Thai black?

[savian]

Ok I got this guy a while ago and it molted out a adult male. But the problem is that it changed color completely is this really a Thai black (H. Minax) ?

 

[Botar]

From the conversation on the Vietnam Bird Eater thread, I'd say it is not an H. minax, but I haven't a clue as to what it would be. Stand by though, someone will know.

 

[Theraphosid Research Team]

Hi Guys,

the male on the picture looks VERY similar to the typical Haplopelma sp. "aureopilosum" males. The males from the real Haplopelma minax are nearly black,like the females. From Habitus they look more like Haplopelma lividum males: long slender Legs! This shown male has - in comparison to a Hapl. lividum male - short stout legs! So,if you haven't a female for him,please look out for a female which looks like the one below!

Cheers, Volker

 

[Phillip]

Great pic Volker...

Glad to see you here I love your pics.
Phil

 

[Haploman]

Hey

Originally posted by VolkervonWirth
Hi Guys,

the male on the picture looks VERY similar to the typical Haplopelma sp. "aureopilosum" males. The males from the real Haplopelma minax are nearly black,like the females. From Habitus they look more like Haplopelma lividum males: long slender Legs! This shown male has - in comparison to a Hapl. lividum male - short stout legs! So,if you haven't a female for him,please look out for a female which looks like the one below!

Cheers, Volker

Hey Volker,
Yes Its definatley a male but it is a haplopelma minax male
last year I purchased a haplopelma minax spiderling from Kelly swift then just last month it matured, the pic doesnt do justice but the color is the black tips on the end of legs and its a gray all over, I cannot believe how small the males are of this genus, I had haplopelma albostriatum, haplopelma sp aureopilosum males, they were so small, its pretty frustrating when ya get male these guys get eaten so easily tonight Im goin to give my female H minax her man hope it works out
Best regards

 

[Theraphosid Research Team]

Re: Hey

Originally posted by Haploman
Hey Volker,
Yes Its definatley a male but it is a haplopelma minax male Best regards

Hi John.

Do I understand you right,that you are of the opinion that the above shown male in savian's Posting is a HAPLOPELMA MINAX male and not a male of Haplopelma sp. "aureopilosum"????

Cheers, Volker

 

[Haploman]

Hey volker,
Im not a pro just a amateur hobbyist, but yes thats my opinion if im wrong I would really like to know more but my opinion is being based for this reason
I bought a few H minaxs from Kelly Swift of swift invertebrates,
He wouldnt sell me something that it isnt and from what I understand He's been really really good at recognizing species. and on savians pic ( his male) and my male is exact. Now if it isnt minax I definatley want to know because I am goin to try to breed my female minax tonight and I dont want a hybrid or crossbreed (a mutt) lol

 

[Theraphosid Research Team]

Originally posted by Haploman
Hey volker,
Im not a pro just a amateur hobbyist, but yes thats my opinion if im wrong I would really like to know more but my opinion is being based for this reason

