Telson's Site

[Wade]

What sets this forum apart is the consistant and fair moderation. This does NOT mean that things can't get "confrontational" at times, but if things get too out of hand, a moderator steps in and ends it, and even deletes the most offensive posts if need be.

I think I used to be a regular participant on that same board Code Monkey described as "self destructing due to bad moderation", and I agree that that was what happened. The moderators allowed a certain troll (who deliberately started flamewars, but stayed within the literal interpretation of the rules) to wreck havoc on the comunity, while repremanding those who responded to said troll. They let flame wars rage on and on, and only stepped in when the damage was done. The place is a relative ghost town now, this is the curse uf under moderation.

Over-moderation can also be the potential hazzard. I have to wonder, exactly how can they plan to keep the board "non confrontational", especially if many of the same members here become members there? Will the moderate all disagreement, or only disagreement that they deem to be less than polite? How do you draw THAT line? People are going to be put off when they find themselves being moderated simply because the moderator doesn't like their percieved "tone". These are hard things to judge. Different people have different styles, some people are just more blunt than others.


The board will suceed or fall on it's own merits. If it doesn't manage to distiguish itself, it will probably go the way of so many before it.

Wade

 

[Code Monkey]

Originally posted by Wade
I think I used to be a regular participant on that same board Code Monkey described as "self destructing due to bad moderation"

Yes, you were , as wasn't I, and a lot of the regulars here. I used to split my time about 50/50 between the two until I just got tired of seeing entire booklets of my material deleted because the mods couldn't be bothered to actually stay on top of things so they just clear-cut entire threads whenever things had reached thermonuclear meltdown status. Heck, they would even get into flame wars themselves, lose their sense of objectivity & ban members responding, then delete the whole thread when it was done.

If you want to see over-moderation in practice, that's Spider-talk in a nut shell. I'm not going to diss that practice because it is a privately owned board and I understand that there are people who actually like it that way, so be it. It does things differently enough to distinguish itself.

I'm just not seeing what niche chelicera.com is filling (and if any of you are familiar with ecology, you know what the niche theory says about species living within any particular ecosystem and how that ties in with my "rantings").

 

[skinheaddave]

Originally posted by Code Monkey
I'm just not seeing what niche chelicera.com is filling (and if any of you are familiar with ecology, you know what the niche theory says about species living within any particular ecosystem and how that ties in with my "rantings").

Glad to see I'm not the only one that was thinking about that parallel.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[esmoot]

First, yea it does look like Arachnopets with a new color theme, which is not cool.

I don't agree that new sites are a bad thing if they have something new to offer. For now and probably for a while this is the major site for t's with pretty much everything going smooth and I like it. A little diversity is not bad either. I'm guessing this was not the first t site and people could have said the same thing about Arachnopets being unnecessary when it was new.

The moderation here is good. Yes Code Monkey can have the "I'm always right and you're wrong" attitude in his posts so I can see where some people get ticked at him. People get way serious and offended on any board. I know I've gotten that way before.

 

[Code Monkey]

Originally posted by esmoot
I'm guessing this was not the first t site and people could have said the same thing about Arachnopets being unnecessary when it was new.

Absolutely not, but what set it apart was it was the first real threaded board other than Petbugs. It's UI was heads, shoulders, and trunks above any other competition including Petbugs. That all by itself was enough to distinguish the board in a sea of Tarantulas.com & Insecthobbyist.com type boards.

Scott built a better mousetrap and people beat their way to the doors. It doesn't make Scott a genius or this site the second coming, but by being in the right place at the right time with the right tools, it is what it is.

 

[Telson]

Response

Ok... I've read the posts in this thread and given this thread some consideration, and here are a few responses:

In regard to my "ripping off this site", I looked around at this, and other forums/boards, saw what people liked and what they didn't. Based on talking to other people from here and elsewhere, I emulated what I saw was liked and tried to omit the things I've seen people don't like, and am working very hard on adding things to the boards themselves, as well as the overall site that no one has done yet, which of course will take a little time to complete and put up. After all... the site's been "public" for what... 3 days?!? Additionally, I'm working on a different look for the entire boards, and planning for a version upgrade of Vboards in the coming months.

I in no way expect my site to become the next arachnoboards. The forums was the simplest thing to put on the site and thus, it got done first. It's that simple. If the fact that I have forums offends you, no one says you need to use them. If the fact that the layout is so similar to this site offends you, all I can say is "Why?" I'm not trying to compete with arachnoboards. I'm puting together a site that should be helpful to the hobby when all aspects are up and running, and as I said before ever puting them up, it will have forums. There are people entering this hobby every day, and as my site is geared at this time primartily towards the newbs that I so frequently see as the butt of "joking" threads here, as everyone is so sick of seeing the same questions posted by them as they join up, what exactly is it that I am "taking away" from this site? Everyone has said that the forums here are about the best layout they've come across so I naturally laid mine out similarly. It's not like I'm changing the jacket on a book and selling it for profit.

