Shipping Accountability

MizM

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O.K., I've heard enough horror stories about handling during shipping. We CAN do something about it! The shippers MUST BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE!

Assuming the shipping company is aware theat they are handling live creatures, they are RESPONSIBLE for the safe shipment of said creatures. I've read the post on our esteemed certified arachnodealers, they are doing an excellent job of packaging Ts so that, even if there IS some knocking around of the box they are still well cushioned.

We ALL need to report these damaged shipments to the company that shipped them. Don't think "complaint", think "feedback." As a supervisor, there are a lot of things that happen in my dept. that I am not aware of. I practically beg for feedback, positive and negative, and use it to IMPROVE conditions. If EVERY ONE OF US reports our negative shipping experience, they will begin to hear us.

Have documentation, photos if possible, or even better, the actual "damaged" product. Get the name of the delivery person if possible. Get letters from the dealer stating the packaging process and condition of the specimen upon departure.

LET'S FIGHT BACK AND TEACH THESE ROUGHNECKS TO TREAT OUR PACKAGES WITH CARE!!!!!
 

Tarantula Lover

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I agree! We should do something about it! (BTW-did you change your name? wasnt it Terridumonte?)



James
 

MizM

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:D Yes I did, I got married, my new last name is Millard, so I kinda liked MizM!:D

But I'm still just Terri!
 

Mister Internet

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erm..... not to rain on the parade, but....

A lot of these shipping carriers aren't necessarily aware that they're transporting live and possibly very venomous inverts. If nobody draws attention to it, then nobody's the wiser. If a bunch of us make a big stink that they're not being gentle enough with our bugs, they may just decide... ok, we just won't ship bugs anymore!

The fact is, if the bugs are packed very well, I don't see how, short of dropping the box off a two-story building or standing on it, they could really damage the inverts... if the complaint is because of a DOA due to the fact that the box was in transit for 4 days instead of the overnight that was paid for, then you have a legitimate beef, based on the fact that you can say, " I needed it by XYZ, but it arrived 3 days late." You have the right to a refund in that case. But if it's just, "You handled my bugs too rough!" How can anything be proved? Also, wouldn't it just be smarter for the shipping companies to stop shipping inverts of they're going to be such a hassle?

I dunno... I guess I need to actually have a bad shipping experience to sympathize, but I don't see how raising a stink with the carriers will help... and I could see it very possibly getting inverts banned from the carriers that decide they're too much trouble. Then, we're right back where we started...
 

Slide

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Actually, in my experience, most carriers either have rules explicitly disallowing shipping of living creatures in general, or disallowing arachnids one way or another, and as such -- bringing shipping mishaps to their attention might actually cause the dealer/shipper to have future problems shipping T's to anyone, anywhere...

While I agree, it'd be nice to hold shipping companies accountable, I can't emphasise enough -- Always always always make sure you know and understand the shipping companies policies BEFORE bringing it to their attention. :)
 

Godzilla2000

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Well from my own experience, I think Shippers need to be more conscientious about something that says "Fragile" on the box. The Fed Ex guy that handed me the box with my C. fasciatum and A. texense just thrust it forward with a sudden, jerking motion. I think he was somewhat surprised when I gingerly set it down on a chair before signing his little sign in sheet. It's almost like these guys know when you have boughten an expensive, delicate pet. I think we should rally up the Spider dealers as well so that they can make certain these callous shippers do the best job they can. Because in the end, the shipper's negligence is costing them money. We the buyers and Sellers need to join forces to bring forth better service from these shippers.
 

Godzilla2000

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Originally posted by Mister Internet
erm..... not to rain on the parade, but....

A lot of these shipping carriers aren't necessarily aware that they're transporting live and possibly very venomous inverts. If nobody draws attention to it, then nobody's the wiser. If a bunch of us make a big stink that they're not being gentle enough with our bugs, they may just decide... ok, we just won't ship bugs anymore!