Hi John,

well,okay, let's tell the story!
When I've got my first "Thailand-black" in Summer of 1985, I've received it under the name "Haplopelma minax". It was a beautiful black spider with an distinct orange Hairfringe on the outside of Patella and Tibia of the Legs,especially of the front Legs.The carapax was brownish and he was bordered with lighter brownish hairs.The picture in my posting above shows this Species!In the following Years I've got some males from this Species also. They were also sold as "Thailand black - Haplopelma minax".They ever looked like the male which is shown on the picture in savian's posting: light brown (nearly beige) with black Tarsi and black Pedipalps. In the beginning of the 90's I had the possibility to prove whether the Pettrade-name for this Species, namely "Haplopelma minax", is right or wrong. With the help of Andrew Smith I could get informations and drawings of the Typeseries of the real Haplopelma minax sensu Thorell (who described this Species in 1897).I've recognised that the Species which was (and still is) sold by the Petrade under the name "Thailand black - Haplopelma minax" has nothing to do with the Specimen of the Typeseries of the REAL Haplopelma minax.This means, the imported Species must be another Species than Haplopelma minax.I've created the name Haplopelma sp. "aureopilosum" for the Petrade Species,which has nothing to do with Haplopelma minax but which is ever sold under this name.In the meantime I could locate the Spread Area of the Haplopelma sp. "aureopilosum": They were collected in south Thailand (=Krabi, Phuket, Surat Thani, Cha am). The real Haplopelma minax comes from north Thailand (Chiang Mai,Chiang Rai,Taling sun ...). I had the possibility to examine a lot of real Haplopelma minax Material in several Museums and it seems that this is an ordinary Species in north Thailand,but was - to my knowledge - never imported by the Petrade.BTW, I've also received a lot of alive Haplopelma minax Specimen from friends and collectors which collected them in north Thailand and gave some to me.Because of this I can tell the color differences (see my posting above) between the males and females of the real Haplopelma minax and the Petrade "minax",which is in reality another Species and which will be described by me one day under the name Haplopelma aureopilosum.
For the better understanding I'll tell you some of the main taconomically differences of both Species with the help of the pictures in the postings below!
So again: I'm very sure that the above shown male in savian's posting is a male of Haplopelma sp. "aureopilosum" because of the totally other coloration and totally other habitus in contrast to the males of the REAL Haplopelma minax (from which I unfortunately haven't a pictures to show this differences).

I bought a few H minaxs from Kelly Swift of swift invertebrates,
He wouldnt sell me something that it isnt and from what I understand...

I don't know Kelly Swift,but as I understand you right, Mr. Swift is a staffer in a Petrade. Have you ever seen a Petrader which is a systematist or which has a deep knowledge about the principles of zoological Systematic or which has ever examined the needed Type Specimen in a Museum??? I haven't! I have personally contact to all the relevant tarantula Systematists of the world, but Mr. Swift is not known to me as such a Systematist!Well, I have nothing against Mr. Swift,I don't know him personally, but I'm always extremely carefully with Petrade scientific tarantula names!!!!

Keep smiling!

Cheers, Volker

 

[Theraphosid Research Team]

Haplopelma minax:

Female: It's that black Species which is shown by botar in his posting from 8 - 28 - 02 in this Thread!

Spermathecae (undivided, with no clear dent in the middle of it)looks like this:

 

[Theraphosid Research Team]

Haplopelma minax:

Stridulating Organ (arrangement of Spindes) on coxa of Palp pl. looks like this (3 rows of Spines,no front-spine.This structure is very stable!!!).Note: there are no spines above the Sutur!!!!!!:

 

[Theraphosid Research Team]

Haplopelma sp. "aureopilosum":

Female: It's the Species which is shown in my first posting above here in this Thread.

Spermathecae (undivided but with clear dent in the middle of it) looks like this:

 

[Theraphosid Research Team]

Haplopelma sp. "aureopilosum":

Stridulating Organ (arrangement of Spindes) on coxa of Palp pl. looks like this (2 rows of Spines,1 distinct front-spine.This structure is very stable!!!).Note: there are some spines above the Sutur which are marked with the green arrows!!!!!!:

 

[Haploman]

Hey Volker,
really interesting and learn something new each day
Best regards

 

[Swifty]

H. minax

Hi Jack, Volker,

Let me clear a few things up....

The H. minax that I had sold this past year were purchased from another well known dealer in a trade, as spiderlings. Impossable to identify whether they were what he said they were at this size, so I was forced to trust him. The only way I can 100% be sure of the ID of a spiderling, (unless, it is purely obvious) is if I breed and produce it myself.

Sad to say, but this type of thing happens in the trade quite often, but it was never deliberate on my end.

Volker is the authority here on Asian species, so I would think he is right about the H. minax. I for one am not a taxonomist.

Swifty

 

[Theraphosid Research Team]

Re: H. minax

Originally posted by Swifty

Sad to say, but this type of thing happens in the trade quite often, but it was never deliberate on my end.

