T arrived with twisted abdomen, liquid and mites. HELP PLEASE!

[Ultum4Spiderz]

These aren't predatory mites. Predatory mites eat other mites, they don't prey on tarantulas. The "bad" mites are parasitic mites, but if I'm being honest, I don't think these are parasitic mites. The one confirmed case I remember finding on the boards during my avid lurker days was on a confirmed wild caught T and the mites were triangular in shape. These don't look like the images I remember. They look like grain mites that have attached to her injury because they need the moisture.

She looks very near to a molt, so I would leave some organic material in her enclosure to attract the mites and then remove the old molt and all the food once she does molt to remove the mites.

Do you think the ops gamble on caring for the t rather them returning it will pay off ??
I’ve never saved a t from mites or what looks like is wrong with this t.

Hi all

My new psalmopoeus irminia came today, I have a few psalmopoeus but was missing the irminia from my collection so I got one. When she came instead of the 3-4 cm sling i expected i got an 8-10 cm female, i couldn't believe my luck, when I opened her pot she bolted straight for cover i didn't get a good look at her but thought nothing of it and left her to acclimatise. I have come bk i the room to check on her and the phormictopus i ordered with her n noticed she was out, then noticed her abdomen was twisted and appears to have liquid marks in-between her abdomen and carapace, she is also infested with mites.
I have obviously tried to contact the shop i got her from but have had no reply, I am worried about her though and am at a loss what to do. I have never received a t in such poor shape before. The liquid doesn't look like it is leaking anymore so I am not sure if the corn starch trick will help, and I also have a large collection i don't want the mites to spread into my other tarantulas, does anyone have any ideas what I can do because I can't get past 'need to punch the seller in his face! ' sorry panicking. Any help would be appreciated my t's mean the world to me and if theres anything I can do to help her then I need to know.
Thank you in advance.
Picks look gruesome so be warned. View attachment 453465 View attachment 453466 View attachment 453467

She has had a drink and is at the top of her bark but keeps moving around like she can't get comfortable, every 30 seconds or so she changes position but isn't moving from the top of the bark. Please as I said any help is appreciated.

try and remove them if possible or bait them with grains .
Best of luck to the op !! I hope your spider is fine .

 

[l4nsky]

Do you think the ops gamble on caring for the t rather them returning it will pay off ??
I’ve never saved a t from mites or what looks like is wrong with this t.

I think that with proper care and attention to biosecurity (using completely separate tools for husbandry, washing hands, large physical space between the infected and main collection, etc), she stands the best chance of making a recovery with @Charliemum, whether they're parasitic or not.

Again though, I really don't believe these are parasitic. True parasitic mites are exceedingly rare, have an unknown lifecycle that hasn't been replicated in culture (yes, people have apparently tried to cultivate and study them), and can only come in from WC specimens. With all this in mind, what do you think the odds are that a readily captive bred species like P. irminia is being smuggled out of such a restrictive country as Venezuala as opposed to a cosmopolitan detrivorous mite that just needs some moisture?

In other news, when did I get @boina's job because I don't want it lol.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

I think that with proper care and attention to biosecurity (using completely separate tools for husbandry, washing hands, large physical space between the infected and main collection, etc), she stands the best chance of making a recovery with @Charliemum, whether they're parasitic or not.

Again though, I really don't believe these are parasitic. True parasitic mites are exceedingly rare, have an unknown lifecycle that hasn't been replicated in culture (yes, people have apparently tried to cultivate and study them), and can only come in from WC specimens. With all this in mind, what do you think the odds are that a readily captive bred species like P. irminia is being smuggled out of such a restrictive country as Venezuala as opposed to a cosmopolitan detrivorous mite that just needs some moisture?

In other news, when did I get @boina's job because I don't want it lol.

