Tarantula inbreeding?

[Ungoliant]

I was talkin to a T keeper at the local exotics store and uhm.. well he said he kept babies from his female a genic and got some males and bred one to her..

Does T inbreeding affect the babies??

I would never deliberately breed such close relatives, even if they were mature at the same time.

While I am not aware of any research on the effects of inbreeding in tarantulas, we know generally that prolonged inbreeding often has detrimental effects on animals. This is why so many animals have reproductive/dispersal strategies that help to reduce inbreeding. (For example, male spiders generally mature faster than their female sac-mates.)

It’s unclear what effect inbreeding has on spiders or how many generations of inbreeding they can tolerate before things go awry. Anecdotally, some have observed problems after three generations of inbreeding. (However, there are some tarantula species whose domestic stock are all descended from a small number of imported spiders, and no one has noticed any problems that have been definitively attributed to inbreeding.)

While they are not spiders, I have noticed with my mealworms that after several generations of inbreeding, I started seeing a lot of bad molts. Adding a cup of fresh mealworms seems to have solved this problem. EulersK noticed a similar issue with his dubia colony, which was resolved by adding new males.

Here's some anecdotal evidence. About a year ago, my dubia colony started going downhill. Males maturing with no wings, dwarfism running rampant, females with no antenna, and so on. That colony of tens of thousands is the result of two breeding pairs that I got for free a few years ago. The inbreeding started to catch up. Luckily, a small influx of a few dozen males every year keeps those issues at bay. It doesn't take much to mix up the genetic pool, is what I'm saying.

 

[advan]

Where do you guys think most of the spiders we have in the hobby came from? Many species were smuggled out with only a few individuals from closed countries............

 

[Pyrelitha]

Where do you guys think most of the spiders we have in the hobby came from? Many species were smuggled out with only a few individuals from closed countries............

Doesnt mean its good to purposefully force incest today, yeah? Even if all are closely related the farther we can get it the better

 

[viper69]

Many species were smuggled out with only a few individuals from closed countries

And still are...

 

[8 legged]

And still are...

...and it will stay that way until governments find an alternative solution (which will probably take some time) to ensure targeted and well-thought-out extraction!

 

[advan]

Doesnt mean its good to purposefully force incest today, yeah? Even if all are closely related the farther we can get it the better

How do you know you are getting further away? What makes you think you are not getting a MM that is closely related to your female? Just because it came from say, the other side of the country?

If anybody is that concerned about inbreeding, only buy WC spiders.

 

[l4nsky]

How do you know you are getting further away? What makes you think you are not getting a MM that is closely related to your female? Just because it came from say, the other side of the country?

If anybody is that concerned about inbreeding, only buy WC spiders.

https://arachnoboards.com/threads/tarantula-inbreeding.344004/post-3164709

 

[advan]

https://arachnoboards.com/threads/tarantula-inbreeding.344004/post-3164709

The issue with that is most US dealers import from the same stock from Europe.............

What I'm trying to say is it is unavoidable in this hobby if you want most the species available in the hobby. Try all you can to prevent it but hobbyists will have to come to terms with it and except it is part of the hobby.

 

[l4nsky]

The issue with that is most US dealers import from the same stock from Europe.............

What I'm trying to say is it is unavoidable in this hobby if you want most the species available in the hobby. Try all you can to prevent it but hobbyists will have to come to terms with it and except it is part of the hobby.

Agreed (and I have), but coming to terms with it is not the same as blatantly engaging in it without at least attempting to secure different bloodlines. I know animals can recover from genetic bottlenecks (didn't genetic studies show that cheetahs get bottlenecked to like 10 individuals at some point in their history or am I remembering that wrong?), but they are more vulnerable to extinction because of it.

 

[Pyrelitha]

How do you know you are getting further away? What makes you think you are not getting a MM that is closely related to your female? Just because it came from say, the other side of the country?

If anybody is that concerned about inbreeding, only buy WC spiders.

Ok so this is dumb lol sorry. If I know for a 100% fact this spider is the child of the female I plan to breed.... this 100% of the time is incest. If I buy a seperate male from a seperate human, the chance is not 100, I cant guarentee it being 0, but I can try for less than 100.
And for WCs, actually yeah im fine with them if they're legally and sustainably sourced by good intentioned individuals that are working to help the species. For example a poecilotheria would not be harvested by good intentioned sellers, while they could find a T albo pretty easily and legally take one without breaking the law I would imagine. Even then still aint 0%.just massively closer to 0

 

[taranbandido]

Ok so this is dumb lol sorry. If I know for a 100% fact this spider is the child of the female I plan to breed.... this 100% of the time is incest. If I buy a seperate male from a seperate human, the chance is not 100, I cant guarentee it being 0, but I can try for less than 100.
And for WCs, actually yeah im fine with them if they're legally and sustainably sourced by good intentioned individuals that are working to help the species. For example a poecilotheria would not be harvested by good intentioned sellers, while they could find a T albo pretty easily and legally take one without breaking the law I would imagine. Even then still aint 0%.just massively closer to 0

I am only an amateur lover of animals and the only thing I have read from "professionals" and graduates is that there are NO inbreeding problems... But as you say, it is a subject to be discussed... This is very useful for breeders and Nature makes its way as it has been shown with the Komodo dragons that have been studied that a female has made fertile clutches with the problem that the young are only born of the same sex... Due to temperature, consanguinity, genetics?; Ability to store male sperm for long periods of time? Why, within a few degrees of difference in incubation, do they determine whether males or females emerge? There is no reason for arthropods to break the so-called "Mendel's laws"... The different Genera with their Species bifurcate for the same reason, adaptation of genetics with trial and error to the most suitable "individual" for a given ecosystem. .*If you resemble the bark of a certain tree, its offspring will survive because it is better camouflaged*..Does consanguinity not affect a branch of zoology and chromosomes are not altered?..Etc, etc, etc...