issue in Australia, or what happened to the native bird fauna in New Zealand). Now in the US we have seen some issues with invasive species, but looking at the data, and the potential, while I support fully the concept of stopping the spread of invasive species, I think that as stated by others here, this is not really the intention of the groups "backing" this bill.
And on another note, will the government REALLY be talking to "neutral scientists" on this issue or just start to put together a minimalistic list of what is approved, thus excluding everything else, and the list more or less based off so-called "scientists" in the pay of those lobby groups.
One last note reading this....as it is stated, I don't think we have to worry about canids and the like and the importation of ones not already in the US (think that came up from someone?). The domesticated dog is not seen as "wildlife" and also, it's one species (despite the different breeds, those are not viewed as "subspecies" by science). Though I'm not saying we wouldn't see an amendment to this some day to include some less "wild" animals as well....
That doesn't matter. Most laws started as trash in/trash out bills. People disagreed but didn't step up. The government won't know we're against them if we don't make it crystal clear.
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- 971
well i dont think the animals that are the problem
if someone wants an alligator
by all means get one
but make sure you can care for it
there should be a system to make sure that people are able to keep pets
even if it means that gov. people would come into our houses and inspect
they dont have to be strict but keeping an alligator in a kiddie pool is ridiculous
however keeping him in a proper enclosure is not
keeping a ball python in a cardboard box is not ok
keeping it in a proper tank is fine by me
and then more common animals
why should people be allowed to get dogs if they leave them outside all year
i can understand some situations but in extreme heat or cold you need to properly care for them
so basically its not the pets doing wrong
its the keepers who just want the pets and dont know enough to care for them
tests or something
even a pet license
if you should have to have a license to drive you should have one to care for another beings life
like kids if someone cant care for kids
gov steps in and takes them to a care center
same principle
if someone wants an alligator
by all means get one
but make sure you can care for it
there should be a system to make sure that people are able to keep pets
even if it means that gov. people would come into our houses and inspect
they dont have to be strict but keeping an alligator in a kiddie pool is ridiculous
however keeping him in a proper enclosure is not
keeping a ball python in a cardboard box is not ok
keeping it in a proper tank is fine by me
and then more common animals
why should people be allowed to get dogs if they leave them outside all year
i can understand some situations but in extreme heat or cold you need to properly care for them
so basically its not the pets doing wrong
its the keepers who just want the pets and dont know enough to care for them
tests or something
even a pet license
if you should have to have a license to drive you should have one to care for another beings life
like kids if someone cant care for kids
gov steps in and takes them to a care center
same principle
I would have to respectfully disagree. The permitation system is a terrible idea because the government would choose the requirements. Look at Florida. You have to provide an enclosure as long as your snake now. Who could afford a collection like that? The point is that government permitations are usually expensive and have obscene rules. In Florida you have to work a thousand hours to get a hot. That's insane. You can learn yourself, I know numerous self taught people. When the government steps in with rules they say "Hey look that passed, maybe we can make it steeper." One regulation is never enough for the government. They must be stopped as soon as they make the first bill and it is a dumb thing to suggest a permitation system.well i dont think the animals that are the problem
if someone wants an alligator
by all means get one
but make sure you can care for it
there should be a system to make sure that people are able to keep pets
even if it means that gov. people would come into our houses and inspect
they dont have to be strict but keeping an alligator in a kiddie pool is ridiculous
however keeping him in a proper enclosure is not
keeping a ball python in a cardboard box is not ok
keeping it in a proper tank is fine by me
and then more common animals
why should people be allowed to get dogs if they leave them outside all year
i can understand some situations but in extreme heat or cold you need to properly care for them
so basically its not the pets doing wrong
its the keepers who just want the pets and dont know enough to care for them
tests or something
even a pet license
if you should have to have a license to drive you should have one to care for another beings life
like kids if someone cant care for kids
gov steps in and takes them to a care center
same principle
TBH
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Well, what awoke the sleeping ,sniveling incompetent giant (gov), is people getting cobras turning up in there garage for one thing.
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Not to mention the fact Burmese Pythons are pretty much going to be living in the wild along the Southern United States forever now. Along with nile monitors, green iguanas, spectacles caimen, (unconfirmed) anacondas, etc etc etc...
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I actually found a yellow, and am hot on the trail, or tail,of a big green.