And to think I just gave up on a t over a possible cyst .. rug burn that it was probably save able in my care I just didn’t have the funds to risk it or gamble. So I returned it for $45 . I wish I had grabbed that s cal . I don’t handle my Ts so anyone who sees this it was an extreme example were I was just taking the picture for educational reasons . I won’t do it again most likely .. most my Ts might bite me if I tried it . Was it male?
Maybe I won’t return another t for this reason .. maybe I would ? But it’s barely sick at all compared to the ops t.

 

[The Snark]

They look like grain mites that have attached to her injury because they need the moisture.

She looks very near to a molt, so I would leave some organic material in her enclosure to attract the mites and then remove the old molt and all the food once she does molt to remove the mites.

If grain mites are the case, some moistened rolled oats scattered around is likely to draw them away from the spider. A much more familiar food for them.

 

[Charliemum]

Small update.

Well soon as I got up I checked on Amaterasu my little irminia, she has moved herself behind her bark and is just chilling there. Some of the mites are still on her but some have migrated to the mushroom I left in the corner of her viv so hopefully they are not predatory/parasitic as they have left her for the mushroom.

Amaterasu still doesn't look great though she has knocked most of the flour from her wound which appears to be a split at the side of where her abdomen connects to her carapace. I am hoping this will correct its self after she moults .
Please excuse the flour everywhere she did not want to sit still when I was putting it on where she was leeking/ bleeding,but since she rubbed it off you can see a white see-throughish lump at the side of her abdomen and what looks like her skin coming away from it and as you can see from the wet corn flour it hasn't helped stop the leaking/bleeding. I will carry on with what was suggested so far changing the mushroom for wet oats and hoping she pulls through.
Thank you all for the support in this thread I would have been at a total loss without it, all the links to threads and advice has truly helped . Thank you.

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

Maybe ask hooaharmy about a more radical sealant?

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

Maybe ask hooaharmy about a more radical sealant?

Good plan @HooahArmy can hopefully help op out.

Small update.

Well soon as I got up I checked on Amaterasu my little irminia, she has moved herself behind her bark and is just chilling there. Some of the mites are still on her but some have migrated to the mushroom I left in the corner of her viv so hopefully they are not predatory/parasitic as they have left her for the mushroom. View attachment 453516

Amaterasu still doesn't look great though she has knocked most of the flour from her wound which appears to be a split at the side of where her abdomen connects to her carapace. I am hoping this will correct its self after she moults . View attachment 453517
Please excuse the flour everywhere she did not want to sit still when I was putting it on where she was leeking/ bleeding,but since she rubbed it off you can see a white see-throughish lump at the side of her abdomen and what looks like her skin coming away from it and as you can see from the wet corn flour it hasn't helped stop the leaking/bleeding. I will carry on with what was suggested so far changing the mushroom for wet oats and hoping she pulls through.
Thank you all for the support in this thread I would have been at a total loss without it, all the links to threads and advice has truly helped . Thank you.

looks promising!!

 

[NMTs]

Small update.

Well soon as I got up I checked on Amaterasu my little irminia, she has moved herself behind her bark and is just chilling there. Some of the mites are still on her but some have migrated to the mushroom I left in the corner of her viv so hopefully they are not predatory/parasitic as they have left her for the mushroom. View attachment 453516

Amaterasu still doesn't look great though she has knocked most of the flour from her wound which appears to be a split at the side of where her abdomen connects to her carapace. I am hoping this will correct its self after she moults . View attachment 453517
Please excuse the flour everywhere she did not want to sit still when I was putting it on where she was leeking/ bleeding,but since she rubbed it off you can see a white see-throughish lump at the side of her abdomen and what looks like her skin coming away from it and as you can see from the wet corn flour it hasn't helped stop the leaking/bleeding. I will carry on with what was suggested so far changing the mushroom for wet oats and hoping she pulls through.
Thank you all for the support in this thread I would have been at a total loss without it, all the links to threads and advice has truly helped . Thank you.

