Rock Python Kills Husky in Fl

[Fulene]

Idiots turning "exotics" loose is a big problem! Here in rural northern OKlahoma,where I live, they recently found a live python in a mop bucket in someone's back yard and now, they found a live giant Tegu lizard (2') scavenging in a trash can. Re: the python, the sheriff or some animal control person said " Oh we don't have to worry about pythons here in northern OK, it gets too cold in the winter" WRONG. These things can adapt! We have weird exotic varieties of fish turning up in our lakes and are beginning to have alligators in the S. part of the state. A lot of the type of people that keep exotics around here are the very LAST people who should be keeping them!

 

[freedumbdclxvi]

Re: the python, the sheriff or some animal control person said " Oh we don't have to worry about pythons here in northern OK, it gets too cold in the winter" WRONG. These things can adapt!

Yes, because a tropical species of python can spontaneously convert from an exothermic to an endothermic animal based on temperature cinditions it has never encountered before.

Please. No amount of "adaptation" a python is capable of will prepare it for ice and snow. Seriously relax. Do a bit of research.

Snark, in case it came off that way, my comment wasn't aimed at you. I think you hit the nail on the head as far as a majority Americentric views are concerned. (And I think examples were unintentionally given in this thread.)

 

[Fulene]

Yes, because a tropical species of python can spontaneously convert from an exothermic to an endothermic animal based on temperature cinditions it has never encountered before.

Please. No amount of "adaptation" a python is capable of will prepare it for ice and snow. Seriously relax. Do a bit of research.

Snark, in case it came off that way, my comment wasn't aimed at you. I think you hit the nail on the head as far as a majority Americentric views are concerned. (And I think examples were unintentionally given in this thread.)

HAHA Nice use of " big words" there. our indigenous reptile species do NOT go about in ice and snow! Ever heard of estivation?
Don't tell me to relax. Invasive species in the environment are a problem.

 

[ShredderEmp]

The topic was dogs and snakes. However, we must get into the war in Afghanistan, nationalism, and the closest to the topic, invasives!

 

[Shell]

I bet this could have all been avoided if the person kept their dog properly restrained, like on a leash. Something a few people don't do and cry when their pet gets hurt.

Keep your dog leashed in your own backyard? If there is no fence or an unsuitable fence then yes, but otherwise it's their backyard and that's the point of a fenced backyard for many pet owners, to let their dog have a safe, responsible outdoor space. We have a privacy fence around our whole backyard, I do not leash my dogs back there...we put up the fence FOR the dogs to be able to safely run and play in our backyard.

 

[Fulene]

The topic was dogs and snakes. However, we must get into the war in Afghanistan, nationalism, and the closest to the topic, invasives!

Well, it IS about invasives isn't it? I mean what dog is prepared to deal with a constrictor big enough to kill it?

---------- Post added 09-14-2013 at 10:25 AM ----------

Keep your dog leashed in your own backyard? If there is no fence or an unsuitable fence then yes, but otherwise it's their backyard and that's the point of a fenced backyard for many pet owners, to let their dog have a safe, responsible outdoor space. We have a privacy fence around our whole backyard, I do not leash my dogs back there...we put up the fence FOR the dogs to be able to safely run and play in our backyard.

I AGREE with you! Children are no longer safe from large invasives. I think FL should go back to managing alligator populations too.

 

[ShredderEmp]

Yes, I guess, but the people who were talking about those invasives were talking about monitors in Oklahoma. Still relevant, but also still a stretch.

 

[Kaimetsu]

Aren't dogs invasive too? What about humans?

Anyways it's completely absurd to think that a python could realistically adapt to an environment with very cold winters. Those invasive species that have done the most damage in this country were all well suited to take over our habitats to begin with. Expecting pythons to evolve to handle cold winters in a generation or two is like expecting them to learn to fly in a generation or two. Those reptile species that can estivate through Oklahoma's winters took many many generations to evolve that ability as they gradually spread into colder climates, and you'll notice they don't get very big, there's a size limit on snakes in cold environments.

 

[freedumbdclxvi]

HAHA Nice use of " big words" there. our indigenous reptile species do NOT go about in ice and snow! Ever heard of estivation?
Don't tell me to relax. Invasive species in the environment are a problem.