So... What I gather here is that if I should decide to build my own car, it can't have 4 wheels? Or should I not be allowed to use fuel injection because it wasn't my design? What would you rather I call the Myriopods forum, other than Myriopods? If it is so offensive, all anyone needed to do was drop me a line and say "Your design looks too much like arachnoboards and someone might be offended... any chance you could just make two forums for centipedes and millipedes instead of calling it Myriopods?" No one had the courtesy to do this however and instead decided it a better idea to discuss how offensive the site is in open forums here... Yet those same people wonder why I wanted to have another good set of boards where I can post in a more friendly environment?


To those who didn't like MizM2's first post, or my response to it, please re-read it and think about what it said. I am simply stating that yes, the boards she reffers to are sometimes confrontational, but that it has a LOT of knowlegeable people who know what they are talking about and it's a great place to get accurate information, and that I have to give it props for that. (I notice no one bothered to include THAT part of my post in their remarks about it...) By confrontational, I do not mean that "people might disagree with each others thoughts and opinions", I mean that I have seen some posts where certain people have tossed tact and common politelness out the window in their choice of wording over that disagreement. I'm pretty tired of trying to point out the difference between "not agreeing on an issue" and "lack of consideration in how someone says something". I see no reason that a disagreement cannot be discussed politely in a mature manner in open forums. As this concept has not been well recieved here, and I've been told basicly to stop "whining" about how things should be and just accept them as they are, I chose to set up a place where I can take a more active role in making it a friendlier place than this site has shown itself to be in SOME threads. I've have from time to time, missinterpreted some peoples comments as being rather insulting, and have openly appologized for becoming deffensive on those occasions when it was clarified and shown not to intentioanally be that way. If MizM2 wishes to post that she has encountered a lot of negative or confrontational experiences on a particulr site, regardless of what that site is, she is talking about a personal experience, and has the right to comment on what she personally has encountered. You may also notice that this site was not even named in that post, nor in my response to it.... The forum created for other site reviews was INTENDED primarily for people to comment on the validity and availibility of information provided to rate resources, and expressly states that slamming other sites by name on general principal will not be tollerated.

Look... I like 99% of the people here, and even those whom I don't like, I at least respect for their knowlege. I'm NOT trying to go to war with this site or any of its members, and anyone who doesn't like my site doesn't have to use it, but I do expect that you follow the rules of THIS site and not openly slam it by name here.

I think that covers most of the issues brought up in this thread so far...

Thanks to those who have supported me in my effort to create another resource for those new to the hobby.

 

[esmoot]

Yep I agree that this design is great and easy to use. I wish Scott could figure a way to have an auction here though. The problem that has to be solved first is how to make sure a bidder follows up on his bid. A valid verified Paypal account might be the answer. I like the auction idea but the one on Petbugs does not work all that well. I have had users flake out and create fake user names to avoid paying.

Hey Code Monkey. A bit off topic but don't you post as Skeptic on Spidertalk?

 

[Code Monkey]

Originally posted by esmoot
Hey Code Monkey. A bit off topic but don't you post as Skeptic on Spidertalk?

"Hey, look, there's a bear!!!..."

<ducks out the back door muttering something to himself when no one is looking this way>

 

[esmoot]

Holy $#!^!!!! Where??!!!!!!!!

Yea I knew it. ; )

 

[Code Monkey]

Re: Response

Originally posted by Telson
So... What I gather here is that if I should decide to build my own car, it can't have 4 wheels? Or should I not be allowed to use fuel injection because it wasn't my design? What would you rather I call the Myriopods forum, other than Myriopods? If it is so offensive, all anyone needed to do was drop me a line and say "Your design looks too much like arachnoboards and someone might be offended... any chance you could just make two forums for centipedes and millipedes instead of calling it Myriopods?" No one had the courtesy to do this however and instead decided it a better idea to discuss how offensive the site is in open forums here... Yet those same people wonder why I wanted to have another good set of boards where I can post in a more friendly environment?

No, it can have 4 wheels, but it shouldn't have "Honda" scratched out and "Telsona" pasted over it. Also, it's not the fact that the names are similar, it's that it's broken out almost identically to *this* board. You can say what you want about being inspired by other boards, but having been to 90% or more of the boards out there at one time or another, I'm not seeing how you can say what you did with a straight face.