The fact is, if the bugs are packed very well, I don't see how, short of dropping the box off a two-story building or standing on it, they could really damage the inverts... if the complaint is because of a DOA due to the fact that the box was in transit for 4 days instead of the overnight that was paid for, then you have a legitimate beef, based on the fact that you can say, " I needed it by XYZ, but it arrived 3 days late." You have the right to a refund in that case. But if it's just, "You handled my bugs too rough!" How can anything be proved? Also, wouldn't it just be smarter for the shipping companies to stop shipping inverts of they're going to be such a hassle?

I dunno... I guess I need to actually have a bad shipping experience to sympathize, but I don't see how raising a stink with the carriers will help... and I could see it very possibly getting inverts banned from the carriers that decide they're too much trouble. Then, we're right back where we started...
Well that's not necessarily true. When I called Fed Ex about my shipment, I just told them there were live creatures in there. Now the dispatcher could have thought I had anything from turtles to frogs. But she came out and said, "They're Tarantulas right?" So they are pretty aware of what's in the box. These courier services have to open the box once it gets to the designated delivery drop off point for the area to check the contents. And let's face it, a driver or shipping company isn't dumb. When they see a name like "Invertepet" or "E-Spiderworld" on a package, they know exactly what's in the box.
 

Mister Internet

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Originally posted by Godzilla2000
Well that's not necessarily true. When I called Fed Ex about my shipment, I just told them there were live creatures in there. Now the dispatcher could have thought I had anything from turtles to frogs. But she came out and said, "They're Tarantulas right?" So they are pretty aware of what's in the box. These courier services have to open the box once it gets to the designated delivery drop off point for the area. And let's face it, a driver or shipping company isn't dumb. When they see a name like "Invertepet" or "E-Spiderworld" on a package, they know exactly what's in the box.
Assumptions do not a fact make... myself and Slide were only trying to get people to think instead of making some bleeding heart campaign out of this. The simple fact is that, if T's, pedes, or whatever are SECURELY packed inside their individual containers, the paper towel, forest moss, or whatever filler is sed will almost completely absorb any shock for the "jerking motions" you describe. The notion that ANY delivery company can afford to have delivery personnel wasting time by "gingerly" handling packages is laughable... please try to think through the economic ramifications of what you're proposing. They are aware the package is FRAGILE, but that just means "don't toss them in the truck.... TOO hard..." They have hundreds of packages to deliver on any given day, and you can't expect that they're going to treat your "little babies" with any more consideration than the next package. Just accept it as a reality of shipping, and make the DEALERS accountable to pack their stuff correctly.

Again... late shipment? Legitimate beef. "You handled my babies too rough!" Not going to get you anywhere... if you want white-glove handling, hire a courier service. Of course, that would only be about $2000 for a hand-delivered package cross-country...
 

Godzilla2000

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Originally posted by Mister Internet
Assumptions do not a fact make... myself and Slide were only trying to get people to think instead of making some bleeding heart campaign out of this. The simple fact is that, if T's, pedes, or whatever are SECURELY packed inside their individual containers, the paper towel, forest moss, or whatever filler is sed will almost completely absorb any shock for the "jerking motions" you describe. The notion that ANY delivery company can afford to have delivery personnel wasting time by "gingerly" handling packages is laughable... please try to think through the economic ramifications of what you're proposing. They are aware the package is FRAGILE, but that just means "don't toss them in the truck.... TOO hard..." They have hundreds of packages to deliver on any given day, and you can't expect that they're going to treat your "little babies" with any more consideration than the next package. Just accept it as a reality of shipping, and make the DEALERS accountable to pack their stuff correctly.

Again... late shipment? Legitimate beef. "You handled my babies too rough!" Not going to get you anywhere... if you want white-glove handling, hire a courier service. Of course, that would only be about $2000 for a hand-delivered package cross-country...
Well the truth of the matter is that I paid $125 for two spiders. The shipper neglected to treat my package with the care it deserved and I have my most expensive Tarantula dead on arrival and my other one going through a harrowing experience. If somebody were to board an airline with a pet like a dog or cat, entrusting that the airline will take good care of it while in transit as they sit in the passenger area of the plane worrying to death about theior little member of the family, and then a mishap occurs that forces the Cat or Dog owner to have to bring it to a vet, wouldn't people speak out about the cruelty the Vertebrate suffered? Why can't there be fairness for invertebrates who are more delicate than vertebrates? When a package is labeled "Delicate" regardless of what is in it, the driver shouldn't be jostling it about in their hands and thrusting it roughly and callously at the person receiving it. After what happened yesterday I'm just pretty angry. It was an avoidable thing if these idiot drivers would just learn to ring my doorbell staring right at them instead of knocking. I can't hear a blasted thing from my bedroom unless they use the doorbell. As it stood, those poor things had to endure 3 1/2 straight hours in a cold vehicle before getting to my warm apartment. I'm just kind of pissed a $95 Tarantula was the fatality.
 