I *will* tell you to relax when you honestly believe a tropical species which stays out year round will suddenly know to hibernate during a season it has never encountered. There is a reason that tropical invasives do not establish ouyside of the warmest areas of the warmest states. Again - relax and research will do wonders.

 

[pitbulllady]

Idiots turning "exotics" loose is a big problem! Here in rural northern OKlahoma,where I live, they recently found a live python in a mop bucket in someone's back yard and now, they found a live giant Tegu lizard (2') scavenging in a trash can. Re: the python, the sheriff or some animal control person said " Oh we don't have to worry about pythons here in northern OK, it gets too cold in the winter" WRONG. These things can adapt! We have weird exotic varieties of fish turning up in our lakes and are beginning to have alligators in the S. part of the state. A lot of the type of people that keep exotics around here are the very LAST people who should be keeping them!

NO, these "things" CANNOT "adapt"! There have indeed been several scientific studies to look into just that very scenario, including one conducted right here in South Carolina, where I live, which have conclusively proven that tropical species like pythons CAN NOT ADAPT and WILL DIE when exposed to even OUR relatively mild winters, which pale in comparison to what you experience in OK, on the Great Plains! These snakes have absolutely NO hibernation mechanism whatsoever, and in fact, do just the opposite of what would be needed to survive a winter, moving out into the open, where it's much colder, rather than going underground. This is why reproducing populations of these animals, as opposed to random escapees or even deliberately abandoned animals, are limited to just ONE area of the US-southern Florida. This is the only habitat which has a climate that comes even close to what these snakes are adapted to. I've kept and bred large, tropical constrictors since I was 12, probably for much longer than you've even been alive, so I can claim what you cannot: first-hand, hands-on, up-close, real EXPERIENCE working with them. Experience vs. hearsay, rumors and wives' tales is pretty much a non-contest there.
And HERE'S a big news flash for ya: Alligators are NATIVE to the southern part of Oklahoma! Check out this range map: http://nas2.er.usgs.gov/viewer/GetS...tle=Alligator mississippiensis &speciesid=221 You're moaning and complaining about a NATIVE predator reclaiming part of its original range, claiming that it's an "exotic"!

pitbulllady

 

[ShredderEmp]

Aren't dogs invasive too? What about humans?

Dogs are really just domesticated wolves. Humans are invasive, and we do cause problems in the environment. ANyways, back to the original article. I think that people overreact when attacks happen. Yes, pythons are invasive, but its part of the animal that you brought with it. It's like when people find out sharks are in the Gulf of Mexico. They overreact and there is mass hysteria, but when you think about it, of course they are in the gulf. They live there!

Pythons live in Florida now, and we might have just really screwed up that environment permanently.

 

[lancej]

NO, these "things" CANNOT "adapt"! There have indeed been several scientific studies to look into just that very scenario, including one conducted right here in South Carolina, where I live, which have conclusively proven that tropical species like pythons CAN NOT ADAPT and WILL DIE when exposed to even OUR relatively mild winters, which pale in comparison to what you experience in OK, on the Great Plains! These snakes have absolutely NO hibernation mechanism whatsoever, and in fact, do just the opposite of what would be needed to survive a winter, moving out into the open, where it's much colder, rather than going underground. This is why reproducing populations of these animals, as opposed to random escapees or even deliberately abandoned animals, are limited to just ONE area of the US-southern Florida. This is the only habitat which has a climate that comes even close to what these snakes are adapted to. I've kept and bred large, tropical constrictors since I was 12, probably for much longer than you've even been alive, so I can claim what you cannot: first-hand, hands-on, up-close, real EXPERIENCE working with them. Experience vs. hearsay, rumors and wives' tales is pretty much a non-contest there.
And HERE'S a big news flash for ya: Alligators are NATIVE to the southern part of Oklahoma! Check out this range map: http://nas2.er.usgs.gov/viewer/GetS...tle=Alligator mississippiensis &speciesid=221 You're moaning and complaining about a NATIVE predator reclaiming part of its original range, claiming that it's an "exotic"!

pitbulllady

Very well stated. A couple of years ago when s. Florida experienced a couple of unusually cold winters, it put a huge dent in the python population. The pythons over 6 feet long that were captured were sick and almost all died within a short period from the infections. I am sure that in a few million years, they probably could adapt - and they would be the same size as our boas out west, about 3 feet or so. Of course, that would also mean eliminating most of the predators that already occupy that niche.

