Some Sick Ppl Out There

[JayzunBoget]

Try to pay attention this time.

I am not trying to save the wasp.

The wasps don't need me for that, they have their own strategy that seems to be working out for them just fine.

Like Choobaine said, they've got the numbers thing going pretty good.
What I am responding to is the attitude of shock and outrage that these creatures could have some value worth more than the casual amusement of their extinction. If I saw a child stomping on ant for its own amusement, I would have the same reaction.
I don't think that either Choobaine, Cirith, or perhaps any of the people who've disparaged having any distaste for such behavior see how harsh and dismissive you have come off.

...I feel this is outrageous, people are getting upset over invert jewellry!

trivial AND subjective.

Let me ask, do you think you really deserve a serious answer?

It is NOT the same, the invertebrates are just that, INVERTS!

Again, this is not abut saving the wasp but the attitude that its life is so meaningless as to merit ridicule if one should stand up and say, "hey, that's not right."
Let's go back to the metaphor of the small child stomping on ants. They, also, are inverts. Would I be wrong in trying to stop him? Now what if the child were, instead, a bored adult waiting at a bus stop? I, myself, would have the balls to call him on his callous behavior.
How, then, is this any different?

I wonder if you're putting on this show of the avatar because my previous post caught you with your pants down. You have surely not denied that its contents fit you, and putting down this much work into trying to tickle my emotions has with certainty its counterpart in your head, otherwise you wouldn't have done it. No problem though. It's quite a nice avatar

Have you read anything that I have written? That's okay, you don't have to. Everything you have said in relationship to me suggests again and again that this is so. Caught me with my pants down? No. Dismissed everything that I had to say? Yes, quite thoroughly. Oh, well, the avatar has broken no ground, either, but at least it amuses the hell out of me. It is a nice avatar. It took me perhaps 30 seconds in photoshop to alter.
Oh, well. Attitudes don't rilly change in my experience. There are those of you who see the animal kingdom, or perhaps the lowest among it, as little more than playthings for the adult child. I don't sweep in front of me when I walk, I eat meat pretty much everyday, but I don't kill for idle amusement. I find those that do as well as those that condone such behavior distasteful.
That is the point that I have tried to make, throughout.

 

[JayzunBoget]

I've been searching for the book with this picture in it since yesterday. This is Professor Sam Marshall, author of Barron's Tarantulas an Other Arachnids and possibly the worlds foremost authority on Theraphosa blondi. He is pictured here in French Guiana, where he travels twice a year to work on blondi population mapping. He is holding a large blondi that has been caught, killed and cast in resin as a tourist trinket.
Now please tell me what is wrong with that practice that is not wrong with spray painting wasps?
I will admit, at the onset, that I myself have a much stronger reaction to this picture than the seeds of this particular thread. The latter inspires distaste and the former repugnance. But, at the heart of the matter, what's the differance. I've asked this all along.

Ok. Well why is this trivial?
Were dealing with invertebrates...Thank you, come again.

 

[ShadowBlade]

I will admit, at the onset, that I myself have a much stronger reaction to this picture than the seeds of this particular thread. The latter inspires distaste and the former repugnance. But, at the heart of the matter, what's the differance. I've asked this all along.

lol.. There is no difference. When I went to Ecuador and Peru for a trip, I brought back a nice big glass display of cool bugs.. and there was a Pamphobeteous in it. I sure didn't lose any sleep over it, they kill them like wasps down there. eek: *oops, wrong example to use here.)

-Sean

 

[JayzunBoget]

lol.. There is no difference. When I went to Ecuador and Peru for a trip, I brought back a nice big glass display of cool bugs.. and there was a Pamphobeteous in it. I sure didn't lose any sleep over it, they kill them like wasps down there. eek: *oops, wrong example to use here.)

-Sean

Actually, Sean, I think you used exactly the correct example to use here. That truly does sum it up and shed light on every aspect of this discussion.
I thought that there was a difference, but I find myself outside the mainstream in so many things that I think. That post, I now think, typifies the prevailing mindset on this matter.
If that is the case, there is no point in my arguing to the contrary. I give up, I fold. Think, consume, waste what you will. All of this will still go on, but without me. I still refuse that mindset, set of values.

 

[ShadowBlade]

If that is the case, there is no point in my arguing to the contrary. I give up, I fold. Think, consume, waste what you will. All of this will still go on, but without me. I still refuse that mindset, set of values.

Well, continue one in your belief you are so much above us morally, by not spray-painting wasps, (which I'm not particularly advocating here, just saying its not that big a deal).

While you drive to work tomorrow and kill countless dragonflies, bees, wasps, mosquitoes, gnats, along with everyone else on the highway, *murdering* millions of bugs by the minute. Carry on, oh enlightened one...

I'll just keep on doing my quiet, reasonable respect for life, and not shouting out and acting so self-righteous when I see someone else committing a rather trivial act.