I had a Psalmopoeus reduncus with a similar injury when I got him - some small tear in the pedicel that didn't leak much most of the time, but really started gushing when I fed him. It took a couple of feedings to figure out what was going on, but once I did I stopped feeding him and waited for him to molt. It seemed like his injury leaked a little less than your girl's, but not by much. Anyway, about 6 weeks later he molted and didn't have any issues again. Just be sure to keep a water dish topped up for her and feed her very sparingly if at all, and once she makes it to a molt I'm thinking the issue will be corrected. Good to hear the mites are moving off of her!

 

[Charliemum]

Thank you for suggesting and tagging HooahArmy you 2 I am not familiar with them and would greatly appreciate any help I can get with her.

@NMTs I hope you are right and glad to hear your boy survived his ordeal it gives me hope she will be able to correct herself, she has actually webbed up her corkbark so I have my fingers crossed it is a good sign I assume she wouldn't web if she was on deaths door? I also have no intention of feeding her till she moults out unless her abdomen severally decrease in size and if I do have to it will be a small headless freshly moulted mealworm so it's as easy a meal as possible. I will make sure her water dish stays full too. It is glued up a hight on her bark so again it should be very easy for her to access from where she has settled. I really really hope I can help her pull through, getting rid of her mites will hopefully help with that a little at least.
Thank you again everyone I am truly blown away by the support

 

[HooahArmy]

I have heard the clarion call!
Good day, ladies and gentlemen. First of all, I love the name for your gal. Amaterasu. Love it.
All while I'm here with Ts named Corn Bread and the like...

But let's get to business! When clotting wounds on Ts, corn starch and flours are always old winners, but much of how well they help to clot has to do more with the fineness of the grind. To get this image in your head, think of wetting your hand and dipping it in flour, versus dipping it in sand. Which comes off easier and which forms more of a cake?
Some of the best caking powders are cornstarch, unscented baby powder, and WoundSeal blood clotting powder. If I were to rate them, I would place baby powder last due to safety reasons (there's very fine talc, yet I know a breeder who swears by this stuff), fine cornstarch, and then the WoundSeal. Flour is at a coarser grind than cornstarch (unless it sifted fine flour) and tends to come off easily.

The WoundSeal is rather safe and is sold online in places like Amazon for use on people and pets. I have a ton since I'm always getting horribly mangled in one way or another and did get the chance to try it once one day when my old Avic decided to do a leap of faith when I tried to drop her a roach. Long story short, I had no cornstarch anywhere on base, but plenty of WoundSeal. I can't confirm or deny that it's fully safe for inverts due to no laboratory testing on them, but I would vouch that my poor leaky gal had an instant patch in seconds that didn't flake off. It remained until her next molt. Don't look for clotting powders marketed as 'styptic powder' since that stuff tends to have alum and diatomaceous earth, both of which are harmful to inverts. For safety purposes, go with the oldie but goodie cornstarch, but consider the WoundSeal only if a buddy looks grim.

The secret also to applying any powder is targeted application. While a lot of folks think to just roll the T in their powder of choice, the stuff ends up all over them and not enough ends on the wound. The stress of tossing powder on the T and/or rolling them in the stuff can also be stressful. When applying powder, I use a baby's nasal bulb, which also can be picked up online. They're used to siphon snot from your tot, but they can also be used to gently blow a blast of powder where you want.
As for now, keep an eye on your bud and keep your fingers crossed. If they keep rubbing off the patch or if it doesn't seem to stick, try the nasal bulb burst to get more in the wound area. If they start looking quite unwell, you may opt to try the WoundSeal. I wish you both the best.

As for the mites, those are always a doozy. The previously mentioned idea of setting a bait food for the mites is a great idea, and I do that too. However, depending on the type of mite, you might risk them going for the starch/flour too, which can cause a trouble. For now, let's aim for the big problem first and get that clot since it sounds like the mites are on their way off your T. Address your pal if you see the mites getting out of hand, but usually mites do not bother a T and they don't find it annoying when the populations are low. In reality, there's really nothing delicious on a T body that mites seem to like. Many mites are attracted to moisture, so if a T keeps dry, many mites will want to wander off towards the water dish instead. Tom's Big Spiders podcast also once mentioned that over time, Ts can groom mites off themselves.