 

[freedumbdclxvi]

NO, these "things" CANNOT "adapt"! There have indeed been several scientific studies to look into just that very scenario, including one conducted right here in South Carolina, where I live, which have conclusively proven that tropical species like pythons CAN NOT ADAPT and WILL DIE when exposed to even OUR relatively mild winters, which pale in comparison to what you experience in OK, on the Great Plains! These snakes have absolutely NO hibernation mechanism whatsoever, and in fact, do just the opposite of what would be needed to survive a winter, moving out into the open, where it's much colder, rather than going underground. This is why reproducing populations of these animals, as opposed to random escapees or even deliberately abandoned animals, are limited to just ONE area of the US-southern Florida. This is the only habitat which has a climate that comes even close to what these snakes are adapted to. I've kept and bred large, tropical constrictors since I was 12, probably for much longer than you've even been alive, so I can claim what you cannot: first-hand, hands-on, up-close, real EXPERIENCE working with them. Experience vs. hearsay, rumors and wives' tales is pretty much a non-contest there.
And HERE'S a big news flash for ya: Alligators are NATIVE to the southern part of Oklahoma! Check out this range map: http://nas2.er.usgs.gov/viewer/GetS...tle=Alligator mississippiensis &speciesid=221 You're moaning and complaining about a NATIVE predator reclaiming part of its original range, claiming that it's an "exotic"!

pitbulllady

Very well said

 

[pitbulllady]

Well, it IS about invasives isn't it? I mean what dog is prepared to deal with a constrictor big enough to kill it?

---------- Post added 09-14-2013 at 10:25 AM ----------


I AGREE with you! Children are no longer safe from large invasives. I think FL should go back to managing alligator populations too.

You DO know that Florida DOES have an alligator hunting season to manage the alligator populations, right? Children ARE safe from the invasive exotics because children, unlike a dog, are highly UNlikely to attack a large snake in the first place, and the snake is NOT going to go after a child. Here's information on FL's statewide Alligator Harvest and Nuisance Alligator Removal Programs: http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/managed/alligator/harvest/ . In fact, MOST states within the range of the American Alligator have management/hunting seasons in place. Note that "managing" does NOT mean "elimination", so if you're one of those folks who are just terrified at the thought of big predators still existing on this planet, and cringe at the thought that alligators are actually native to your own state, you're out of luck. Stop relying on the popular media, the Federal government and Wayne Pacelli for your "information" about snakes, gators and other reptiles!

pitbulllady

---------- Post added 09-14-2013 at 03:53 PM ----------

Very well stated. A couple of years ago when s. Florida experienced a couple of unusually cold winters, it put a huge dent in the python population. The pythons over 6 feet long that were captured were sick and almost all died within a short period from the infections. I am sure that in a few million years, they probably could adapt - and they would be the same size as our boas out west, about 3 feet or so. Of course, that would also mean eliminating most of the predators that already occupy that niche.

In the SC study, carried out by UGA Biologists, the snakes were placed in a large outdoor enclosure and had access to heated underground burrows, but when the weather got cold, the Burms avoided the burrows and actually moved out into the open, where it was coldest, doing just the opposite of what a native snake would do. As a result, every single python in the study died, either freezing to death directly or succumbing to respiratory infections and major body organ failure later. This is behavior that helps them survive in a climate where it NEVER gets cold, but is highly detrimental to surviving in a temperate climate, and one needs to keep in mind that South Carolina's winters are nowhere NEAR as severe as those on the Great Plains, not even Oklahoma's or Texas'. We rarely get snow here at all; on average we get a measurable snowfall once ever 10 years, so if a tropical species cannot survive to reproduce here, it's definitely NOT going to establish a breeding population in Midwest or Great Plains! It would, as you pointed out, take millions of years for a tropical species to adapt to our climate, IF it even could, but given that these snakes have not expanding their natural range in Asia to include cooler, more temperate climates, and they've been there for millions of years already, it seems highly unlikely. I do suspect that the east coast of the US is in for an especially nasty winter this coming season, that will probably make for a lot of casualties in the FL python population. We've had an unusually cool summer, and the leaves are already changing and falling from the trees, in mid-September, more than a month earlier than usual for here.