Hi Kelly,

I hope you don't fell offended by my statements above. I only wanted to point out that it is often the case that Petrade Tarantulas get wrong names from the Suppliers,because they aren't taxonomists or haven't any nearer interest in knowing the right names of the sold Tarantulas. But this shouldn't be generalized for all Petraders. Todd Gearheart, for example, ever tried to get the correct identifications of his imported asian tarantulas. He always send me parcels with dead Material to become a correct identification. But the most Petraders which I know, are not interested in making such an expenditure. Especially those here in Germany.If you believe or not,but we have tarantula suppliers here ,which still sell ordinary Haplopelma lividum as Lampropelma violaceopes!!!

With best Wishes, Volker

 

[Haploman]

Re: H. minax

Originally posted by Swifty
Hi Jack, Volker,

Let me clear a few things up....

The H. minax that I had sold this past year were purchased from another well known dealer in a trade, as spiderlings. Impossable to identify whether they were what he said they were at this size, so I was forced to trust him. The only way I can 100% be sure of the ID of a spiderling, (unless, it is purely obvious) is if I breed and produce it myself.

Sad to say, but this type of thing happens in the trade quite often, but it was never deliberate on my end.

Volker is the authority here on Asian species, so I would think he is right about the H. minax. I for one am not a taxonomist.

Swifty

Hey Kelly,
Sorry for bringing you into this :8o Now that I remembered when we had a conversation on the phone "you have told me that, I Apologize "

 

[Kenny]

Systematic..)

Hi all..

I am a complete rookie when it comes to T's,,but I am a Swede by birth and T's hasn't been in my natural habitant ,ever, and one thing I do know is that Swedes and Germans have one thing in common; details and depth to "death".
For good and for worse.

The science of T's is very important.

Now,,Volker,,like a Swede, I'll take a stand, ( not like Lutzen because we lost ) and that is that the "Petrade", weird name, is a way of trade for us that buys T's and the dealers that sell do their best to classify and what I have understood the so called experts also have problems with the Latin names.

I just got this very "negative" kling-sound from you mention the name "petrade".
Everybody do their best.

I'm not at all an expert and I know you're a very good source for knowledge and I was also happy to see you show up in here for rookies, like me, so please don't take any offense from my post here.

Kenny "the rookie"

 

[MrDeranged]

Okay. Now for the 5 million Dollar question.

If the T's being sold as H. minax are actually H. sp. "aureopilosum", then what are the T's being sold as H. sp. "aureopilosum" ? :?

Scott

 

[Kenny]

....

 

[Swifty]

Re: Re: H. minax

Originally posted by VolkervonWirth
Hi Kelly,

I hope you don't fell offended by my statements above. I only wanted to point out that it is often the case that Petrade Tarantulas get wrong names from the Suppliers,because they aren't taxonomists or haven't any nearer interest in knowing the right names of the sold Tarantulas. But this shouldn't be generalized for all Petraders. Todd Gearheart, for example, ever tried to get the correct identifications of his imported asian tarantulas. He always send me parcels with dead Material to become a correct identification. But the most Petraders which I know, are not interested in making such an expenditure. Especially those here in Germany.If you believe or not,but we have tarantula suppliers here ,which still sell ordinary Haplopelma lividum as Lampropelma violaceopes!!!

With best Wishes, Volker

Hi Volker, no offense at all. People play very different roles in this hobby, and it doesn't mean ones role is less respectable than anothers. The truth never offends me. It would be impossable for one person to try and take on every role, when dealing with these fascinating animals. My main focus is breeding. I also run a very respectable business, and as most who know me, can attest that I do have an eye for details. As I stated before this misidentification, was not by any means limited to my business, and I'll bet almost every other dealer at that time, had the same misnamed spiderlings on their list, only might not admit it.

Volker, I admire your work, and it is very helpful to me because it is reliable, and useful to me, especially when working in breeding new species of Asians that are quite rare in the hobby.

Good thread here! Very helpfull to this hobby!

Swifty