Feel free to respond with more questions!

 

[Charliemum]

I have heard the clarion call!
Good day, ladies and gentlemen. First of all, I love the name for your gal. Amaterasu. Love it.
All while I'm here with Ts named Corn Bread and the like...

But let's get to business! When clotting wounds on Ts, corn starch and flours are always old winners, but much of how well they help to clot has to do more with the fineness of the grind. To get this image in your head, think of wetting your hand and dipping it in flour, versus dipping it in sand. Which comes off easier and which forms more of a cake?
Some of the best caking powders are cornstarch, unscented baby powder, and WoundSeal blood clotting powder. If I were to rate them, I would place baby powder last due to safety reasons (there's very fine talc, yet I know a breeder who swears by this stuff), fine cornstarch, and then the WoundSeal. Flour is at a coarser grind than cornstarch (unless it sifted fine flour) and tends to come off easily.

The WoundSeal is rather safe and is sold online in places like Amazon for use on people and pets. I have a ton since I'm always getting horribly mangled in one way or another and did get the chance to try it once one day when my old Avic decided to do a leap of faith when I tried to drop her a roach. Long story short, I had no cornstarch anywhere on base, but plenty of WoundSeal. I can't confirm or deny that it's fully safe for inverts due to no laboratory testing on them, but I would vouch that my poor leaky gal had an instant patch in seconds that didn't flake off. It remained until her next molt. Don't look for clotting powders marketed as 'styptic powder' since that stuff tends to have alum and diatomaceous earth, both of which are harmful to inverts. For safety purposes, go with the oldie but goodie cornstarch, but consider the WoundSeal only if a buddy looks grim.

The secret also to applying any powder is targeted application. While a lot of folks think to just roll the T in their powder of choice, the stuff ends up all over them and not enough ends on the wound. The stress of tossing powder on the T and/or rolling them in the stuff can also be stressful. When applying powder, I use a baby's nasal bulb, which also can be picked up online. They're used to siphon snot from your tot, but they can also be used to gently blow a blast of powder where you want.
As for now, keep an eye on your bud and keep your fingers crossed. If they keep rubbing off the patch or if it doesn't seem to stick, try the nasal bulb burst to get more in the wound area. If they start looking quite unwell, you may opt to try the WoundSeal. I wish you both the best.

As for the mites, those are always a doozy. The previously mentioned idea of setting a bait food for the mites is a great idea, and I do that too. However, depending on the type of mite, you might risk them going for the starch/flour too, which can cause a trouble. For now, let's aim for the big problem first and get that clot since it sounds like the mites are on their way off your T. Address your pal if you see the mites getting out of hand, but usually mites do not bother a T and they don't find it annoying when the populations are low. In reality, there's really nothing delicious on a T body that mites seem to like. Many mites are attracted to moisture, so if a T keeps dry, many mites will want to wander off towards the water dish instead. Tom's Big Spiders podcast also once mentioned that over time, Ts can groom mites off themselves.

Feel free to respond with more questions!

Thank you so much for replying and for all the info , I did try to use a cut off pipette to apply the corn flour but soon as she felt it touch her she started moving to get away from it, I hope that is a good sign that she didn't just sit there n let me apply it, but i will carry on tryingto reaply it as she kicks it off, in the mean time i will order the wound stuff just incase it is needed or she gets worse. She's drinking alot of water so I am keeping her dish full and she's moving slow but it's more like a premoult slow so I have hope, and as mentioned previously she has webbed her bark all over it so I am hopeful that is another good sign she is a fighter. Thank you again for your help I know now I am doing all I can and in the right way

And thank you I wanted a name perfect for her sp and I thought the sun goddess was perfect but I don't always get such inspiration with names I have a present coz he was, and a toffee coz that was her colour before she decided to be a brunette instead after a moult between my 75 t's n my so's 350+ I sometimes run dry with naming them... it's alot of t's lol.