MizM

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Well, I suppose I have to grudginly agree with Mr. I. I just get really pissed at the poor handling of ALL packages. My best experiences have actually been with the Postal Service, when they get mad, they shoot people, they don't throw things. Anyway, I'm sure grandma has the same beef when she orders a fine bone china teacup and it shows up in a million pieces. It just sucks, that's all!:(
 

Mister Internet

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Originally posted by Godzilla2000
Well the truth of the matter is that I paid $125 for two spiders. The shipper neglected to treat my package with the care it deserved and I have my most expensive Tarantula dead on arrival and my other one going through a harrowing experience. If somebody were to board an airline with a pet like a dog or cat, entrusting that the airline will take good care of it while in transit as they sit in the passenger area of the plane worrying to death about theior little member of the family, and then a mishap occurs that forces the Cat or Dog owner to have to bring it to a vet, wouldn't people speak out about the cruelty the Vertebrate suffered? Why can't there be fairness for invertebrates who are more delicate than vertebrates? When a package is labeled "Delicate" regardless of what is in it, the driver shouldn't be jostling it about in their hands and thrusting it roughly and callously at the person receiving it. After what happened yesterday I'm just pretty angry. It was an avoidable thing if these idiot drivers would just learn to ring my doorbell staring right at them instead of knocking. I can't hear a blasted thing from my bedroom unless they use the doorbell. As it stood, those poor things had to endure 3 1/2 straight hours in a cold vehicle before getting to my warm apartment. I'm just kind of pissed a $95 Tarantula was the fatality.
Ok, you're missing the very basic point here. I will state it more plainly:

ALL shipping carriers, officially, DO NOT ACCEPT INVERTS. Yes, that's correct... EVERY T, pede, and scorp shipped via FedEx, UPS, Airborne, or USPS is technically against the rules! Now, do the carriers enforce all their rules all the time? No, that would be cost-prohibitive. But the simple fact is that if you complain about how they handle your TARANTULAS, which are technically NOT SUPPOSED TO BE SHIPPED AT ALL, then you have no recourse!

EVERYONE engaging in these online and mail-order dealings understands the risks... has your dealer offered to make it right? It's a risk the dealers understand and accept as well.

The only thing you can hope to accomplished is get invert shipping banned AND ENFORCED by the major carriers, and then we'll all be back to buying at shows like the good old days. Is that what you want?

If you know what you're doing, you can send delicate glassware in package that can be dropped with noe problems... it's all in the packing...
 

Godzilla2000

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Originally posted by Mister Internet
Ok, you're missing the very basic point here. I will state it more plainly:

ALL shipping carriers, officially, DO NOT ACCEPT INVERTS. Yes, that's correct... EVERY T, pede, and scorp shipped via FedEx, UPS, Airborne, or USPS is technically against the rules! Now, do the carriers enforce all their rules all the time? No, that would be cost-prohibitive. But the simple fact is that if you complain about how they handle your TARANTULAS, which are technically NOT SUPPOSED TO BE SHIPPED AT ALL, then you have no recourse!

EVERYONE engaging in these online and mail-order dealings understands the risks... has your dealer offered to make it right? It's a risk the dealers understand and accept as well.

The only thing you can hope to accomplished is get invert shipping banned AND ENFORCED by the major carriers, and then we'll all be back to buying at shows like the good old days. Is that what you want?
But I lost a $95 spider. I could care less about laws. I paid $160 total and this is the result. When I'm pissed off I just want to rip a few Fed Ex people a new hole period. There's no use in trying to make a point with me right now. Try back in another week when I receive my replacement C. fasciatum. All those stupid, idiotic, neanderthalic, morons needed to do was ring my frickin' doorbell. I'm going to put a little notice on it stating, "This is my doorbell. I suggest you use it."
 