I don't know why you are surprised or indignant. Intentions are great, but if you think this is the first time we've read about how many great and wonderful plans there are for a site, you are very mistaken. It's the cliched "Where's the beef?" question. Intentions are cheap, results are what speaks. I truly do wish you luck in getting up different material. You know your stuff, you are clearly passionate, but you are also very naive about the politics of web boards of any subject if you think that launching the site as you did wasn't going to spark accusations of ripping-off.

I've seen communities go into *years* long open warfare over stupid things like this and I'm glad that we don't operate like that. In spite of your claim, I have not seen anyone slam your board, only comment on obvious facts about your board and the hobby in general - of course that inability to see the difference between cold, hard observations and negative slamming is a general issue with you and other sensitive folk at times.

If you intend on being different then launching with that board set up that way was *not* the way to do so. Win the traffic first with *content*, then bring the boards. If the timing were different and Spider-talk was the leading threaded web board with auxillary content even Arachnopets would not succeed today with no more original content than we have.

 

[looseyfur]

theres no getting toghter on this. dudes site looks acts and feels like this one... its a smaller community by far and more then likely will always be so as will most compaired to the might that is AP. This boards look feel and functionality is a logical choice for anyone creating a fourm communtiy so I wouldnt fault anyone for using the same software. its excellent software. I dont find much fault with any of these goings on though what I will say is that posting about an alternate site here was/is a poor idea. it just looks bad no matter what the intention... Ten asked and heard or selectively hear what he wanted to hear and has gone ahead with his project. its a moot point... not to be confused with an esmoot point. I read here and I read there and I read ST. I like to read... I have met new folks on ST and I like them and I like reading what they have to say... I assume I will meet folks on Chix and will enjoy reading their posts and ideas as well... If I have to surf around a bit to read stuff that intrestes me about this hobby posted by fellow hobbiest then so be it. I figure I will NEVER get it all under one roof anyhow thats just not realistic. I really could care less about much of the bru-ha-ha I am just reading and taking in as much as I can from where-ever I can and I am cutting the crap posts away from them all and concentrating on the best each site has to offer for information. then I respond to the topics at hand that intrest me... REGARDLESS what site its on.thats right I dont care in the least where they are posted. the best posts the wisdom thats all I am after ... I dont care one bit which site looks like what site. was there room for another site... sure there was... theres
room for 1000 more if I can read 1000 good posts.

go ahead start picking this apart.

;P

your FRIEND-
looseyfur

 

[MrT]

Originally posted by looseyfur
.

its a moot point... not to be confused with an esmoot point..

go ahead start picking this apart.

;P

your FRIEND-
looseyfur

ROTFLMAO,

E

 

[Botar]

I'll chime in here as well. I think another info site is a great idea. I don't have what it takes to do that, so I'm glad others take on the task. As for another forum site, I don't have the time to watch more than one site. Back when I first came to A-pets, I might have been able to visit more than one. The number of posts back then was much easier to manage. Now days, you miss a couple of days and it takes hours to catch up. Again, kudos to our friends that actually read all of the content to keep everything above board.

I wish we could put it all under one roof and then cut out a lot of the fluff posts/threads. However, when a site grows in popularity it attracts all kinds. I know my fluff to info ratio when I first came hear was most likely pretty pathetic, so I grant newbies a little slack. Unlike some people though, I did a great deal of reading of past posts before I ever posted anything. Then once I felt like I had the basics, I began posting and asking questions. Being involved is what makes you feel like you belong.

All in all I don't mind addtional websites. As stated before, the will live or die depending upon what they have to offer. I do think advertising for your site on another that offers the exact same thing is a bit tasteless. Seeing as I've not kept up with the posts lately, I'm not directing that at Telson, just making a statement on what has already been said in this thread.

I'd also like to see a website that has info available on all the species in the hobby. Somewhat like John Hoke's species info with a bit more info on husbandry. Now THAT would be new and exciting.

Botar

 

[Telson]

You missed a quote:
Everyone has said that the forums here are about the best layout they've come across so I naturally laid mine out similarly. It's not like I'm changing the jacket on a book and selling it for profit.


Once again, the site is all of 3 days old... In regard to intentions and what actually gets done, how about waiting until the site is dead before digging it's grave, please?

In regard to slamming, the URL has been named here and clearly called a rip off of this site despite a clear compare and contrast display by its #1 naysayer showing some differences that were immidiately labelled as ignorable, and further ignoring the obvious fact that the part of the site being discussed is all of 3 days old, the same software as here, and impossible to do without having a lot of similarities by its very nature. Ragardless of wether or not some of you think certain forums on my boards have any purpose or will get much traffic, they do exist there and not here, as similarly, some forums exist here that do not exist there. Other changes to further dissimilate the two boards are in the works, as I've already said, but with the same software there are limits to how different the two can be, and with them both being about the same subjects, again, there are limits as to how different they can be. I'm more than willing to entertain ideas presented to me on how to make it "different" as long as those ideas are not "don't do... because that's already been done.", which are not aimed at improving the site as much as avoiding a duplication that somehow has been deemed territorial.