 

[HooahArmy]

Alright, here's a bonus. One of my homegirls was reading over my response when I was typing and asked:
"Won't the starch or flour get moldy or spoil?"
That is a great question and I'm sure a lot of folks who put deep thought to their hobby might think the same.
Mold and spoilage occurs the most often in the presence of moisture. If a dusted T in question lives in a tropical environment, humidity in the air and in the substrate might cause that, yet Ts are quite clever and will remove things they realize aren't quite right on their bodies.
Other Ts that are desert or temperate species require less moisture and mold shouldn't form if the substrate is dry and the T isn't going for dunks in the water dish.
To everyone using flour or starch to clot their friend, keep an eye on your pal while they heal. Usually, the patch may fall off in just a few days after the T has stopped the clot themselves. Other Ts might be nonplussed by the rather neutral composition of the starch/flour and just leave the patch on. To ensure that a pal isn't at risk, watch the patch and take note if it starts turning black, blue, green, or any other questionable color. If it does, lower the humidity in your enclosure if you can, which may result in the patch drying and falling off. Otherwise, check if the T will remove the patch themselves once they notice a growth. I can imagine either of these occurring (just as a postulate), but if a T is growing shrooms and is doing nothing about it, the worst that can happen is that you may help them out, yet so far I haven't read a single post or heard a single tale on clotting patches going rogue.

 

[The Snark]

Excuse me for interrupting the corn starch, but what about Dermabond or Surgiseal? Cyanoacrylates approved for closing human wounds? @HooahArmy Brain squeezer. Low toxcity for humans so what about exoskeletals?

Some of the mites are still on her but some have migrated to the mushroom

If they are munching the shrooms or other, odds are extremely good they aren't parasitic. There are a few parasitic mites where the males are herbivores but I don't think that's the norm and they are very short lived.

Just checked. Three different formulas of super glue and a wide variety of name brands approved for topical use.

 

[HooahArmy]

@The Snark
Ah! Consider this brain squeezed!
Although Surgiseal and Dermabond are two items I have researched, they are not readily available to the general public at a non-crippling price, lest one raids a medical department. They appear on Amazon after a quick look, but the prices are $200+ and require a healthcare license for purchase. If someone has some around, it can be a viable option, but just less common than cornstarch.
As for superglue, it does work, but the bonding strength and speed are hassles to work with. If I apply it to a T, I'm concerned that they may move around and accidentally bond their legs to their body, legs to other legs, or bond with whatever they contact, leaving a mess or even a stuck situation. I also don't know how the glue might impact the T during a molt. The Army speaks of superglue frequently for wounds, yet I've never used it on skin myself since there have been equal numbers of 'the bleeding stopped' stories mingled with the 'I glued my knee to my pants' tales. The closest thing I found to topical superglue that didn't require a healthcare license to purchase online was Liquid Skin. The med supply page I accessed didn't have a ingredient list, but reviews did state that the stuff takes forever to dry. I suppose that may work too, but for basics in accessibility, affordability, safety, and ease of acquisition, I'll go with the starch. However, that doesn't pertain to the few lucky folks who might have those items on hand.
Arachnogang, have you or anyone else had good or bad experiences with superglue and a T? Perhaps another adhesive? The Snark has piqued my intrigue and now I am curious!!!

 

[The Snark]

Although Surgiseal and Dermabond are two items I have researched, they are not readily available to the general public at a non-crippling price, lest one raids a medical department.

