Roach debate

[Enki40]

I would use B. discoidalis over B. dubia any day; problem is it's hard to find pure B. discoidalis nowadays.

As a feeder, what makes them superior to B. dubia?

 

[ZephAmp]

As a feeder, what makes them superior to B. dubia?

There are several trade-offs, but my primary points are these:
1. Nymph shape. Dubias have nymphs with wide pronotums that amphibians may have a difficult time fitting into their mouths. Discoid nymphs have much skinnier pronotums.
2. Rate of reproduction. Hands down, a colony of Blaberus discoidalis will outproduce a colony of dubias.
3. Size. Although I understand that one might want a smaller feeder roach, this isn't the case here. Newborn discoids can be smaller than newborns dubias, meaning that you're getting a wider spectrum of nymph sizes for feeding off since they eventually grow into bigger adults.
4. Discoids don't play dead. Although they're not as active as say, B. lateralis, they don't lock up as much or sit there playing dead instead of attracting whatever you're feeding them to's attention.

 

[Enki40]

Thanx for the insight.

Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/user/moose9900#p/u/4/dKqpoAE6xTA

There are several trade-offs, but my primary points are these:
1. Nymph shape. Dubias have nymphs with wide pronotums that amphibians may have a difficult time fitting into their mouths. Discoid nymphs have much skinnier pronotums.
2. Rate of reproduction. Hands down, a colony of Blaberus discoidalis will outproduce a colony of dubias.
3. Size. Although I understand that one might want a smaller feeder roach, this isn't the case here. Newborn discoids can be smaller than newborns dubias, meaning that you're getting a wider spectrum of nymph sizes for feeding off since they eventually grow into bigger adults.
4. Discoids don't play dead. Although they're not as active as say, B. lateralis, they don't lock up as much or sit there playing dead instead of attracting whatever you're feeding them to's attention.

 

[blash]

Sometimes you have to think outside the box.

Yes, B. lateralis, N. cinerea and B. dubia are the most used feeder roaches. But they have their negative aspects, too.

Like for example the Lobsters and Lateralis are smelly. :barf: I kept like 2000 of each in really dry, clean boxes but i could not bear that odour. If you have ever smelled a human corpse in the summer, you know what i am talking about.

But i have found a really good alternative. They are called Phoetalia pallida. For me they act like Lobsters or Lats, they swarm, they are really fast and they even look the same. But they do not smell as bad.

This is my colony feeding on some apple.


As for the Hissers, i used them as feeders, once. I gave a big one to my huge Lasiodora parahybana. And guess what, it instantly injured its leg in the fight with the roach. No thanks, never again.

Big feeders: Blaptica dubia
Small feeders: Phoetalia pallida

 

[dtknow]

Ok, I've posted this to multiple threads, but I will add my personal experience with lobsters that they can and will infest if given enough opportunity.

They can breed at room temp. They are live bearing-so not especially sensitive to low humidity either.(which as others mentioned they can find easily in almost any home). You don't need to be a slob to feed them-a few wayward stains/crumbs and various other things in your home would suffice. I lost a few of these in the house prior to leaving for college and my folks and I were finding newborn nymphs(!) and others of various sizes for about 2 years after I sold my colony. I know I used to think that lobsters could not infest but I've definetly changed my mind. In fact, Blatta lateralis seems more needy of humidity than lobsters.

If it weren't for this fact and the fact above mentioned that they smell-they'd be perfect feeders.

 

[beckett5000]

too much humidity and not enough ventalation will make lobsters smell. I have never had any trouble with smells out of my colony, or infestations. It all comes down to you have to know how to take care of them. They must have a steady food source if there's an infestation. My colony eats 2 cups of roach food a day, and if they ever run out you can watch them eat each other.

 

[Introvertebrate]

I've read elsewhere that feeding lats (and perhaps lobsters) cat food instead of dog food changes the smell from tolerable to less tolerable. I suppose its the food that's smelling, not the roaches.

 

[dtknow]

Beckett: That is correct. However, nothing you can do can make them as clean as dubia IME. Sure-you can also make a dubia colony smell bad in the same manner. But lobsters always have a kind of funk to them.

Also-yes lobster roaches are voracious eaters at high temps. At lower temps-not so much(and they can survive low temps just fine for short periods-one made it out into our garage and was found alive and moving along slowly). In fact-their willingness to cannibalize each other as well as eat damn near anything makes them more likely to be great at infesting your house. Fortunately this means that trapping them with glue traps is easy. But the same can be said for standard pest roaches.

 

[H. laoticus]

My B. lateralis could not multiply/survive without added heat and when they received very low humidity. I went out of town for about 2 weeks and came back to see my colony dwindling. I don't know if it was one or both of these factors that contributed to their deaths, but I lost maybe half the population. After that, I installed an infrared heat bulb that pointed directly at the food source which stopped the mold problem I had and helped considerably with any odors as well as upping the temp. Also, every week or so, I'd pour water onto the other side of the tub where I have some coco-fiber piled. My colony has exploded and gotten back to a strong number.

By the way, very cool pic, Blash.

 

[beckett5000]

Beckett: That is correct. However, nothing you can do can make them as clean as dubia IME. Sure-you can also make a dubia colony smell bad in the same manner. But lobsters always have a kind of funk to them.

Also-yes lobster roaches are voracious eaters at high temps. At lower temps-not so much(and they can survive low temps just fine for short periods-one made it out into our garage and was found alive and moving along slowly). In fact-their willingness to cannibalize each other as well as eat damn near anything makes them more likely to be great at infesting your house. Fortunately this means that trapping them with glue traps is easy. But the same can be said for standard pest roaches.