-Sean

 

[JColt]

Sweet Jesus! I've seen less arguing over politics.

And yes, speciest is a word but why argue over it? :wall:

 

[Cirith Ungol]

...

Ok, here is what I reacted to: You said that the casual feel of some people's attitudes towards the topic was distasteful, that includes showing outrage at "casual amusement". Then you try to equate killing off a wasp with:

Should we euthanise and chrome children?

Excuse me for reacting to your over-reaction! And then what? You're outraged at me and probably someone else because of our attitudes? You're putting words and phrases into our mouths that arn't even close to what was suggested.

I don't even know what to say about your comparisons. Let me ask, who hasn't read what? How did you know my attitude was equal to "casual amusement"? I sure didn't say "Chrome plating wasps is fun" or anything like it.

attitude that seemed (to me) to not afford any value whatsoever to this "lower life form".

Not any value whatsoever? That's where you're wrong, because you're making it out to be a thing that is about "lower life form"s as a cathegory. But we're not talking about entire cathegories, we're talking about a single wasp. And as response to your recent posts, it's not about a chrome wasp tourist industry, it's about a single wasp. And what, in that context would 3, 4, 5 wasps do? Not much more. We're not talking thousands of wasps, or tens of thousands, but in keeping of the original topic we're talking about 1 wasp, a wasp.

You could say that this:

there seems to be an eagerness to ascribe certain values to lives

means something. However, if you go back you'll see I didn't ascribe ANY value at all to anything, neither positive nor negative. I stayed out of it. I don't know what you might have read that to be?

But no, I can't say a single wasp or other single insect from a relatively stable population gets me worked up that much if killed for no vital reason. But then you say you aren't out to save the wasp either. Meaning you don't really care about a single wasp either or did I get you wrong there?

Curiosity, I admitted to that much of a reason, but I'm curious because one of my backgrounds is as a metal worker and I'm really curious if chrome actually sticks to chitin. And no, if I felt I just had to test it (which you have no way of knowing if I actually do or not - just in case you're getting fired up for your next rant) and the only way of getting my hands on an insect to try it on, was to kill it, then I'd do it. But that doesn't mean I equate killing a wasp to euthanizing a child, just for the record, before anyone gets even more confused.

There are those of you who see the animal kingdom, or perhaps the lowest among it, as little more than playthings for the adult child.

You said that! That's your attitude, and it has been all along, from before my first response to you. What you are the most outraged at is not what people have said, but at what you started thinking they said. I don't see the animal kingdom as a plaything for anyone. But you said I (or should I say "you" or "we"?) do. I don't think it's worth losing sleep over the death of a wasp that gets chromed. It doesn't mean anything more than that. Doesn't mean I go pouring petrol on an ant hill, doesn't mean I torture wasps to death for my amusement. Or whatever it is you think. It sure as hell doesn't mean I or anyone else for that matter is indifferent to the death of a child, as you tried to suggest! Appearantly I have a problem understanding what you think, because on one side you really get quite fired up, and on the other you're not that bothered, because you're not out to save a wasp. What exactly are you out to do? Fighting an attitude that nobody has displayed, good work mate!

 

[JMoran1097]

wait, why was I told to back off, Crith Ungol?

 

[JMoran1097]

Well, continue one in your belief you are so much above us morally, by not spray-painting wasps, (which I'm not particularly advocating here, just saying its not that big a deal).

While you drive to work tomorrow and kill countless dragonflies, bees, wasps, mosquitoes, gnats, along with everyone else on the highway, *murdering* millions of bugs by the minute. Carry on, oh enlightened one...

I'll just keep on doing my quiet, reasonable respect for life, and not shouting out and acting so self-righteous when I see someone else committing a rather trivial act.

-Sean

FOR THE LAST TIME, jesus christ, this is NOT what the premise of the argument was, AT ALL!

i'm not going to reiterate myself because you need to go back and re-read.

 

[ShadowBlade]

FOR THE LAST TIME, jesus christ, this is NOT what the premise of the argument was, AT ALL!

i'm not going to reiterate myself because you need to go back and re-read.

Nice to meet you JayzunBoget.

-Sean

 

[JMoran1097]

Jazun's demeanor is considered angry because?

 

[Stylopidae]

Sweet Jesus! I've seen less arguing over politics.

And yes, speciest is a word but why argue over it? :wall:

Not according to any of the three dictionaries I have at my desk...or dictionary.com.

I mean, really. It's such a stupid term. It has no usage in sociology or biology. The only people who use the term are animal rights activists who are generally idiots who will go as far as to ignore the biology of the animals they're trying to 'save'.

Are predators and parasites speciest?

What about herbivores? Or would they be kingdomist?

Are doctors who specialize in discovering new antibiotics domainist?

God...you guys argue over the dumbest crap. You know that?