Bleeping numerous serious expletives deleted anal retentive medical in the US and the sheeples that swallow the BS hook, line and sinker. 350 baht a pop here. About $12-$14 Clearly labeled Not For Export. OTC no less.
It isn't just Pharma Bro, the entire medical supply chain is a long row of low life shysters. Seen that so many times. Antibiotics OTC here, prescription only in the US starting at 500% higher price. I remember when Viagra made the scene here. $30 a pill. Local version, same chemical, $2.

Private comedy going on at present. Car 100 feet down the road, half way into the canal. Wide open country road, very light traffic, went straight at the canal. I wonder what TikTok she was watching while she was talking on her phone. (Yes, I checked. No injuries.)

 

[Charliemum]

@HooahArmy I have looked for wound seal and found it on line it says it is the actual wound seal brand comes in a pack of 4 and it says the ingredients are polymer and potassium ferrate I wanted to check it was the right one before I got it? I would rather have it in stock n not need it then need it n not have it. I have a little t medi pack as it were with corn flour, cotton buds, small tweezers, soft small paint brushes ect and I would like to add this too, as I said I would rather be safe then sorry.

 

[The Snark]

are polymer

@HooahArmy I'm sure it's possible to get more ambiguous than 'polymer', but nothing is immediately coming to mind.

@Charliemum I suppose you just just give it a try. On yourself. Apply a dot on the inside of your arm which is quite sensitive, and see if there is any reaction. Pain, swelling, redness, arm falls off. The usual highly scientific tests.

 

[Charliemum]

I shall try that once it comes thank you Snark

 

[HooahArmy]

@HooahArmy I have looked for wound seal and found it on line it says it is the actual wound seal brand comes in a pack of 4 and it says the ingredients are polymer and potassium ferrate I wanted to check it was the right one before I got it? I would rather have it in stock n not need it then need it n not have it. I have a little t medi pack as it were with corn flour, cotton buds, small tweezers, soft small paint brushes ect and I would like to add this too, as I said I would rather be safe then sorry.

Good job at looking at the ingredients! I'd be curious about the polymer too, and to make a long story short, they're relatively safe in the type used on people, whether they are synthetic or natural. Let's break em' down:

Since I couldn't find a full product list, I opted to take the product's word that it was 'non-toxic', given that the FDA heavily regulates the use of this word due to legalities. A product that's non-toxic with a polymer will likely have a low biotoxicity plastic-like substance if it's synthetic polymer, or a natural polymer like seaweed saccharides or plant/animal proteins. The product's statement that it's 'hydrophilic' is just fancy way of saying 'fluid-loving' or 'fluid absorbing'. Most natural polymers like agar, chitosan, or collagen are very good at doing this compared to a synthetic polymer, so we could speculate that the polymer therein could be natural. I'm going to base this too of an old pack of blood clotting powder from my cabinet which I'm looking at now that reads: chitosan. Agar and collagen behave very much like chitosan; that stuff comes from the shells of shellfish. Agar is a type of sticky algae used in food prep. Collagen is a naturals protein found in a lot of meats.

As for the potassium ferrate, that's a fancy way of saying 'iron salt'. We use this guy in labs a lot since it's a great oxidizer that clumps up on contact with fluid and is strong enough for sewage treatment at getting rid of bacteria and other organic junk by binding to it. It's a very clean and safe ingredient and is relatively non-hazardous to critters and the environment; a top on chemical 'green' lists.

The Bottom Line:
Hydrophilic polymer: Likely a organic polymer from plants or animal derivation. 'Hydrophilic' means it likes to siphon water and will help clump to form a seal.
Potassium ferrate: An iron salt. This is used to clump and pull toxins and bacteria away, encapsulating them and not letting go. In the wound powder, it will keep baddies from re-entering the wound.

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

@HooahArmy my best friend is a nurse who swears by New Skin Bandage for people (a liquid bandage like you were referring to above). The ingredients are:

Benzethonium chloride 0.2%
Amyl acetate
Camphor
Ethyl acetate
Ethyl alcohol
N-butyl acetate
Nitrocellulose