No doubt they can survive in the colder temperatures, but they are a TROPICAL species of roach. They're not going to want to hang around in the cold. As soon as the temperature outside is hot enough for them, they are gone. My lobsters have never had an order, nor will they ever have an order. It's all about ventalation and keeping moisture out of the tank/tub or what ever is being used to house them. I never said they would be as clean as dubias. They have much more waste than dubias because they eat ten times what dubias can eat. I have to clean my lobsters tank once a mounth, and the dubias tank gets cleaned the same time, even though I could let the dubias go for many weeks, if not mounths, more befor needing to clean them out.

 

[dtknow]

I wish their was evidence to back up the fact that these roaches would be just dying to go outside to hold up the ideals ignored by some of their other roach brethren. I have not found that to be the case. Roaches don't have a concept of inside/outside...only of places they can easily get to that are suitable for them, which for many of our temperate species just happens to be outside during the summer.(it would be mighty difficult for a roach in our house to get outside. Perhaps I should have left the patio door open and kindly pleaded with them to go).

Although we do not know the origins of many of the pest roaches-at least some seem to be subtropical in origin. Now, lobsters might not be able to evolve to become a truly pestiferous species(though with some selection I wouldn't put it against them)...but to say they cannot infest(or at least, persist and reproduce inside the home) is wrong. And your home need not be a pigstye either.

 

[beckett5000]

I have never know of anyone having to call the exterminater for lobster roaches. The first apartment I ever lived in had some junkie people living across the hall from me that brought in pest roaches and gave them to everyone. it took six mounths and three trips from the orkin man to get rid of them compleatly. Will lobsters live in your house? Yes they will until they find a way out. Noones house is perfectly sealed from the outside. They will find a way to get outside or eventually die off.

 

[dtknow]

I believe their is one case of someone who ended up calling an exterminator...but I'd have to look through old threads on here to find it. It doesn't happen often, thats for sure. That all being said pest roaches do not necessarily need an exterminator to get rid of them. If your house is clean and you don't have messy neighbors(which causes a constant onslaught of emigrating roaches to everyone nearby) you probably won't get an infestation. I have seen a few German cockroaches in our home over the course of the time we've lived here(brand new house). They were adults, never saw more than one, and many were in the process of keeling over. No doubt they came in on groceries-but they failed to establish themselves. As for these escapee lobster roaches-they did well in a home that thwarted even the most pestiferous species. At first I thought perhaps my colony was still having escapees-but a year after getting rid of the colony and still squishing lobsters of all age classes in the bathroom and under the kitchen trash(found no other pest roach species!)....I realized they were indeed breeding. I too was fond of my colony and was adamant that they would not cause any trouble.

Again, not sure why lobsters would be so dead set on getting out when they can live and breed well enough inside. I'm pretty confident that if we didn't kill every one we found and continued baiting/looking for them we'd still have a few lobsters running around in our house.

 

[beckett5000]

The only reason they would rather be outside is to find a nice compost heap in the summer. That's where they are found in nature. They love the extream heat and the heap gives the plenty of food and water. I have been keeping them for years and any that may have escaped are never found or seen again. Maybe it's just where I live being the reason I never see them again. The winters are short and summers are long. It does make me wonder why they linger around some peeps homes and others like myself never have a problem with it. dtknow thanks for the debate and sharing your personal experance with us. It has my mind wondering.

 

[blash]

As for the catfood / dogfood / food makes the roaches smell theory:

I have 2 dogs. I feed them the same dogfood for 6 years now.

I fed the exactly same dogfood to roach species including: Blaptica dubia, Phoetalia pallida, Grompardorinha portentosa, Grompardorinha oblongonata, Nauphoeta cinerea, Blatta lateralis, Elliptorhina chopardi, Eublaberus spec., Oxyhaloa deusta and Rhyparobia maderae.

But the only ones that smelled really, really bad were the Lobsters and the Lateralis. So i can not back up the theory of the food making the roaches smell.

 

[beckett5000]

I belive it's the humidity making them smell. I keep my tanks and the room very dry around 20 percent humidity. I know alot of people say it's not good for the roaches, but I keep water in there at all times and they seem to do just fine.

 

[Introvertebrate]

As for the catfood / dogfood / food makes the roaches smell theory..........I cannot back up the theory of the food making the roaches smell.

That's fine. I was just quoting other posts. I did a search on your Phoetalia pallida species. They do get mentioned now and then:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showpost.php?p=889726&postcount=2

 

[H. laoticus]

I belive it's the humidity making them smell. I keep my tanks and the room very dry around 20 percent humidity. I know alot of people say it's not good for the roaches, but I keep water in there at all times and they seem to do just fine.

Ever since I placed a heat lamp directly facing the food area where it used to mold and create mush, the tub doesn't smell anymore. That goes for both my B. lateralis and B. dubia. I'm not saying it proves anything, but it has helped me tremendously with odors and molding.

 

[Stylopidae]

Not all roaches are created equal. Those that can infest and take over have already established themselves, like Blattella sp. If you've ever kept N. cinerea you'd know they have a voracious appetite and will eat their own young and siblings if they are freshly molted. Assuming you do not put a buffet out in your walls for them, they will turn to cannibalism.

There are also nutritional requirements to consider. Some species do just fine on paper, others don't. I doubt cannibalism would be a significant factor. I'd believe they're able to infest if and only if someone could actually show me evidence of prolonged lobster roach breeding in a temperate household.

I accidentally released about half a colony of lobster roaches in my house at one point which probably numbered in the thousands...they all died despite the fact there were way more than enough to start a colony.

 

[Introvertebrate]

Would it be possible for a tropical species to 'morph' into a temperate pest species, or have I been watching too many science fiction movies?