As for the proclaimed violation of its own #1 rule in the first post that got put on the boards, let me repeat this for you: Was this site named in the commentary regarding "confrontational" site? ...NO!! If you come from this site and wish to assume that it was the subject of her remark, then that should tell you 2 things... Firstly, that I'm not the only person here with this issue, (I've gotten a number of PMs here commenting on the matter and stating that the sender looks forward to a well built forums that doesn't have that problem, not just from her either) and 2ndly, it is on the person making that assumed inclusion of this sites name in her post, not on her, that even makes the matter a percieved problem.

Some of you are acting as though this is the ONLY source of arachnid hobbyists and that my site is going to vastly rob this place of members, or that somehow my sites forums existance is going to preclude new members joining here, and in the same breath looking at a stop watch to see how long it lives while fingering shovels for the highly anticipated grave digging party. I find the whole thing rather ironic, and a little paranoid, especially considering that to the best of my knowlege niether site is for profit of any kind, and both are aimed at the same purpose, which is to promote the hobby. Not all members who join my forums are going to be from this site in the future, and for the record, those of you who wish to join are welcome to do so, just as those of you who don't like it are welcome not to.


As for me supposedly looking for this kind of critisism by puting the boards up first, again, let me repeat: As the forums were the easiest thing to do so they got done first, and the site is only 3 days old so they are nowhere near completed, as goes for the site as a whole. I believe MizM posted this thread as a "Hey, check this out" notice, rather than a "Hey, lets compare and contrast", but if you wish to do the latter, I have no problem with it as long as it doesn't result in generalized "Telsons site sucks" posts.

Again, I must say, I notice no one is asking the source (me) why certain things were done the way they were done though. Perhaps doing that in this thread MIGHT clarify a few things and take this subject to a more social conversation/discussion level? It would certinaly be more constructive to say "Hey Telson. Why does your boards look so much like these?" than to post the obvious fact that they do as a simple negative statement, and I'd like to ask a few questions myself in response to some of the negative feed back being provided here as well.

 

[looseyfur]

telson telson telson...

wheres all the posts about looseyfur?

aww come on you take the good you take the bad you take them both and there you have the facts of life ....

develop away telson I am sure theres no way in hell AP will grind to a hault because of it.

anyone who thinks so is nuttier then me.

loo

 

[Telson]

LOL@Looseyfur

I'd also like to see a website that has info available on all the species in the hobby. Somewhat like John Hoke's species info with a bit more info on husbandry. Now THAT would be new and exciting.

A perfect example of someone saying what they'd like to see in a arachnid site, and as a matter of fact, something I'm working on... The concept of having some sort of setup for auctions was also posted, and is another good idea that I decided to run by my room mate to see if he can come up with something functional. These things are not aimed at being "better" than this site, just stuff that isn't out there yet and that I thought would benifit the hobbyist community. I may have some of it done and up next month, and it may be 6 months, and it may fall through for one reason or another and never get put in place on the site, but I'm definately working on things in the background.

 

[esmoot]

Originally posted by looseyfur
its a moot point... not to be confused with an esmoot point.

Nice one dude. A little more of your interesting sence of humor.

; )

 

[MrT]

Re: LOL@Looseyfur

Originally posted by Telson
, but I'm definately working on things in the background.

Don't take this the wrong way, but from what I've seen, you've been here all day. Maybe your jumping back and forth. :?
I checked it out.

Ernie

 

[Telson]

Yup. I've been checking the thread periodicly from the time I was informed of it by someone on my site. Working on things the rest of the time today. Having some SQL issues that can't get resolved until Monday that require serverside intervention, hunting bugs in the boards, and assembling info for other pages for the site, though there is some tech stuff I'll need my room mate to complete before I can start putting it in to a format that will work on the site. Also some things I want to put together that are gonna require a decent digital camera, but that's not in the budget for another 2 wks.

 

[MrDeranged]

Couple of things:

• Not sure where all the "confrontational" comments are coming from. Yes, there are disagreements here from time to time, but that is true in any HEALTHY community. If I wanted a sterile environment, I'd hang out in a hospital.
  
• Not sure where the "attacking the site" comments are coming from. Looks to me like people are having a civil discussion on what they feel are the positive and negative points of the site. If they were attacking it, the posts would be removed as they always are....

Good luck with your site Telson

Scott