There's half a billion people starving out there...there's people trying to erase concepts which have saved the lives of billions from science books...there are viruses ravaging our populace that become resistant to our marginally effective drugs faster than we can produce them...and similarly there are antibiotic resistant bacteria which we can't kill even with antibiotics that are generally only used to kill resistant bacteria.

You're arguing over what someone does with a wasp that's already dead.

Some days, I am ashamed to be a part of the human race.

 

[Stylopidae]

I'll just grind this in...

and yes, the morons in this thread just keep arguing in circles which is making you look foolish, not your opinions. And since when did anyone inroduce a pc aspect to this?

As a future entomologist and an evolutionary biologist, I will be responsible for studying how insects become resistant to pesticides as well as how they adapt and speciate over time in response to changing environments.

I will use the information I gain from studying how insects do the things above to create new and imaginative ways to kill them.

In the course of my career, I will personally kill billions of insects. The people who follow in my footsteps will kill billions more. Trillions, probably.

The people whose footsteps I am following have already killed billions.

However, the technologies I will help develop will save billions of lives.

If chrome-plating a wasp that's already dead gets your waterworks going, then the Sterile Insect Technique will probably make you crap your pants and prepare your sandwich boards.

However the SIT, which involves the sterilization of millions insects at a time through exposure to Cobalt-60, alone is responsible for the eradication of sleeping sickness in some of the most impoverished nations in the world.

Just eliminating the disease has saved millions of lives...and because the disease no longer effects livestock (it's completely gone) beef production alone has at least doubled...preventing more human deaths from starvation.

Oh...and we used this technique to completely eradicate the screw-worm, saving the US beef industry about $200 million per year.

You know what?

I'm going to love this job.

 

[ironmonkey78]

wow

I think this post went in a hundred different directions. lots of overreactions on both sides of the argument. and after the first couple postings there really wasnt an argument. just arguing. can't believe I actually read it. LOL. personally I would have been more P.O'd that she shoved them into the nintendo 64. if you read other posts they actually have a link to this thread.

 

[hairmetalspider]

.....orrrr maybe it's because of the exact attitude you displayed with this post, that you are somehow automatically morally superior, and those of us who have a different opinion do so only out of willful ignorance.

And you have the balls to call US arrogant? Unbelieveble. Who the heck gave you permission to have the moral high ground here?

It's a case and point. There are people who will not listen. Therefore, you're wasting your time trying to converse. It doesn't really matter what they believe in or who they are.

Unless you like to argue with brick walls, I think people's time can be better spent. That's just me though.

 

[hairmetalspider]

What this boils down to is, if you don't like it don't do it or buy one. I don't agree with needlessly killing anything to make jewelry out of it, so I don't do it and will most likely not buy one. The people comparing euthanizing a wasp to murder hopefully don't own ANYTHING made of any animal, but somehow I doubt that.

Do people count? Because I'm from Wisconsin, and well...it just seems kind of customary here.

 

[jpet]

Do people count? Because I'm from Wisconsin, and well...it just seems kind of customary here.

An Ed Gein reference, now this post is complete;P

 

[Stylopidae]

.....orrrr maybe it's because of the exact attitude you displayed with this post, that you are somehow automatically morally superior, and those of us who have a different opinion do so only out of willful ignorance.

And you have the balls to call US arrogant? Unbelieveble. Who the heck gave you permission to have the moral high ground here?

One thing I've noticed in these posts is that the people who get pissed off about things like this generally have no idea how the world works. Either that or they just don't think about anything at all. They're the ignorant ones...and often times, it's entertaining to watch. That is, until they start in with the Hitler refrences.

Half the people in this thread would consider my carreer description genocide, despite the fact that the stuff I hope to help develop one day will save billions of lives.

Oh, well...I'll just let the keyboard commandoes have thier fun while I laugh at their trivial moral high ground while knowing full well the very fact they're alive means they're responsible for the deaths of billions of insects.

I mean, seriously...does anyone honestly think that Jmoran...whatever the rest of his alias is...would actually speak out against someone stomping on an ant?

 

[Pulk]

chesh, shouldn't your signature say 'trichotomy'?

 

[Mister Internet]

I mean, seriously...does anyone honestly think that Jmoran...whatever the rest of his alias is...would actually speak out against someone stomping on an ant?

According to his own reasoning and admissions in this very thread, if it was done 'on purpose' instead of 'accidentally', he absolutely would.

For some reason, KNOWING that driving your car around is killing hundreds of insects an hour, and doing it anyway because it's a 'necessity', is different than killing a few wasps with gas and spray painting them... because chrome-plated wasps aren't a 'necessity', and cars are... or something... I got confused there towards the end.

It seems that deciding to kill bugs is worse than deciding to do something during which bugs will be killed... doesn't stand up to the least resistance from simple logic, but it seems to be the ethos we're up against.