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Mister Internet

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Alright... I will take these posts of yours to be simple venting and nota prelude to more drastic complaining to the carriers. I was simply afraid that you would start complaining based on emotion and not see the possible ramifications to the hobby that such complaining would cause...

Anyway, if you're receiving a replacement, doesn't that kind of make it all better?
 

Godzilla2000

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Originally posted by Mister Internet
Alright... I will take these posts of yours to be simple venting and nota prelude to more drastic complaining to the carriers. I was simply afraid that you would start complaining based on emotion and not see the possible ramifications to the hobby that such complaining would cause...

Anyway, if you're receiving a replacement, doesn't that kind of make it all better?
It will. I just hope that my A. texense doesn't have a bad molt because of her trauma. She has a huge rump and that either means one of two things: A.) She's gravid B.) She's getting ready to molt. I need to go right now. I have a huge sign I need to make to alert those moronic delivery people that they need to use my doorbell.
 

MizM

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COMPLETE 180 DEGREE TURNAROUND!!!

Gee, I wasn't aware of that Mister I. I'm sorry I started all of this. I ASSumed that, with these carriers handling everything from A-Z, that Ts were acceptable. I feel better for venting and agree with you that if we make a big stink about this, they will prohibit the shipping or our little guys. So, we can just vent it out here, and keep our secret packages a secret so that WE CAN STILL HAVE THEM SHIPPED.

You better get to work on that smiley-with-foot-in-mouth for me, I REALLY am going to need it! :8o
 

Tarantula Lover

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Originally posted by Mister Internet
Assumptions do not a fact make... myself and Slide were only trying to get people to think instead of making some bleeding heart campaign out of this. The simple fact is that, if T's, pedes, or whatever are SECURELY packed inside their individual containers, the paper towel, forest moss, or whatever filler is sed will almost completely absorb any shock for the "jerking motions" you describe. The notion that ANY delivery company can afford to have delivery personnel wasting time by "gingerly" handling packages is laughable... please try to think through the economic ramifications of what you're proposing. They are aware the package is FRAGILE, but that just means "don't toss them in the truck.... TOO hard..." They have hundreds of packages to deliver on any given day, and you can't expect that they're going to treat your "little babies" with any more consideration than the next package. Just accept it as a reality of shipping, and make the DEALERS accountable to pack their stuff correctly.

Again... late shipment? Legitimate beef. "You handled my babies too rough!" Not going to get you anywhere... if you want white-glove handling, hire a courier service. Of course, that would only be about $2000 for a hand-delivered package cross-country...

I have to say Mr.Internet made his point, and i have to agree with him. It really does depend on how well the shipper packs up the t's. BTW- we will see when you get your versicolor! hehe!


James

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Mister Internet

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G2K,

Thanks for the clarification... no hard feelings, I just didn't want you running off on a crusade and ending up doing more harm than good... we all hope your texense comes through it ok...

Terri,

No sweat... it came as a shock to me when I found out kind of the hard way... we all live and learn :)

James,

I will, no worries... ;)
 

Phillip

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Mr I is correct...

Officially none of the common carriers accept live animals. They do however quite often turn their back on this rule and allow it to happen even knowingly. Often the trade off is that the courier will indeed ship them but they accept no responsibility if the package is damaged or late. I know this as fact due to shipping with UPS Airborne and Fedex being what I have done every stinkin day for the last 15 years. :) I handle the dealing with account reps for the above couriers as well as being in charge of all the shipping we do and have also mentioned to them on the side what I do and have gotten the scoop straight from the horses mouth so to speak. None of them will actually give you any grief over shipping with them but they also will not be held accountable for things dying in transit. It is up to you as the shipper to make sure to pack it well enough to survive the journey since you are breaking the rules anyway.

Phil
 

MizM

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Thanks for the insider info!! I have learned much today!

PACK WELL!!
 
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