pitbulllady

 

[lancej]

In the SC study, carried out by UGA Biologists, the snakes were placed in a large outdoor enclosure and had access to heated underground burrows, but when the weather got cold, the Burms avoided the burrows and actually moved out into the open, where it was coldest, doing just the opposite of what a native snake would do. As a result, every single python in the study died, either freezing to death directly or succumbing to respiratory infections and major body organ failure later. This is behavior that helps them survive in a climate where it NEVER gets cold, but is highly detrimental to surviving in a temperate climate, and one needs to keep in mind that South Carolina's winters are nowhere NEAR as severe as those on the Great Plains, not even Oklahoma's or Texas'. We rarely get snow here at all; on average we get a measurable snowfall once ever 10 years, so if a tropical species cannot survive to reproduce here, it's definitely NOT going to establish a breeding population in Midwest or Great Plains! It would, as you pointed out, take millions of years for a tropical species to adapt to our climate, IF it even could, but given that these snakes have not expanding their natural range in Asia to include cooler, more temperate climates, and they've been there for millions of years already, it seems highly unlikely. I do suspect that the east coast of the US is in for an especially nasty winter this coming season, that will probably make for a lot of casualties in the FL python population. We've had an unusually cool summer, and the leaves are already changing and falling from the trees, in mid-September, more than a month earlier than usual for here.

pitbulllady

If you want to see tax dollars at work, look at the ridiculous study that the USGS did which stated that Burmese pythons would eventually make it up to Washington, D.C. I don't think that any real science was used in that "study" at all! I can't even see them establishing in Orlando, FL, because even that is too temperate of a climate for them.

---------- Post added 09-14-2013 at 05:05 PM ----------

Stop relying on the popular media, the Federal government and Wayne Pacelli for your "information" about snakes, gators and other reptiles!

This quote had me rolling on the floor!

 

[The Snark]

"Stop relying on the popular media, the Federal government and Wayne Pacelli for your "information" about snakes, gators and other reptiles!"
If I may add to that, one of our tribes elders comments when discussing the Rosebud reservation, a tiny snip of land rife with crime and alcoholism, "We relied on the federal government in that past and look what that got us."

But anyway, this invasives thing is fascinating and I'd like to hear more. With reptiles I'm operating on information from the distant past where the adaptability of an animal is in direct relation to it's metabolic rate. With the reptiles, compared to other animals well studied for their invasive abilities -as rats-, their invasive ability based on adaptation is glacial. A hundred thousand years just to cope with a few degrees drop in temperature. One herpetologist conjectured the king cobra's ability to change color during the hot season probably took a million years to evolve, more likely several million.

Worries over the Rock Python spreading up the eastern seaboard is outright hilarious to me. Look at the eastern seaboard. A lot of it won't even be habitable in a hundred years or two what with the damage humans are doing. If anything, the survival of invasives would be an interesting indicator of extremely drastic changes in the weather.

Come to think of it, we need to come up with a different term besides glacial for denoting an extremely long period of time since we've managed to severely damage over half the non arctic glaciers in the past 100 years.

 

[pperrotta03]

Here in NJ, I just found out that a friend of a guy I talk to all the time was moving and simply released it. In a city. It was found near a burger king. 10 foot python! And I know ive met the guy too, but no arrests have been made. Its really sad that there are people especially in the hobby that are that irresponsible. People around here are all afraid of snakes now!! Its crazy that people dont realize that most of the world is not dominated by humans (yet) there is still so much more to be discovered and there are always going to be predators like this is the wild. Sad that people dont realize this

tappy tappa taparoo

 

[lancej]

A majority of the invasive reptiles in Florida have only established themselves in human altered habitats. In fact, a lot of them have taken over areas that the natives could not exist in anymore because the habitat is too altered. They are able to establish because the native competition has been extirpated already.

 

[pperrotta03]

A majority of the invasive reptiles in Florida have only established themselves in human altered habitats. In fact, a lot of them have taken over areas that the natives could not exist in anymore because the habitat is too altered. They are able to establish because the native competition has been extirpated already.

What kind of human altered environments do they seek?

tappy tappa taparoo

 

[lancej]

Subdivisions, shopping malls, canals, warehouses, roadsides, neighborhoods, etc., etc.